Can the myth that Carmelo Anthony is a ball stopper end?

[DrazenForThree]

A ball stopper is someone who kills ball movement and tempo by holding onto the ball too long and wasting time on the shot clock.

how is getting the ball and taking a quick shot NOT killing ball movement and tempo?

It's important to take open shots before the defense sets. When Kevin Durant gets a a good catch and shoot opportunity, its important to take that shot while hes open so that the defense doesn't recover and set.

What would kill ball movement is if he catches the ball, makes a few dribble moves and fakes that drain the clock out, then shoot.

what makes KD so great is that he gets his shots off quick and in the flow of the offense vs the latter which would kill the teams offensive flow. He's never been a great passer, but despite that he's great for his team despite the fact that he takes a a lot of shots and fires them off quickly.

not kills an offense faster then long jumpers early in the shot clock.

[tsherkin]

A ball stopper is someone who kills ball movement and tempo by holding onto the ball too long and wasting time on the shot clock.

how is getting the ball and taking a quick shot NOT killing ball movement and tempo?

If it's the point of the ball movement, then it isn't killing anything. If you're the primary shot taker and are lofting a shot the offense is designed to produce, then it is just fine.

[Clyde Frazier]

Against Chicago, Carmelo had a number of possessions in the second half where he got the ball and you knew as soon as he got it that the shot was going up. Deng was all over him. Regardless, Melo did his footwork stuff and invariably fired up a contested long range two. He didn't read the defense or look for someone else to pass it to. His mind was made up when he got the ball.

Yes, Carmelo is a ball stopper.

You could come out with a stat that said the sky is actually green, but no one is going to believe it because it completely conflicts with what their eyes see.

As I said, yesterday was a bad game, but we were short handed, and outside of the felton/chandler P&R, we didn't have many options.

How often did you watch the knicks last season? The bad iso melo you saw last night was very seldom.

[munchies]

ugh if u watch a lot of knick games (which i doubt any of you haters do) you'll see that melo is used as a bail out guy when the designed play fails, which happens a lot. therefore he has to take that shot, if he doesnt then people will say he's not a leader and a superstar and he's not good under pressure and blah blah blah First Take ****.

let me remind you our 2nd option was JR Smith last year

[coldfish]

Against Chicago, Carmelo had a number of possessions in the second half where he got the ball and you knew as soon as he got it that the shot was going up. Deng was all over him. Regardless, Melo did his footwork stuff and invariably fired up a contested long range two. He didn't read the defense or look for someone else to pass it to. His mind was made up when he got the ball.

Yes, Carmelo is a ball stopper.

You could come out with a stat that said the sky is actually green, but no one is going to believe it because it completely conflicts with what their eyes see.

As I said, yesterday was a bad game, but we were short handed, and outside of the felton/chandler P&R, we didn't have many options.

How often did you watch the knicks last season? The bad iso melo you saw last night was very seldom.

I'm not someone who claims to watch every game ever played. I watched the Knicks probably less than 10 times last year. That being said, his footworking isolations against Deng were reminiscent of plays I have seen out of him regularly.

Maybe Melo doesn't stop the ball every time, but I think its pretty clear he isn't a drive and kick player or a guy who is great running the pick and roll. That's part of the reason why him and Amare never really clicked. His bread and butter is his offense and his offense is based around using footwork and his handle to get his own shot. Like it or not, that makes him a ball stopper.

[DoubleLintendre]

Lol this is not true. The 1% has to be willing to create for the others after "taking care" of themselves. This is true in both economics and basketball. If your theory was true and players would benefit from one guy being a ball hog, guys like Ricky Davis would have been considered superstars. Your theory sounds a lot like the "Kobe assist".

Yes, there has to be a hierarchy established and the best player should get the most shots, but that player also has to be unselfish and willing to make the right play for the team to succeed.

I'm going to give you an And1 for hammering the nail into my argument's coffin right here.

[koogiking]

Against Chicago, Carmelo had a number of possessions in the second half where he got the ball and you knew as soon as he got it that the shot was going up. Deng was all over him. Regardless, Melo did his footwork stuff and invariably fired up a contested long range two. He didn't read the defense or look for someone else to pass it to. His mind was made up when he got the ball.

Yes, Carmelo is a ball stopper.

You could come out with a stat that said the sky is actually green, but no one is going to believe it because it completely conflicts with what their eyes see.

As I said, yesterday was a bad game, but we were short handed, and outside of the felton/chandler P&R, we didn't have many options.

How often did you watch the knicks last season? The bad iso melo you saw last night was very seldom.

I'm not someone who claims to watch every game ever played. I watched the Knicks probably less than 10 times last year. That being said, his footworking isolations against Deng were reminiscent of plays I have seen out of him regularly.

Maybe Melo doesn't stop the ball every time, but I think its pretty clear he isn't a drive and kick player or a guy who is great running the pick and roll. That's part of the reason why him and Amare never really clicked. His bread and butter is his offense and his offense is based around using footwork and his handle to get his own shot. Like it or not, that makes him a ball stopper.

You seem to be implying that drive and kick players or pick and roll players cant be ball stoppers. If that is the case, then that would be wrong. Ray Allen(currently) and Kevin Durant(earlier in his career) are not pick and roll/drive and kick players at all, but they aren't ball stoppers either despite the pick and roll not being their bread and butter. Holding the ball at the top of the arc too long waiting for picks to drive off of is another form of ball stoppage. James Harden and Lebron in Cleveland did this to a fault. It was only until Lebron evolved his off ball game(shooting, posting up, cutting) that he was able to win a championship

Also, about what you say about melo. Melo's bread and butter as a NY Knick is spot up 3 pointers and post ups. If he's not spotting up to take his signature quick 3s at the elbows, he's getting position in the low post, or from the elbow area high post. He relies on the PG to deliver the ball to him.

[ndnow]

It's absolutely not a myth. I suppose you could argue he never really had a reliable scorer to pass it too before this year I suppose.

[bledredwine]

Most underrated player in the league after Westbrook.

[Mr_Perfect]

So Kobe = GOAT

Melo = Ballhog loser

Why? Because Kobe won titles with Gasol and Shaq? Who has Melo played with that's even remotely good as those guys? Kobe and Melo have the same offensive style yet Kobe is God and Melo is garbage to many here.

[Clyde Frazier]

Against Chicago, Carmelo had a number of possessions in the second half where he got the ball and you knew as soon as he got it that the shot was going up. Deng was all over him. Regardless, Melo did his footwork stuff and invariably fired up a contested long range two. He didn't read the defense or look for someone else to pass it to. His mind was made up when he got the ball.

Yes, Carmelo is a ball stopper.

You could come out with a stat that said the sky is actually green, but no one is going to believe it because it completely conflicts with what their eyes see.

As I said, yesterday was a bad game, but we were short handed, and outside of the felton/chandler P&R, we didn't have many options.

How often did you watch the knicks last season? The bad iso melo you saw last night was very seldom.

I'm not someone who claims to watch every game ever played. I watched the Knicks probably less than 10 times last year. That being said, his footworking isolations against Deng were reminiscent of plays I have seen out of him regularly.

Maybe Melo doesn't stop the ball every time, but I think its pretty clear he isn't a drive and kick player or a guy who is great running the pick and roll. That's part of the reason why him and Amare never really clicked. His bread and butter is his offense and his offense is based around using footwork and his handle to get his own shot. Like it or not, that makes him a ball stopper.

<10 times out of 79 games and you're using 1 game as the deciding factor that he hasn't changed?

As I already said earlier in this thread, the 3 PG rotation we had (with 2 PGs on the floor at times) last season allowed carmelo to play within the flow of the offense much better. The ball kept moving and he was a deadly spot up shooter with range out to the 3, especially in transition. His post play was so dominant that he rarely took bad shots, and moved the ball back out to a PG when necessary.

Check out my post on the 2nd page of this thread for the rest.

[NYKat]

He's actually improved and continues to improve in the last year or two on the whole ball stopping thing, but old narratives die hard.

[DuckIII]

It will end when he's not a selfish, iso ball-stopper. Which he still is.

[TONY_YAYO]

Every superstar is a ball-stopper Kobe Durant Westbrook Rose they shoot like their life depends on it. Melo is the superstar on the Knicks who is he goin to pass to. The Chucker JR Smith or the anemic offense of Tyson Chandler.