Luis Scola Trade

Post #101 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:42 pm

So, in essence, you don't really want to do what Red did by having one of his best players come off the bench, a la Hondo. You just want Granger off the bench.

I'm not opposed to that. Ultimately, though, we don't play a system of PG, SG, SF, PF, C. I'd almost simplify it to:
PG/SG, Wing, Wing/Big Skill, Big Skill, Rim Defender

Ultimately, I'd put Hill, Watson, Sloan, and possibly Lance in the PG/SG position. Lance, PG, Granger, Solo, and OJ as Wings. Copeland, West, and Scola as Big Skill, and Hibbert and Mahinmi as Rim Defenders. To me, it kind of goes a bit more to the Larry Bird style of "5 guys that can play multiple positions". As such, I don't think it matters too awful much if Lance or Danny is starting, as Paul will still guard the best non-center player on the other team, and will likely still play the same spots offensively.

I understand and mostly agree with the concept of Lance as needed as a starter for his additional ball-handling skills. However, I could see it more-so for the bench, too. Ultimately, we have hopes that Paul can upgrade his ball handling and be an additional distributor in the starting lineup. However, sub in the bench, and you have Watson as a ball-handler, and then really no one else. Wouldn't it help to have Lance as a 2nd there, rather than be the 3rd on offense?

8305 · Post #102 » by **8305** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:55 pm

The biggest agruement for Lance starting might that he is the better defender. By seasons end last year Lance looked to be a better defender than Danny ever was.

Early in his career Danny was a legit 3 position defender and a good one but, once he became the primary scorer several years back his defense fell off. Not saying that wasn't understandable given the minutes he was playing and extraordinary offensive responsiblity he had. The defensive presence he brought early in his career really hasn't been seen on a consistent for some time now.

By the end of the year Lance was showing a defensive capability that reminded me of Andre Iguadala. It will be interesting to see if the same effort is there this year but if his head is in it early I think it will be very difficult for Danny to unseat him in a fair competition.

Wizop · Post #103 » by **Wizop** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:01 pm

I really haven't made up my mind. I suppose the first question is are we making a hockey substitution with 5 players coming off the bench. if we are, I think Danny and Paul have to be the first unit because Lance and Copeland are the second unit. if you start Lance and Paul, you don't have a shooting guard on your second unit as Granger and Copeland shouldn't play together. but it we are not bringing 5 players off the bench together, then I think we are rotating Lance, Danny, and Paul on the wing and it really doesn't matter who starts except for ego and sixth man of the year eligibility.

I think the Red Auerbach system would be to start Lance and bring just Danny off the bench at the 6 minute time out for Lance with Paul moving to the 2 then at the 3 minute time out, you'd bring Lance back for Paul. you could also start Paul at the two, Danny at the three, and bring Lance in for Paul, but the Auerbach system would be to bring the better player off the bench. the trick would be to convince Danny that not starting was a sign he was the better player.

Post #104 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 1:05 am

Un-sticky to the board.

mikepacernation · Post #105 » by **mikepacernation** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 1:50 am

Damn the heat got Oden..... if he's healthy and can play I feel like they might 3 peat

Reaper_ · Post #106 » by **Reaper_** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 2:40 am

No worries for Oden, he is disabled anyway, waste of salary.

OnFire · Post #107 » by **OnFire** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 2:42 am

mikepacernation wrote:Damn the heat got Oden..... if he's healthy and can play I feel like they might 3 peat

makes me wonder if we should have made
a strong push to sign him, if just to take
away an option from MIA and other contenders.

what MIA offered couldn't have been more
than what we could – they're more capped-out.
but, in my mind, it would have been worth
it. he could work his way into shape and
supplant Mahinmi in the rotation.

hmmmm … nonetheless, we're fielding a
very good team this season and it would just
make "going for it" (in Vogel's words) all that
much sweeter.

mikepacernation · Post #108 » by **mikepacernation** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 2:45 am

Hopefully lol but if he is healthy then we got problems

JeffFosters · Post #109 » by **JeffFosters** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:09 am

mikepacernation wrote:Hopefully lol but if he is healthy then we got problems

Massive 'if'. If he does contribute to the Heat, it'll be in 2014/15.

Post #110 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:13 pm

jarryd3107 wrote:
mikepacernation wrote:Hopefully lol but if he is healthy then we got problems

Massive 'if'. If he does contribute to the Heat, it'll be in 2014/15.

Yup. They're not even projecting him to play at all until after Christmas. He still needs a ton of rehab. He's just now able to even step on a basketball court for extremely low-intensity workouts/drills.

Wizop · Post #111 » by **Wizop** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:57 pm

wish someone would pay me the NBA minimum salary to go to the gym every day.

jcsunsfan · Post #112 » by **jcsunsfan** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:38 pm

Just an update. As of this moment Plumlee is the Suns starting center opening night. For him it's a rare opportunity.

EuroPacer · Post #113 » by **EuroPacer** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:14 pm

Yeah I heard that somewhere, I am pleased for the lad, he would have been a fourth big here and now it looks like he is going to get plenty of time on a tank-team, which will be excellent for his development (although not for his mental health!)

If he can grow to be a solid NBA big he could have a good career ahead of him.

jcsunsfan · Post #114 » by **jcsunsfan** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:45 am

18 pts 15 Rebs and 3 blocks in his first start. Hasn't he surpasses his entire season totals for last year in his first game. Wow. You guys really had him hidden.

Post #115 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:10 am

jcsunsfan wrote:18 pts 15 Rebs and 3 blocks in his first start. Hasn't he surpasses his entire season totals for last year in his first game. Wow. You guys really had him hidden.

Much different situations. He's getting playing time and they are willing to play with his flaws as there is no expectations for the Suns one bit. The bottom line isn't exactly what he does in some games, but who'd be more useful against the Bulls, Knicks or Heat in the playoffs? It's obviously Scola.

I am happy for Plumlee, though. He was rock solid for the Pacers in the summer leagues and dominated some games the past 2 seasons. He's not going to keep up those numbers, obviously, but i do think he will have a solid NBA career. I always liked to compare him to Jeff Foster, who as a rookie barely saw the court, but learned the game and became a very solid player. Plumlee is a smart kid who came from 4 years with Duke and had a full season practicing with one of the NBA's elite teams.

People laughed at Bird when he chose him, but there's a reason why he's got the job he has. The guy is very rarely wrong.

jcsunsfan · Post #116 » by **jcsunsfan** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:35 am

Grang33r wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:18 pts 15 Rebs and 3 blocks in his first start. Hasn't he surpasses his entire season totals for last year in his first game. Wow. You guys really had him hidden.

Much different situations. He's getting playing time and they are willing to play with his flaws as there is no expectations for the Suns one bit. The bottom line isn't exactly what he does in some games, but who'd be more useful against the Bulls, Knicks or Heat in the playoffs? It's obviously Scola.

I am happy for Plumlee, though. He was rock solid for the Pacers in the summer leagues and dominated some games the past 2 seasons. He's not going to keep up those numbers, obviously, but i do think he will have a solid NBA career. I always liked to compare him to Jeff Foster, who as a rookie barely saw the court, but learned the game and became a very solid player. Plumlee is a smart kid who came from 4 years with Duke and had a full season practicing with one of the NBA's elite teams.

People laughed at Bird when he chose him, but there's a reason why he's got the job he has. The guy is very rarely wrong.

Hope Scola works great for you. He is in the perfect place for him.

Plumlee has something going for him most other backup bigs don't. He is athletic as well as big strong smart and willing to learn. He is in a place where he will get minutes and the focus of the year is developing young players. Great opportunity.

Moooose · Post #117 » by **Moooose** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:11 am

^ I was shocked to see Miles hit a double double on his starting debut. There's a reason why Phoenix wanted him and I am glad that Phoenix will give him all the opportunities to develop.

Hope he stays in the starting lineup even when Alex Len comes back.

jowglenn · Post #118 » by **jowglenn** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:35 am

Can we start a running Miles Plumlee Watch thread? I'm a little worried now... if Plumlee explodes and Scola underwhelms.... then that might turn out to have been a horrid trade.

Wizop · Post #119 » by **Wizop** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:13 pm

there is always a danger in trading a young player for an older player you think is the missing piece for a playoff run. I've always thought that Bobby and Nancy Leonard lost their gm job when they traded Alex English to Denver to get McGinnis back. I once had a chance to say that to Donnie Walsh who reminded me that he was the Denver gm who engineered that trade from the other side.

EuroPacer · Post #120 » by **EuroPacer** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:26 pm

Plumlee wouldn't have posted those stats with the Pacers, he is in the right place for him to develop and that is actually very pleasing for all parties involved.

Sure in three years we might look back on it and shake our heads a bit, but for the here and now, it is good.

I am sure some of us have wondered what could have been had we kept Kawhi Leonard, traded DG for a top point guard?

Scenarios are there for fun, real life is a lot more realistic