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Balkman32 · Post #1 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:15 pm

http://newsok.com/article/3898350

Mayberry has some very good points. I don't think you can Grade this Trade until the 15/16 season. Sammy acquired a ton of assets.

One thing that I believe that is undervalued is Perk. Big Perk has two years left on his deal. If he is on the Thunder's roster for the 15/16 season at a huge discount of what he is making now, that could be a difference maker. Perk will be a 12 year vet at this time at the age of 30. To him, he is close to home and on a contender every year. He is a Leader, because he has been there before. Perk and Fish both have rings those two are players that help keep everyone on track. They are not here to fill up the stat sheet. Ibaka would not be the player he is today w/o Perk. That said. If on the 15/16 roster are a cheap Perk (either replacing or assisting w/ the Collison role), a starter in Steven Adams w/ 40 double doubles, and a starter in Lamb averaging between 12-16 pts, plus all of the other assets how can you hate this deal?

Podirk · Post #2 » by **Podirk** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:21 pm

Yeah, that's about my thoughts since the trade happened. Martin filling in last year was big to stay a contender (stinking Russ injury). The TPE that came from Martin should be able to net a good player or two this summer.

Adams and Lamb will have growing pains but with KD and RW and now Jackson emerging as a nice piece along with Ibaka.

The trade gave the Thunder the opportunity to balance out the roster a bit (opposed to having 3 max level ball handlers) and the result of the trade isn't even close to complete. Abrines may be a year or two away from joining the Thunder, and the Dallas pick still gets forgotten, could be a nice pickup or a good thing to spice up a trade.

HeartSouloma · Post #3 » by **HeartSouloma** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:45 pm

Until OKC win's a championship, I would take back everything I had said about the JH trade. In my opinion Sam Presti could have made a better deal with the JH trade.

Balkman32 · Post #4 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:31 pm

What did you want?

Podirk · Post #5 » by **Podirk** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:47 pm

KDfan35 wrote:Until OKC win's a championship, I would take back everything I had said about the JH trade. In my opinion Sam Presti could have made a better deal with the JH trade.

Cause the Thunder were guaranteed to win a ring with Harden??

He looked at a few deals (some of which were talked about) but Presti wanted to much or wasn't willing to give up more.

koolcrud · Post #6 » by **koolcrud** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:08 pm

Podirk wrote:
KDfan35 wrote:Until OKC win's a championship, I would take back everything I had said about the JH trade. In my opinion Sam Presti could have made a better deal with the JH trade.

Cause the Thunder were guaranteed to win a ring with Harden??

He looked at a few deals (some of which were talked about) but Presti wanted to much or wasn't willing to give up more.

A Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka core was guaranteed to win at least one ring, yes. Is there another example of the 2nd best player in the league, a top 3 point guard, the best shooting guard and the best shot blocker failing to win rings? We flushed a dynasty down the toilet over financial issues, but at least we're still contenders.

Podirk · Post #7 » by **Podirk** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:10 pm

koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:
KDfan35 wrote:Until OKC win's a championship, I would take back everything I had said about the JH trade. In my opinion Sam Presti could have made a better deal with the JH trade.

Cause the Thunder were guaranteed to win a ring with Harden??

He looked at a few deals (some of which were talked about) but Presti wanted to much or wasn't willing to give up more.

A Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka core was guaranteed to win at least one ring, yes. Is there another example of the 2nd best player in the league, a top 3 point guard, the best shooting guard and the best shot blocker failing to win rings? We flushed a dynasty down the toilet over financial issues, but at least we're still contenders.

Then what the heck happened in the 11/12 season???

Harden WOULD NOT have got the mins or touches he got in Hou. Now I have no doubt they would have had a HUGE shot at it...but guaranteed...not one bit.

koolcrud · Post #8 » by **koolcrud** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:36 pm

Podirk wrote:
koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:
Cause the Thunder were guaranteed to win a ring with Harden??

He looked at a few deals (some of which were talked about) but Presti wanted to much or wasn't willing to give up more.

A Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka core was guaranteed to win at least one ring, yes. Is there another example of the 2nd best player in the league, a top 3 point guard, the best shooting guard and the best shot blocker failing to win rings? We flushed a dynasty down the toilet over financial issues, but at least we're still contenders.

Then what the heck happened in the 11/12 season???

Harden WOULD NOT have got the mins or touches he got in Hou. Now I have no doubt they would have had a HUGE shot at it...but guaranteed...not one bit.

KD was 23, RW was 23, SI was 22, JH was 22...and they still won the West. They needed another year or two maximum to bring it home. It was just a money thing. As I said, thankfully we're still contenders, and hopefully we get one.

Balkman32 · Post #9 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:58 pm

koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:
KDfan35 wrote:Until OKC win's a championship, I would take back everything I had said about the JH trade. In my opinion Sam Presti could have made a better deal with the JH trade.

Cause the Thunder were guaranteed to win a ring with Harden??

He looked at a few deals (some of which were talked about) but Presti wanted to much or wasn't willing to give up more.

A Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka core was guaranteed to win at least one ring, yes. Is there another example of the 2nd best player in the league, a top 3 point guard, the best shooting guard and the best shot blocker failing to win rings? We flushed a dynasty down the toilet over financial issues, but at least we're still contenders.

It is unfair to say flushed a DYNASTY. The Thunder might have just completed their starting lineup for the next 4 years in acquiring Lamb and Adams. IMO Lamb's game is better matched for Durant and Westbrook. Let Lamb get into the season and lets see what he does. He will be the starter by 14/15, w/ Thabo getting big money next season.

Balkman32 · Post #10 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:04 pm

koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:
koolcrud wrote:A Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka core was guaranteed to win at least one ring, yes. Is there another example of the 2nd best player in the league, a top 3 point guard, the best shooting guard and the best shot blocker failing to win rings? We flushed a dynasty down the toilet over financial issues, but at least we're still contenders.

Then what the heck happened in the 11/12 season???

Harden WOULD NOT have got the mins or touches he got in Hou. Now I have no doubt they would have had a HUGE shot at it...but guaranteed...not one bit.

KD was 23, RW was 23, SI was 22, JH was 22...and they still won the West. They needed another year or two maximum to bring it home. It was just a money thing. As I said, thankfully we're still contenders, and hopefully we get one.

Don't get me wrong I hated that the Thunder were forced to trade him. But, they added Martin who was a very good filler. If Westbrook didn't go down I think we would have seen the Thunder in the finals. But, with the additions of Lamb and Adams and their cheap 4 year deals and less need for the ball in their hands they are better surrounding players for Westbrook and Durant than Harden was because he NEEDED the ball. I think Sammy made the best deal he could after Harden rejected the 4 years $56 million. I know he would have been forced to take the 4 years $60 million but you never know how Harden would have reacted to that deal when he could have received 5 years $80 million, he might have resented the Thunder. If you look at the Thunder way they deal with players they are very upfront. The Thunder could have paid him the 4 years $60 and traded him next season for a great wealth of talent. But, when they ink a player them ink them to keep them. That is why I believe Big Perk will finish his contract w/ the Thunder and sign another 3 year deal with the Thunder for about $7 million.

Sammy is one of the most respectable GM's in the league. You can actually believe this man!

Podirk · Post #11 » by **Podirk** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:17 pm

Balkman32 wrote:
koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:Then what the heck happened in the 11/12 season???

Harden WOULD NOT have got the mins or touches he got in Hou. Now I have no doubt they would have had a HUGE shot at it...but guaranteed...not one bit.

KD was 23, RW was 23, SI was 22, JH was 22...and they still won the West. They needed another year or two maximum to bring it home. It was just a money thing. As I said, thankfully we're still contenders, and hopefully we get one.

Don't get me wrong I hated that the Thunder were forced to trade him. But, they added Martin who was a very good filler. If Westbrook didn't go down I think we would have seen the Thunder in the finals. But, with the additions of Lamb and Adams and their cheap 4 year deals and less need for the ball in their hands they are better surrounding players for Westbrook and Durant than Harden was because he NEEDED the ball. I think Sammy made the best deal he could after Harden rejected the 4 years $56 million. I know he would have been forced to take the 4 years $60 million but you never know how Harden would have reacted to that deal when he could have received 5 years $80 million, he might have resented the Thunder. If you look at the Thunder way they deal with players they are very upfront. The Thunder could have paid him the 4 years $60 and traded him next season for a great wealth of talent. But, when they ink a player them ink them to keep them. That is why I believe Big Perk will finish his contract w/ the Thunder and sign another 3 year deal with the Thunder for about $7 million.

Sammy is one of the most respectable GM's in the league. You can actually believe this man!

Very good points!

More to the Presti side, he rewards players who are gym rats and defense first players. Reid from 11 draft comes to mind as the most recent.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Chalky White · Post #12 » by **Chalky White** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:03 am

Balkman32 wrote:It is unfair to say flushed a DYNASTY.

Completely fair.

The Thunder might have just completed their starting lineup for the next 4 years in acquiring Lamb and Adams.

Perhaps, but such a lineup pales to that of a Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka, which was his point.

IMO Lamb's game is better matched for Durant and Westbrook.

Your opinion is wrong. Lamb is inferior to Harden in every tangible aspect of the game, and significantly so.

Let Lamb get into the season and lets see what he does. He will be the starter by 14/15, w/ Thabo getting big money next season.

Lamb may develop into a solid bench player, maybe even a solid starter, but I have my doubts as to whether he'll develop into the type player we need him to be.

Chalky White · Post #13 » by **Chalky White** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:05 am

Balkman32 wrote:
koolcrud wrote:
Podirk wrote:Then what the heck happened in the 11/12 season???

Harden WOULD NOT have got the mins or touches he got in Hou. Now I have no doubt they would have had a HUGE shot at it...but guaranteed...not one bit.

KD was 23, RW was 23, SI was 22, JH was 22...and they still won the West. They needed another year or two maximum to bring it home. It was just a money thing. As I said, thankfully we're still contenders, and hopefully we get one.

Don't get me wrong I hated that the Thunder were forced to trade him. But, they added Martin who was a very good filler. If Westbrook didn't go down I think we would have seen the Thunder in the finals. But, with the additions of Lamb and Adams and their cheap 4 year deals and less need for the ball in their hands they are better surrounding players for Westbrook and Durant than Harden was because he NEEDED the ball. I think Sammy made the best deal he could after Harden rejected the 4 years $56 million. I know he would have been forced to take the 4 years $60 million but you never know how Harden would have reacted to that deal when he could have received 5 years $80 million, he might have resented the Thunder. If you look at the Thunder way they deal with players they are very upfront. The Thunder could have paid him the 4 years $60 and traded him next season for a great wealth of talent. But, when they ink a player them ink them to keep them. That is why I believe Big Perk will finish his contract w/ the Thunder and sign another 3 year deal with the Thunder for about $7 million.

Sammy is one of the most respectable GM's in the league. You can actually believe this man!

I understand you feel the need to rationalize the Harden trade, but there's no need to make stuff up.

Balkman32 · Post #14 » by **Balkman32** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:19 am

What was the offer Harden rejected then?

Balkman32 · Post #15 » by **Balkman32** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:44 am

Sorry $54 million

Post #16 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:47 pm

Balkman32 wrote:What was the offer Harden rejected then?

I don't believe that anything was publicly confirmed about him rejecting an offer. I do kind of remember him responding to a question about why he turned down an offer (maybe 4/56) by saying something along the lines of "Man, I wish that was the number".

Post #17 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 pm

To show the amount of conflicting (and therefore most likely made up) information:

4/52
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... sion-Offer

4/54
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... om-Thunder

4/53
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... th-Thunder

Balkman32 · Post #18 » by **Balkman32** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:08 pm

I am not saying I wanted to trade Harden. But, this trade can not be graded now. It is unfair to Lamb and Adams. We have no idea what these guys will become. Lamb can be like Reggie Miller or Chris Douglas Roberts and Adams can be like Bill Walton or Byron Mullens.

Plus we might be able to keep Reggie Jackson if he decides winning is more important than money.

Post #19 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:08 pm

Although I'm not in the camp of the people saying that the Harden trade decimated the franchise (I'm more thinking that it was a necessary trade and that we got what we could), I really don't buy into the "you can't grade the trade until 5-8 years from now" logic. For example, if you traded a good young player with a lot of potential, for one of the last picks in the draft, and then that pick turned out to Manu Ginobili, I still don't think it was a good trade because they could've gotten more or just kept the original player. The drafting of Ginobili (luck or skill) is separate from the acquiring of the initial asset. My opinion of this would probably change on draft day or at least close enough to the draft that you're targeting a specific guy.

Balkman32 · Post #20 » by **Balkman32** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:23 pm

I think dont think we need to wait 5-8 years. But, let Adams play a season and a half. Remember Harden's 2nd year he only avg. 12 pts. a game. Then 16 pts a game. If Lamb gets 8-10 pts a game this year then avg. 15pts next year, is that good enough for you.