Knicks fan here asking for Hawks fans thoughts on Woodson

Starks1994 · Post #1 » by **Starks1994** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 4:59 pm

Have the Knicks seen the best out of Woodson? I've never been impressed with him but the numbers speak for itself with all of the Ws he's picked up. Do any of you miss Woody?

parson · Post #2 » by **parson** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 5:42 pm

Not very much. He laid down on the players when we were young, saying not to blame him. Saying it is one thing; standing around is something else. He didn't develop our youngsters, even saying it wasn't his job but theirs, as professionals, to develop themselves. He started out as a true believer in his motion offense but when that offense failed (the defense could pick the shooter - and they, of course, always picked the poorest shooter), then he ran isolations out our rear ends. He goes into games with an attitude of, "Hey! I've drawn up my offense and defense, my work is done."

Pleased with Mike Budenholzer.

MaceCase · Post #3 » by **MaceCase** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 6:43 pm

Woody still using regular season wins as his benchmark for coaching I see. Too bad it's by implementing a system that is woefully inadequate in the playoffs, which of course is the only benchmark a team as vet laden as the Knicks cares about.

Post #4 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 6:54 pm

Solid motivator. Terrible at X's and O's. (Though maybe he learned a thing or two under D'Antoni.)

Regular season he is solid. But is one of the worst postseason tacticians I've ever seen.

He'll get you to the playoffs every year, but he cannot (will not?) make the adjustments necessary to out strategize anyone.

The only playoff series he's ever won are the ones where his team is the definitively more talented.

azuresou1 · Post #5 » by **azuresou1** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 7:15 pm

I like Woody as a guy, but not as a coach.

Post #6 » by **ATL Boy** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 8:10 pm

Yup, these guys hit it on the head. He's a solid Regular Season coach but just REFUSES to make adjustments in the playoffs. We lived and died by the iso-Joe offense, and in the playoffs we lived in the first round but died brutally in round 2. (Getting swept by the Lebron led Cavs in 09 and getting massacred by the Magic in the most lop-sided playoff series of all time in 2010)

graymule · Post #7 » by **graymule** » Wed Nov 6, 2013 9:48 pm

Mostly, he's good with veteran players. He has his game plan which he explains
to them. Then, he expects them to execute the plan.

He has no patience with inexperienced players. He has a dog house where a player
may end up. When he does, he will not see the light of being on the floor and playing
for several games.

He is too quick to pull a young player and habitually stays with a veteran for much,
much longer. The young player he sits until the player learns. If he doesn't, too bad.
It's not his fault.

Starks1994 · Post #8 » by **Starks1994** » Thu Nov 7, 2013 5:06 am

I understand giving the ball to Melo and pretty much deferring to him during the game but Woody's obsession with JR Smith is maddening. JR comes back on Sunday and I'm not looking forward to another season of Woody giving him free reign to shoot as much as he wants. I take more issue with Iman Shumpert not being developed.

MaceCase · Post #9 » by **MaceCase** » Thu Nov 7, 2013 5:03 pm

Starks1994 wrote:I understand giving the ball to Melo and pretty much deferring to him during the game but Woody's obsession with JR Smith is maddening. JR comes back on Sunday and I'm not looking forward to another season of Woody giving him free reign to shoot as much as he wants. I take more issue with Iman Shumpert not being developed.

Was the same case here, if you were a guard/wing that could get yours you were given free reign with the ball. If you are a young guy you better be able to provide the very specific role that he pigeonholes you into be it spacing the floor, defending, rebounding, never making a mistake, etc. or you can place your butt firmly on the bench. He wasn't interested in developing well rounded prospects and allowed vets the leeway and minutes to figure out **** for themselves.

Starks1994 · Post #10 » by **Starks1994** » Thu Nov 7, 2013 5:24 pm

MaceCase wrote:
Starks1994 wrote:I understand giving the ball to Melo and pretty much deferring to him during the game but Woody's obsession with JR Smith is maddening. JR comes back on Sunday and I'm not looking forward to another season of Woody giving him free reign to shoot as much as he wants. I take more issue with Iman Shumpert not being developed.

Was the same case here, if you were a guard/wing that could get yours you were given free reign with the ball. If you are a young guy you better be able to provide the very specific role that he pigeonholes you into be it spacing the floor, defending, rebounding, never making a mistake, etc. or you can place your butt firmly on the bench. He wasn't interested in developing well rounded prospects and allowed vets the leeway and minutes to figure out **** for themselves.

That's my fear. Sometimes regular season records are simply nothing more than that. If I'm Shumpert, there's no way I feel comfortable with Woodson. He still treats him like a rookie and rewards JR after a horrible post season, and a poor off season. I think Shumpert is a gonner

Grammer Nazi · Post #11 » by **Grammer Nazi** » Thu Nov 7, 2013 10:19 pm

Starks1994 wrote:I understand giving the ball to Melo and pretty much deferring to him during the game but Woody's obsession with JR Smith is maddening. JR comes back on Sunday and I'm not looking forward to another season of Woody giving him free reign to shoot as much as he wants. I take more issue with Iman Shumpert not being developed.

Woody favors iso-based players over systems players even if the systems player is younger and more skilled than said iso-player so I can see why the favoritism for JR Smith. Iso players require zero coaching or offensive system in place so you set them loose and sit back and watch. Before Iso-Joe, we had Iso-Lue and Iso-Flip Murray and iso-Antoine Walker.

He is completely a short-term coach who does only cares about regular season wins and will not bother developing depth or young players. In fact, he is the reason that we traded a 1st round pick and Jordan Crawford (who was actually a decent prospect at the time) for a broken-down Kirk Hinrich since he spent no effort developing Jeff Teague as a PG. It was not until Hinrich went down in the playoffs that he was forced to play Teague who then went on to average 20 points in the series against the Bulls which shows how big of a stubborn fool Woody had been.

He will absolutely get outcoached in the playoffs by anyone with half a brain. They were taken to 7 games by those crappy Heat teams and a Bogut-less Bucks team. Also, anytime the Hawks played on the road there was a 50% chance it would be a blowout loss even if the Hawks were heavily favored.

Post #12 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:52 pm

You guys see we got quoted over on one of the Knicks fans blogs?

http://bucketsoverbroadway.com/2013/11/11/hawk-fans-say/

These days the most passionate fans are the ones that lament on message boards, so I asked the Hawks board on RealGM and Reddit for their thoughts on Woodson. Here are the most common refrains:

Starks1994 · Post #13 » by **Starks1994** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:15 am

Jamaaliver wrote:You guys see we got quoted over on one of the Knicks fans blogs?

http://bucketsoverbroadway.com/2013/11/11/hawk-fans-say/

These days the most passionate fans are the ones that lament on message boards, so I asked the Hawks board on RealGM and Reddit for their thoughts on Woodson. Here are the most common refrains:

Yea that was me! There was so much great feedback that I did a post on it since Woodson is heavily such a heavily discussed topic for Knick fans these days. Great game today fellas. Looking forward to the next one on Sat. I'll have to remember to start Teague in my fantasy league. He's turned into a hell of player