Wiggins "average" in practices - How good will Wiggins be?

[Aaron It Out]

I never had a coach who told the team that one guy was superior to the others. Shabazz was also 20 years old, and never as highly regarded as Wiggins.

Which top NCAA D1 school did you play for?

[bizarro]

Wait, an 18 year old is having difficulty taking the reigns in his first practices at a major basketball program? I prefer respectful players to egomaniacs. And the coaching staff openly challenging him in the press is idiotic, almost cliche.

I scoff at the notion that Kobe was better at 18; he wasn't prepared either.

People rarely grasp that age and athleticism are the best predictors of NBA success. If an 18 year old is playing at a lower level than a 22 year old but is competing, his peak will be substantially higher. For example, if you think Damian Lillard (whom I like very much) will have half the NBA career as Anthony Davis after last year you are factually incorrect.

Young players need to develop. I know that the Bucks HQ is about the last place to recognize this but its the way things are.

I wholeheartedly say I agree with you and I disagree with you. Yes, 18 yr olds have a maturation. All 18 year olds are different. But, the special ones, the ones that are destined for things beyond most mere mortals are different in that inexplicable mysterious can't put a finger on it kind of way. Wiggins definitely has recipe ingredient number one: athletic prowess beyond most of his peers. But, he is obviously lacking in key ingredients in group number 2: mental toughness, charisma, maturity beyond his years, and (perhaps, I don't know the kid) 'want to'. The fact that coaches and scouts are labeling him as 'average' is a huge red flag.

You can tell from day 1 when a player has that 'IT'. I played soccer at a major D1 program for 3 years and I can verifiably say I didn't have the mental make-up to overcome my physical limitations. Ultimately, I quit the team and went on to other things. But, there were players who I knew from the first practice that were special beyond the other talent we had. One of them, a Ukrainian went on to win Freshman of the Year in our conference after only playing 9 games (!!) before an achilles injury. He was unreal from the first practice when he literally knocked me off my feet with a shot from 20 yards (!!). It was incredible. Several of these guys went on to the MLS and ultimately even got stints on the national team.

And, I agree with others who assert some are practice players and some are not...that we should wait until the games begin. I agree with this...to an extent. I'm officially in the non-believer camp right now. After going through the Timmy Thomas era I don't want a player who doesn't have the mental make-up to truly utilize his physical gifts. I'm not saying they are comparable prospects. What I am saying is I'm now watching Wiggins from the stance of 'Prove it to me'. I hope he proves me wrong.

[fansinceforever]

I'm sure many people have seen more of him than I have but from what I've seen I wouldn't be too worried. I watched him in the Mcdonalds game and he didn't seem to struggle to score against the highest level of talent there.

[mattg]

Some of us non-interns have been saying this for quite a while already. This is still an ideal draft to have high picks.

Yeah I got ripped on for bringing this up a while back.


Mostly I want to question the scout who is quoted in that article though, when he mentions John Wall dominating every time out because that's blatantly false. Wall rode the most ridiculous overhype train of all time to the #1 pick, in addition to struggling badly for the entire SEC and NCAA tournament portion of his schedule. He only dominated absolutely scrub teams. At the time, I also felt similar about Beasley. Never was too impressed with him and never felt like he was truly dominating games, merely getting all the offensive touches.

As for Randle DB, he's got some concerns. He's a monstrous athlete, but only when he has a full head of steam. He's not nearly as explosive from a standstill and doesn't have a great second jump. His length isn't great and he doesn't look like he'll ever be a quality defender at PF. You also don't know how Randle sees himself as a player. If he thinks he's a SF he'll be mediocre. He's got to see himself as a face up PF. If both he and wiggins reach their ceiling, then wiggins is significantly better.

[bizarro]

I never had a coach who told the team that one guy was superior to the others. Shabazz was also 20 years old, and never as highly regarded as Wiggins.

Which top NCAA D1 school did you play for?

You didn't need a coach to tell you these things. When a player has greatness, you know as a teammate. You gravitate toward it and it gives the team its lifeblood. The fact Wiggins is being called out is troubling. Regardless of agreeing on how it is being perpetrated in the media is kind of inconsequential. I feel for the kid...the improbably high and impractical expectations...but it's also great information.

[paulpressey25]

The awesome part about this Wiggins debate is we are going to get him on TV for must see college basketball for the next four months. So rather than a decade ago where we had to debate whether high schoolers Kwame or Darius Miles could walk and dribble at the same time, Wiggins will be heavily vetted.

[mattg]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding how wiggins is. He's more along the lines of the kid that needs to take an elbow to the face that pisses him off and then he dominates. Or when he's matched up against another great player that makes him take his game to the next level. Or people say stuff about him. That kind of thing.

It's why wiggins had excelled every time against elite competition or when he went berserk last year when the media said he was coasting in games and he responded by going for like 55 and 20 the next game. It would also explain why the Kansas staff has made their comments, knowing it will push him to be better. I think it's also why most people aren't terribly concerned about how it bodes for his NBA success. With how he's played against great competition in the past there seems little doubt that he'll step up in the NBA.

[Mikeylikesit]

I'm sure many people have seen more of him than I have but from what I've seen I wouldn't be too worried. I watched him in the Mcdonalds game and he didn't seem to struggle to score against the highest level of talent there.

No one struggles to score in those games. Those are all-star games with 0 defense. Jonathan Bender is the highest scoring player in McDonalds all american history. Who?

[bizarro]

I'm sure many people have seen more of him than I have but from what I've seen I wouldn't be too worried. I watched him in the Mcdonalds game and he didn't seem to struggle to score against the highest level of talent there.

No one struggles to score in those games. Those are all-star games with 0 defense. Jonathan Bender is the highest scoring player in McDonalds all american history. Who?

Hey now, in fairness to Bender...he was actually coming around to be a promising young talent. Then he had those injuries. The rest is, as they say, history. He could always shoot the lights out.

[Matches Malone]

Wiggins will never live up to LeBron. I don't even know why someone would even compare him to LeBron as it's not a fair comparison. I think Wiggins will show up this season but I think he won't be looked at as a sure fire #1 pick like he's been touted to be.

[Mikeylikesit]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding how wiggins is. He's more along the lines of the kid that needs to take an elbow to the face that pisses him off and then he dominates. Or when he's matched up against another great player that makes him take his game to the next level. Or people say stuff about him. That kind of thing.

It's why wiggins had excelled every time against elite competition or when he went berserk last year when the media said he was coasting in games and he responded by going for like 55 and 20 the next game. It would also explain why the Kansas staff has made their comments, knowing it will push him to be better. I think it's also why most people aren't terribly concerned about how it bodes for his NBA success. With how he's played against great competition in the past there seems little doubt that he'll step up in the NBA.

It's great that he can turn it up to another level. I just feel you shouldn't have to be motivated for those things to happen. Lets put it this way. It would be like Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant thing. We all know Calvin is the best reciever in football. He got called out by Dez, by saying he can do everything he does. Calvin goes off almost for a record amount of yards. Well before that, Johnson WAS the best. Now if Wiggins can prove that he is the best AND can have that gear like Jordan had, this topic will die. It's worth discussing though as we go through the season. Most of us will be analyzing all of these players much more closely since our NBA team is so bad.

[TroyD92]

I never had a coach who told the team that one guy was superior to the others. Shabazz was also 20 years old, and never as highly regarded as Wiggins.

Which top NCAA D1 school did you play for?

Oh I see. Telling the rest of your players that the guy who just arrived on campus 3 months ago is already the best player on the team by far is the way to coach a championship team. Sorry guess im just ignorant.

[mattg]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding how wiggins is. He's more along the lines of the kid that needs to take an elbow to the face that pisses him off and then he dominates. Or when he's matched up against another great player that makes him take his game to the next level. Or people say stuff about him. That kind of thing.

It's why wiggins had excelled every time against elite competition or when he went berserk last year when the media said he was coasting in games and he responded by going for like 55 and 20 the next game. It would also explain why the Kansas staff has made their comments, knowing it will push him to be better. I think it's also why most people aren't terribly concerned about how it bodes for his NBA success. With how he's played against great competition in the past there seems little doubt that he'll step up in the NBA.

It's great that he can turn it up to another level. I just feel you shouldn't have to be motivated for those things to happen. Lets put it this way. It would be like Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant thing. We all know Calvin is the best reciever in football. He got called out by Dez, by saying he can do everything he does. Calvin goes off almost for a record amount of yards. Well before that, Johnson WAS the best. Now if Wiggins can prove that he is the best AND can have that gear like Jordan had, this topic will die. It's worth discussing though as we go through the season. Most of us will be analyzing all of these players much more closely since our NBA team is so bad.

Except wiggins is getting questioned for not obliterating practice and random HS teams, which is quite different.

Question for you, did you ever see Derrick rose play in high school?

[Mikeylikesit]

I never had a coach who told the team that one guy was superior to the others. Shabazz was also 20 years old, and never as highly regarded as Wiggins.

Which top NCAA D1 school did you play for?

Oh I see. Telling the rest of your players that the guy who just arrived on campus 3 months ago is already the best player on the team by far is the way to coach a championship team. Sorry guess im just ignorant.

John Calipari does it all the time. He seems to be doing pretty well. And your players KNOW if someone is clearly better than them. This isn't little league.

[Mikeylikesit]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding how wiggins is. He's more along the lines of the kid that needs to take an elbow to the face that pisses him off and then he dominates. Or when he's matched up against another great player that makes him take his game to the next level. Or people say stuff about him. That kind of thing.

It's why wiggins had excelled every time against elite competition or when he went berserk last year when the media said he was coasting in games and he responded by going for like 55 and 20 the next game. It would also explain why the Kansas staff has made their comments, knowing it will push him to be better. I think it's also why most people aren't terribly concerned about how it bodes for his NBA success. With how he's played against great competition in the past there seems little doubt that he'll step up in the NBA.

It's great that he can turn it up to another level. I just feel you shouldn't have to be motivated for those things to happen. Lets put it this way. It would be like Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant thing. We all know Calvin is the best reciever in football. He got called out by Dez, by saying he can do everything he does. Calvin goes off almost for a record amount of yards. Well before that, Johnson WAS the best. Now if Wiggins can prove that he is the best AND can have that gear like Jordan had, this topic will die. It's worth discussing though as we go through the season. Most of us will be analyzing all of these players much more closely since our NBA team is so bad.

Except wiggins is getting questioned for not obliterating practice and random HS teams, which is quite different.

Question for you, did you ever see Derrick rose play in high school?

No I did not see Rose play in HS.

If you were supposedly the best player in your class. You are a sure fire #1 pick. You show up to campus, a great and historic program, with all of these other high profile guys. Don't you think you want to dominate in those practices to show your peers how good you are? I feel like you have that competitive spirit or you don't. You don't turn that off and on and become great. Imagine Jordan just slacking off in pick up games or practices with TEAM USA. Most of us have seen the documentary, you should want to PROVE you are the best, even in practice.

[ampd]

I'm going to wait for him to disappoint me in actual games before I worry about this, and even if he does, this draft is still loaded

[TroyD92]

Which top NCAA D1 school did you play for?

Oh I see. Telling the rest of your players that the guy who just arrived on campus 3 months ago is already the best player on the team by far is the way to coach a championship team. Sorry guess im just ignorant.

John Calipari does it all the time. He seems to be doing pretty well. And your players KNOW if someone is clearly better than them. This isn't little league.

Comparing Self and Cal as coaches is hilarious.

[Ron Swanson]

Wiggins very well could be another case of unrealistic expectations not matching the actual talent. I always thought that the LeBron comparisons were laughable to be honest. Sure, he's an explosive athlete, has above average passing skills, and is 6'8, but that's pretty much where the similarities end. LeBron had an NBA-ready body by the time he was 17 years old, and his court vision and ball-handling skills were unreal for a guy with his size.

That being said, from a raw-talent perspective, Wiggins is still the best prospect in the draft, just not to the extent that the hype has made him out to be. On the other side, I believe that up to 3 superstar players can come out of this draft class. Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Harrison, and Exum all have the potential to be elite at their position, (I'm not as sold on Marcus Smart) so even getting the #5 pick would be huge for us.

What makes him a better prospect than Randle?

Not even saying he's a better overall "prospect" at this point, but from a pure athletic potential standpoint, Randle isn't quite at Wiggins level. Both are extremely gifted athletes for their size, but Randle doesn't have the kind of elite acceleration and explosive quickness that Wiggins has. Looking at what tape i've seen of him, it's amazing for a guy with his length to be able to explode to the basket like a slashing point guard.

Randle might even turn out to be the better pro, he certainly has a more polished jumper and offensive skill set IMO, but it would most certainly come down to which you'd prefer, a potential superstar perimeter player, or a potential superstar hybrid PF. Either way they'll be going #1 and #2 next April, and I'd be fine with either of them

[TroyD92]

The overeaction to these reporters (trying to sell stories mind you) about an 18 year freshman are just asinine. If he sucks it up the first month of the season then go ahead and sell him down the river.

[emunney]

Bottom line is that just because he's not dominating in practice from day one doesn't mean he's not going to be a great player. If you've been expecting LeBron, then yeah, he's not going to be LeBron, but those of us who've been paying attention -- to Wiggins, not to the doughnut of hype encircling him -- have known for a long time that he's not LeBron. Does that mean he's not worth getting? There's a pretty significant list of non-LeBrons who'd improve the Milwaukee Bucks substantially.

It's going to be 25 years before we see another prospect like LeBron. The guy is in the discussion for the greatest basketball player ever. It's not insulting to say he's not LeBron. Nobody's LeBron.