Should Lin come off the bench?

[hayden]

i don't get it, lin's defense has been pretty good. he struggles situationally, but many players do. just don't get how ppl continue to hate on him for his defense after the other guy on his team mailed in one of the worst defensive performances of all time.

Lin has an unusually strong fanbase which annoys many other fans, even Rocket fans, regardless of how he plays.

In turn, there is often times a subtle bias against him and he is held at a standard that might be equal to his popularity, which is unfair to Lin as a player and leads to long forum threads of needless back and forth between Lin supporters and Lin detractors (both camps claiming objectivity), with the occasional real unbiased perspective (such as yours) sprinkled throughout.

[13th Man]

After tonight's game after Lin gets benched down the stretch despite having a good game, it's apparent that Beverley is McHale's chosen one.

[junot111]

for the record, in 5 games Lin is averaging:
15.2PPG, 4.4APG, 1.4SPG, 53.3%FG, 42.9%3PT

small sample size of course and I'm not expecting the percentages to hold to such high standards, but I think we are seeing the results of a summer spent on improving his 3pt shot, more aggressiveness and comfort playing his game, and better management of minutes(eg. playing more with the 2nd unit) from the coaching staff.

Should Beverley be re-inserted to the starting lineup(which I think he will be), then Lin could be a legitimate candidate for the 6th man award.

[Kupchak9]

for the record, in 5 games Lin is averaging:
15.2PPG, 4.4APG, 1.4SPG, 53.3%FG, 42.9%3PT

small sample size of course and I'm not expecting the percentages to hold to such high standards, but I think we are seeing the results of a summer spent on improving his 3pt shot, more aggressiveness and comfort playing his game, and better management of minutes(eg. playing more with the 2nd unit) from the coaching staff.

Should Beverley be re-inserted to the starting lineup(which I think he will be), then Lin could be a legitimate candidate for the 6th man award.

I agree, Lin could very well be a top 5 sixth man candidate which is pretty much what the squad could use right now outside of a defensive stopper in the perimeter (other than Beverly).

[Ettorefm]

I don't get the hate over Lin. He's been relegated to a 4th option and not even considered (meh) a starter anymore and is putting great numbers on amazing efficiency (over 52%FG and great 3pt %).
.
He is a better ballhandler than he was in NY, don't commit as many TOs, plays the same no matter the role or number of minutes, is a good defender and amazing ball stealer...just let the dude play.
.
He's averaging the same number of minutes as last season (32).
.
Last Season - 13/6/3, 1.6 steals and 44/33/78 percentages. ORTG of 106 and PER of 14.9
This Season - 16/4/2, 1.3 steals and 54/41/79 percentages. ORTG of 122 and PER of 19.4 - just a bit lower than his NY PER (19.9)

[No35]

From reddit:

"Wanted to post my observations from the game last night but will lead the analysis to the pros on the site. My sister and I sat right behind Rockets bench which was great but we had 5 or 6 hecklers sitting right beside us that were super annoying. They were talking trash and screaming literally the whole game. I want to punch them in the face First, Jeremy looked good during warmups. He was making a lot of his jump shots. Not sure if they showed this on TV but Parsons, Harden and Lin have a new pre game ritual. Harden and Parsons facing each other with Lin facing away from them. Harden brushes Parsons hair, Parsons brushes Harden's beard. They do a couple other things that I missed then at the last second Jeremy turns around and they all bow towards each other.

First half was really hard to watch. Looks like dwight and Harden were super lazy on defense. Dwight constantly looks to throw outlet pass to Harden or Parsons. Jeremy was getting really frustrated. There was a play where Coach Mchale was yelling at Jeremy to run a certain play (Index finger and pinky finger raised). Looks like this is a type of "horns" play where they set double screens for Jeremy at the top of the key (one pick on each side). Jeremy calls the play, Harden gets the ball and goes iso and misses.

Mchale then calls time out and yells at Jeremy. Jeremy yells at Mchale back. I heard Jeremy say something like, "I AM trying to run the play." Mchale then yells at Harden and Harden just walks away from him. Mchale then looks at Jeremy and shrugs his shoulders kind of like, "there's nothing i can do."

Jeremy reall looks like he is not having a good time playing. He was constantly being yelled at by Dwight and Parsons between plays. To be honest, I really don't know why they were yelling at him. There were couple time where Jeremy wasn't even involved in the play. In 4th quarter, Jeremy checks in at 8 minute mark on his own. He looked at Mchale while walking to check in kind of like asking "I'm checking in right now right." Made me think maybe they have set times they check in? At the end of the 4th, AB was set to check in for JEremy during garbage time. Jeremy was playing well. I saw AB walk back to the bench on his own and heard him say to Mchale, "Jeremy's doing his thing. Just let him play."

"HILARIOUS! i know the guys that were heckling dwight and harden. they are season ticket holders and die hard clips fans, and actually got yelled at by both rockets towards the end of the game.

the assessment about Lin is completely correct. It's crazy how other teams attack him. and it's even worse that the rockets players don't stand up for him. he was bullied by the clips and was OPENLY yelled at by several rockets players for things that weren't even his fault. CP3 would abuse whichever rocket was guarding him, but somehow whenever Lin got scored on he was given crap.

the part about Harden is completely true too. he openly broke plays and went iso. he turned it into a d measuring contest for some reason, when Omri was making everything. no way the team will contend, they are in line for a self destruct IMO."

[junot111]

That's really eye opening... Lin gets a lot of unfair treatment from the entire league .. Last year parsons had his back most of the time

Sent from my Nexus 4 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[inquisitive]

it isn't lin's fault that paul got most of his assists from redick and dudley being left open so much.

[litex]

There was a play where Coach Mchale was yelling at Jeremy to run a certain play (Index finger and pinky finger raised). Looks like this is a type of "horns" play where they set double screens for Jeremy at the top of the key (one pick on each side). Jeremy calls the play, Harden gets the ball and goes iso and misses.

Mchale then calls time out and yells at Jeremy. Jeremy yells at Mchale back. I heard Jeremy say something like, "I AM trying to run the play." Mchale then yells at Harden and Harden just walks away from him. Mchale then looks at Jeremy and shrugs his shoulders kind of like, "there's nothing i can do."

McHale is a nice guy, and smarter than he generally gets credit for, but I don't think he has any control over his stars, and its sort of pathetic that he's resorted to yelling at Lin for Harden's mistakes.

[Zubby]

From reddit:

"Wanted to post my observations from the game last night but will lead the analysis to the pros on the site. My sister and I sat right behind Rockets bench which was great but we had 5 or 6 hecklers sitting right beside us that were super annoying. They were talking trash and screaming literally the whole game. I want to punch them in the face First, Jeremy looked good during warmups. He was making a lot of his jump shots. Not sure if they showed this on TV but Parsons, Harden and Lin have a new pre game ritual. Harden and Parsons facing each other with Lin facing away from them. Harden brushes Parsons hair, Parsons brushes Harden's beard. They do a couple other things that I missed then at the last second Jeremy turns around and they all bow towards each other.

First half was really hard to watch. Looks like dwight and Harden were super lazy on defense. Dwight constantly looks to throw outlet pass to Harden or Parsons. Jeremy was getting really frustrated. There was a play where Coach Mchale was yelling at Jeremy to run a certain play (Index finger and pinky finger raised). Looks like this is a type of "horns" play where they set double screens for Jeremy at the top of the key (one pick on each side). Jeremy calls the play, Harden gets the ball and goes iso and misses.

Mchale then calls time out and yells at Jeremy. Jeremy yells at Mchale back. I heard Jeremy say something like, "I AM trying to run the play." Mchale then yells at Harden and Harden just walks away from him. Mchale then looks at Jeremy and shrugs his shoulders kind of like, "there's nothing i can do."

Jeremy reall looks like he is not having a good time playing. He was constantly being yelled at by Dwight and Parsons between plays. To be honest, I really don't know why they were yelling at him. There were couple time where Jeremy wasn't even involved in the play. In 4th quarter, Jeremy checks in at 8 minute mark on his own. He looked at Mchale while walking to check in kind of like asking "I'm checking in right now right." Made me think maybe they have set times they check in? At the end of the 4th, AB was set to check in for JEremy during garbage time. Jeremy was playing well. I saw AB walk back to the bench on his own and heard him say to Mchale, "Jeremy's doing his thing. Just let him play."

"HILARIOUS! i know the guys that were heckling dwight and harden. they are season ticket holders and die hard clips fans, and actually got yelled at by both rockets towards the end of the game.

the assessment about Lin is completely correct. It's crazy how other teams attack him. and it's even worse that the rockets players don't stand up for him. he was bullied by the clips and was OPENLY yelled at by several rockets players for things that weren't even his fault. CP3 would abuse whichever rocket was guarding him, but somehow whenever Lin got scored on he was given crap.

the part about Harden is completely true too. he openly broke plays and went iso. he turned it into a d measuring contest for some reason, when Omri was making everything. no way the team will contend, they are in line for a self destruct IMO."

This is dumb, I mean did I read that right? ppl are upset because he teammates wont stand up to Lin's hecklers? dafuq...
For the record I've seen McHale yell at everyone, but its usually Parsons who is an extension of him on the court. Parsons yells at everyone and Bev does the same thing except Bev is a lot calmer.

This happens on every team in any sport at all stages.

"OMG why is everyone yelling at Chalmers!?!"

[litex]

This happens on every team in any sport at all stages.

"OMG why is everyone yelling at Chalmers!?!"

The difference is that people yell at Chalmers when he **** up. When Wade and Lebron mess up, its not like Spoelstra tries to yell at them, gets tuned out, then ends up taking it out on Chalmers.

Nobody has an issue with taking Lin to task when he screws up, but its stupid for McHale to treat him like he's somehow at fault when Harden goes off script and does whatever he wants.

[Zubby]

This happens on every team in any sport at all stages.

"OMG why is everyone yelling at Chalmers!?!"

The difference is that people yell at Chalmers when he **** up. When Wade and Lebron mess up, its not like Spoelstra tries to yell at them, gets tuned out, then ends up taking it out on Chalmers.

Nobody has an issue with taking Lin to task when he screws up, but its stupid for McHale to treat him like he's somehow at fault when Harden goes off script and does whatever he wants.

And you know McHale does this how? What exactly was said? As I've have said I've seen McHale, and other coaches yell/pull aside Harden multiple times.

[litex]

This happens on every team in any sport at all stages.

"OMG why is everyone yelling at Chalmers!?!"

The difference is that people yell at Chalmers when he **** up. When Wade and Lebron mess up, its not like Spoelstra tries to yell at them, gets tuned out, then ends up taking it out on Chalmers.

Nobody has an issue with taking Lin to task when he screws up, but its stupid for McHale to treat him like he's somehow at fault when Harden goes off script and does whatever he wants.

And you know McHale does this how? What exactly was said? As I've have said I've seen McHale, and other coaches yell/pull aside Harden multiple times.

Did you not even read the story you're responding to?

"There was a play where Coach Mchale was yelling at Jeremy to run a certain play (Index finger and pinky finger raised). Looks like this is a type of "horns" play where they set double screens for Jeremy at the top of the key (one pick on each side). Jeremy calls the play, Harden gets the ball and goes iso and misses.

Mchale then calls time out and yells at Jeremy. Jeremy yells at Mchale back. I heard Jeremy say something like, "I AM trying to run the play." Mchale then yells at Harden and Harden just walks away from him. Mchale then looks at Jeremy and shrugs his shoulders kind of like, "there's nothing i can do."

Maybe the dude just misinterpreted, but if accurate, thats just a coaching fail from McHale.

[Zubby]

Maybe the dude just misinterpreted

There you have it.
Hell even in that story he said McHale yells at both of them. It really isn't that serious, like I said if you've ever played a sport you know , if you've ever watched a team sport you see this and it really isn't "omg someone is getting bullied."


Someone brought this up last year when they went to their 1st game with "OMG Parsons just yells at Lin all the time" Someone will bring this up again later on in the year when they go to a game.

[KungFuJoe]

Any team with Harden and Dwight is BOUND to have chemistry problems.

You have a primadonna and a chucker on the same team...

BTW...the two terms can be used for either guy.

[litex]

Maybe the dude just misinterpreted

There you have it.
Hell even in that story he said McHale yells at both of them. It really isn't that serious, like I said if you've ever played a sport you know , if you've ever watched a team sport you see this and it really isn't "omg someone is getting bullied."


Someone brought this up last year when they went to their 1st game with "OMG Parsons just yells at Lin all the time" Someone will bring this up again later on in the year when they go to a game.

What about watching the Rockets this year would make you think he's wrong though? It is absolutely obvious that Harden just does whatever he wants to on both ends of the floor. He goes iso whenever it strikes his fancy and seems utterly disengaged when he doesn't have the ball. And on defense he literally just does not give a **** about the system at all, he just ball watches and drifts around aimlessly.

I've seen no evidence that Harden has any respect for McHale's system, nor any belief that he has any obligation to do anything he doesn't want to. Obviously some players are just uncoachable, but in many cases you see this dynamic when a star player just doesn't buy into what his coach is selling, and all signs point to that being the case with Harden and McHale.

Which makes the "McHale called a play, Harden ignored it and shrugged it off when McHale yelled at him, so McHale ended up bitching about it to Lin" story sound completely plausible to me.

[KungFuJoe]

McHale ain't no dummy. He knows that pissing off your star player will get you fired.

And now he's got TWO star players that can (and one HAS) get their coach fired.

I still think he's not exactly a good coach, but I don't any other NBA coach envies his job.

[litex]

Any team with Harden and Dwight is BOUND to have chemistry problems.

You have a primadonna and a chucker on the same team...

BTW...the two terms can be used for either guy.

The Shaq-Kobe Lakers were dominated by a primadonna and a chucker who happened to hate each other. But Phil Jackson got them to buy into it, at least for a few years, and they became a dynasty.

The problem for the Rockets is that Dwight isn't on Shaq's level, Harden is no Kobe, and McHale isn't in the same league of coaching ability as Phil Jackson.

[Zubby]

What about watching the Rockets this year would make you think he's wrong though? It is absolutely obvious that Harden just does whatever he wants to on both ends of the floor. He goes iso whenever it strikes his fancy and seems utterly disengaged when he doesn't have the ball. And on defense he literally just does not give a **** about the system at all, he just ball watches and drifts around aimlessly.

I've seen no evidence that Harden has any respect for McHale's system, nor any belief that he has any obligation to do anything he doesn't want to. Obviously some players are just uncoachable, but in many cases you see this dynamic when a star player just doesn't buy into what his coach is selling, and all signs point to that being the case with Harden and McHale.

Which makes the "McHale called a play, Harden ignored it and shrugged it off when McHale yelled at him, so McHale ended up bitching about it to Lin" story sound completely plausible to me.

Harden was the same way last year, and the years before on the Olympic team and OKC. Just because Harden isn't very vocal or because he is stoic most of the time doesn't not mean he doesn't respect McHale or his system.
Asik is the same way, he gets yelled at he just kinda nods his head and walks away.

Go and watch Harden for OKC or in his limited time with Team USA... he plays defense the exact same way. He is a lazy/bad defender. I might be wrong but Lebron and Melo were consider bad at Hardens age too.

So no its not completely plausible.

Any team with Harden and Dwight is BOUND to have chemistry problems.

You have a primadonna and a chucker on the same team...

BTW...the two terms can be used for either guy.

The Shaq-Kobe Lakers were dominated by a primadonna and a chucker who happened to hate each other. But Phil Jackson got them to buy into it, at least for a few years, and they became a dynasty.

The problem for the Rockets is that Dwight isn't on Shaq's level, Harden is no Kobe, and McHale isn't in the same league of coaching ability as Phil Jackson.

McHale is doing just fine, Kobe and Harden are completely different personalities... Did you know Phil Jackson and Popovich were not always seen as great coaches.

[KungFuJoe]

Any team with Harden and Dwight is BOUND to have chemistry problems.

You have a primadonna and a chucker on the same team...

BTW...the two terms can be used for either guy.

The Shaq-Kobe Lakers were dominated by a primadonna and a chucker who happened to hate each other. But Phil Jackson got them to buy into it, at least for a few years, and they became a dynasty.

The problem for the Rockets is that Dwight isn't on Shaq's level, Harden is no Kobe, and McHale isn't in the same league of coaching ability as Phil Jackson.

Pretty much. I put most of the blame on McHale. I feel that guy has basically no control over this team. It's Harden's team. And now it's Harden/Dwight's team. And that's bad news.