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Nikola Mirotic Thread

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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#781 » by BullsFTW » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:03 pm

transplant wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:But he can't jump. At all. He's even less impressive than Dirk, from a vertical point of view.


In general, the Nowitzki comparison is premature and unfair, but for pure leaping ability, I think it's fair game. And while watching highlight reels is no way to judge how good a player is, they can be instructive if you want to compare something like real, "functional athleticism" (athleticism displayed within the context of game action). So I just watched some highlight reels of Mirotic and a young Nowitzki. IMO, their functional athleticism is very damn similar.

I did the same before, and I agree with your assessment.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#782 » by PMONSTER » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:07 pm

I don't even know how excited I can get for someone we might trade to get an already established star.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#783 » by VolumePoster » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:13 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:Who cares whether or not Mirotic can jump out of the gym? The fact is that Mirotic knows basketball, understands positioning and leverage, and is dominating the competition in the second highest level of basketball on earth.

And people are worried about his vertical?


Don't get me wrong, Magilla, I am very excited about Mirotic. I think he could be excellent for exactly the reasons you bring up. My concern is this: will he be able to finish in the paint? If he can, vertical be damned. Many - Kevin Love being the obvious example - have been able to compensate with craftiness and strength. But what I'm addressing is what may limit him. For me, the ability to get vertical is the question for Nikola.

The reason I worry about it is because it's the only question he hasn't answered.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#784 » by BullsFTW » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:14 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:Who cares whether or not Mirotic can jump out of the gym? The fact is that Mirotic knows basketball, understands positioning and leverage, and is dominating the competition in the second highest level of basketball on earth.

And people are worried about his vertical?


Don't get me wrong, Magilla, I am very excited about Mirotic. I think he could be excellent for exactly the reasons you bring up. My concern is this: will he be able to finish in the paint? If he can, vertical be damned. Many - Kevin Love being the obvious example - have been able to compensate with craftiness and strength. But what I'm addressing is what may limit him. For me, the ability to get vertical is the question for Nikola.

The reason I worry about it is because it's the only question he hasn't answered.

Craftiness runs in Nikola's veins. He is a finesse and intelligent low post scorer.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#785 » by VolumePoster » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:17 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote:I don't know what some of you guys are talking about. I didn't see anybody overlooking Mirotic's skillset in this thread. Not in the last pages at least. Some of us say that he lacks elite athleticism, which may keep him from becoming a star. What's wrong with that? It's actually a compliment. It's probably the only negative thing you could say about him as a prospect.


Agreed. I'm not saying he'll fail because he doesn't have a 40 inch vertical. I'm saying a 40-inch vertical looks pretty handy in the NBA, and Mirotic doesn't have one.

Does that mean he won't be terrific? Of course not.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#786 » by BuffaloBull » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:17 pm

BullsFTW wrote:
AAU Teammate wrote:What will basically happen to Mirotic is he'll be saddled with the senseless Dirk Nowitzki thing because of what the hype machine is and because of the build up and time spent as a stash pick.

Face it, if he was Dirk he'd have gone higher. Dirk is an all-time great, probably the most unique 7 footer in NBA superstar history.

Mirotic is a late first round pick who has become lottery talent, even without the focus on weight training (look at what Taj at 28 has JUST done in the weight room...JUST now). NM has been improving while on someone else's dime. It's been an excellent situation for us. He's 22 and learning the game, facing talent (on average) better than nearly every men's US college level team. If he's between Kukoc and Schrempf then that is phenomenal for a #23 pick. At a time when everyone had been clamoring for MarShon Brooks.

The big reason why Mirotic fell to #23 in the 2011 NBA Draft was because teams knew he was not coming to the NBA right away. When Dirk was drafted, he went straight to play in the NBA. I remember reading that Mirotic would have gone in the Top 5 of the 2011 Draft had he able to come to the US right away.


Yeah Mirotic was putting out bigtime Fran Vasquez signals before the draft--signed a huge extension with Real Madrid that same season. But it looks like it was all a successful gambit to control where he would go in the draft. It will never get out into the open, but you have to think the Bulls back-channeled this, and had a plan in place, the same way they had with Omer.

Where they got lucky, though, has been in Mirotic's progression since he was drafted. He was picked based on potential and good per minute stats based on a limited role in Real Madrid's rotation, and since then he's fulfilled the best case scenario: become a starter, two time Rising Star, and even MVP. A lot of guys who are hyped at 18-19 don't end up being the player they were supposed to be.

The whole nature of his drafting by the Bulls, and his obvious fit with Derrick as a stretch 4, make me think that Mirotic is an asset the Bulls would only put on the table for a no-brainer type of deal, and realistically, he really isn't going anywhere. Mirotic has beasted at every level, putting up huge statlines against his peers (35 points, 23 rebounds, 2 assists, 9 steals and 6 blocked shots in 2009 L'Hospitalet , averaging 27/11 in the 2011 U20 European Championships, 31-11 with 18-18 FT against Zalgiris last year).
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#787 » by VolumePoster » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:18 pm

BullsFTW wrote:Looks like Real Madrid can beat multiple teams in the NBA


Yup. I'd love to watch them play, too. .500 team?
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#788 » by BullsFTW » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:24 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
BullsFTW wrote:Looks like Real Madrid can beat multiple teams in the NBA


Yup. I'd love to watch them play, too. .500 team?

They are on a roll lately, and the chemistry of that team is ridiculously good right now.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#789 » by PaKii94 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:25 pm

this kid is gonna be beast for us
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#790 » by sisibilio » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:35 pm

VolumePoster wrote:Don't get me wrong, Magilla, I am very excited about Mirotic. I think he could be excellent for exactly the reasons you bring up. My concern is this: will he be able to finish in the paint? If he can, vertical be damned. Many - Kevin Love being the obvious example - have been able to compensate with craftiness and strength. But what I'm addressing is what may limit him. For me, the ability to get vertical is the question for Nikola.

The reason I worry about it is because it's the only question he hasn't answered.

I agree but Kevin Love is not a good example, he registered a 35" max vertical in the draft combine, and that was weighing 20-25 pounds more than he does now, so i wouldn't be surprised to know he has added a couple more inches to that.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#791 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:48 pm

sisibilio wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:Don't get me wrong, Magilla, I am very excited about Mirotic. I think he could be excellent for exactly the reasons you bring up. My concern is this: will he be able to finish in the paint? If he can, vertical be damned. Many - Kevin Love being the obvious example - have been able to compensate with craftiness and strength. But what I'm addressing is what may limit him. For me, the ability to get vertical is the question for Nikola.

The reason I worry about it is because it's the only question he hasn't answered.

I agree but Kevin Love is not a good example, he registered a 35" max vertical in the draft combine, and that was weighing 20-25 pounds more than he does now, so i wouldn't be surprised to know he has added a couple more inches to that.


Sometimes max vertical measurements and even the sprint timings are useless, because all that these potential rookies do is work on their explosion and speed but it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll upkeep it, or it's part of their game.

Just look at Joakim and DeAndre Jordan, who would you guess has a better vertical jump, or measured vertical jump at the combine? Most people if not all people would guess DeAndre, but the fact is, Joakim measured with a higher vertical leap than DeAndre by more than 6 inches! So yeah, Joakim may have measured in with a higher vertical at the combine, but it doesn't mean it's really going to be used as part of his game, or that his that more explosive than Jordan.

Sometimes people get excited about vertical jump without factoring in what they of game a player has, will they even use it in games or are they simply just good jumpers? There have been plenty of players who measured with great verticals but it's just not their games to be aggressive and attack the rim. In the same regard, there are plenty of players who have measured in with not so great verticals but have made up for it by their aggressive play and willingness to use every ounce of their vertical.

I guess my point is, with players like Mirotic or even Love, their games aren't ever going to be predicated on how high their jumping ability, or lack thereof, but more so their skill level and fundamentals of the game. All you need to do is look at their respective games to know that jumping isn't exactly going to make or break their career, as opposed to players such as DeAndre Jordan who if not for their length and explosive jumping ability, they'd unlikely be in the league since their skill level isn't all that great.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#792 » by P.C. » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:03 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
sisibilio wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:Don't get me wrong, Magilla, I am very excited about Mirotic. I think he could be excellent for exactly the reasons you bring up. My concern is this: will he be able to finish in the paint? If he can, vertical be damned. Many - Kevin Love being the obvious example - have been able to compensate with craftiness and strength. But what I'm addressing is what may limit him. For me, the ability to get vertical is the question for Nikola.

The reason I worry about it is because it's the only question he hasn't answered.

I agree but Kevin Love is not a good example, he registered a 35" max vertical in the draft combine, and that was weighing 20-25 pounds more than he does now, so i wouldn't be surprised to know he has added a couple more inches to that.


Sometimes max vertical measurements and even the sprint timings are useless, because all that these potential rookies do is work on their explosion and speed but it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll upkeep it, or it's part of their game.

Just look at Joakim and DeAndre Jordan, who would you guess has a better vertical jump, or measured vertical jump at the combine? Most people if not all people would guess DeAndre, but the fact is, Joakim measured with a higher vertical leap than DeAndre by more than 6 inches! So yeah, Joakim may have measured in with a higher vertical at the combine, but it doesn't mean it's really going to be used as part of his game, or that his that more explosive than Jordan.

Sometimes people get excited about vertical jump without factoring in what they of game a player has, will they even use it in games or are they simply just good jumpers? There have been plenty of players who measured with great verticals but it's just not their games to be aggressive and attack the rim. In the same regard, there are plenty of players who have measured in with not so great verticals but have made up for it by their aggressive play and willingness to use every ounce of their vertical.

I guess my point is, with players like Mirotic or even Love, their games aren't ever going to be predicated on how high their jumping ability, or lack thereof, but more so their skill level and fundamentals of the game. All you need to do is look at their respective games to know that jumping isn't exactly going to make or break their career, as opposed to players such as DeAndre Jordan who if not for their length and explosive jumping ability, they'd unlikely be in the league since their skill level isn't all that great.


I think everything you've said is right but I still share VolumePoster's concerns. If Mirotic isn't better than a solid role player it's going to be because he struggles with the athleticism of the pro game. Let's look at the 2013 allstars:

7 * Carmelo Anthony (Knicks) F 6-8 230 05/29/84 Syracuse/USA
6 * LeBron James (Heat) F 6-8 250 12/30/84 St. Vincent-St. Mary HS (OH)/USA
5 * Kevin Garnett (Celtics) C-F 6-11 253 05/19/76 Farragut Academy HS (IL)/USA
9 | Rajon Rondo (Celtics) G 6-1 186 02/22/86 Kentucky/USA
3 * Dwyane Wade (Heat) G 6-4 220 01/17/82 Marquette/USA
1 * Chris Bosh (Heat) C-F 6-11 235 03/24/84 Georgia Tech/USA
6 # Tyson Chandler (Knicks) C 7-1 240 10/02/82 Dominguez HS (CA)/USA
9 Luol Deng (Bulls) F 6-9 220 04/16/85 Duke/Sudan
24 # Paul George (Pacers) G-F 6-8 221 05/02/90 Fresno State/USA
11 # Jrue Holiday (76ers) G 6-4 205 06/12/90 UCLA/USA
2 # Kyrie Irving (Cavaliers) G 6-3 191 03/23/92 Duke/USA
11 # Brook Lopez (Nets) C 7-0 265 04/01/88 Stanford/USA
13 # Joakim Noah (Bulls) C 6-11 232 02/25/85 Florida/USA
Head Coach: Erik Spoelstra (Heat)
NO. PLAYER (TEAM) POS. HT. WT. BIRTHDATE FROM
35 * Kevin Durant (Thunder) F 6-9 235 09/29/88 Texas/USA
32 * Blake Griffin (Clippers) F 6-10 251 03/16/89 Oklahoma/USA
12 * Dwight Howard (Lakers) C 6-11 265 12/08/85 SW Atlanta Christian Academy (GA)/USA
24 * Kobe Bryant (Lakers) G 6-6 205 08/23/78 Lower Merion HS (PA)/USA
3 * Chris Paul (Clippers) G 6-0 175 05/06/85 Wake Forest/USA
12 LaMarcus Aldridge (Trail Blazers) F 6-11 240 07/19/85 Texas/USA
21 Tim Duncan (Spurs) F 6-11 255 04/25/76 Wake Forest/U.S. Virgin Islands
13 # James Harden (Rockets) G 6-5 220 08/26/89 Arizona State/USA
10 David Lee (Warriors) F-C 6-9 240 04/29/83 Florida/USA
9 Tony Parker (Spurs) G 6-2 185 05/17/82 Paris BR/France
50 Zach Randolph (Grizzlies) F 6-9 260 07/16/81 Michigan State/USA
0 Russell Westbrook (Thunder) G 6-3 187 11/12/88 UCLA/USA


How many of these players are average sized and also don't have the ability jump out of the barn? Duncan is big; Griffin can jump; Howard is big and can jump; LA is big; Duncan is big; Randolph has a huge wingspan; Noah is quick; Lopez is big; Bosh is big; Tyson is big and can move.

That leaves really only David Lee.

That's all I'm saying. Of course, Mirotic is a better shooter than any of these guys.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#793 » by sisibilio » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:27 am

Mirotic is 6-10 barefoot, that's close to 6-11 with shoes, clearly above average for the PF position in the current NBA. Considering his ostrichlike neck i don't think Bosh for instance is any longer than him.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#794 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:27 am

Or we could be super stoked. Just an option.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#795 » by jcuuofd » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:28 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af3jTTp76bI[/youtube]
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#796 » by GimmeDat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:45 am

A couple of tweets from Chicago Bulls Rumors -

Real Madrid believes Nikola Mirotic is ready to join the Chicago Bulls next year. Madrid now looking for replacements. (Source: David Arcas)


Positive signs if true.. The wait really has been so long now!

Washington Wizards Jan Vesely agent is talking to Real Madrid about returning to Europe to replace Mirotic next season (Source: David Arcas)


^If this is the end of Vesely's NBA tenure, what a massive bust.. imagine if the Wiz drafted one of Vucevic (pick 16), Kawhi Leonard (15), Tobias Harris (19) instead.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#797 » by BullsFTW » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:46 am

P.C. wrote:
kulaz3000 wrote:
sisibilio wrote:I agree but Kevin Love is not a good example, he registered a 35" max vertical in the draft combine, and that was weighing 20-25 pounds more than he does now, so i wouldn't be surprised to know he has added a couple more inches to that.


Sometimes max vertical measurements and even the sprint timings are useless, because all that these potential rookies do is work on their explosion and speed but it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll upkeep it, or it's part of their game.

Just look at Joakim and DeAndre Jordan, who would you guess has a better vertical jump, or measured vertical jump at the combine? Most people if not all people would guess DeAndre, but the fact is, Joakim measured with a higher vertical leap than DeAndre by more than 6 inches! So yeah, Joakim may have measured in with a higher vertical at the combine, but it doesn't mean it's really going to be used as part of his game, or that his that more explosive than Jordan.

Sometimes people get excited about vertical jump without factoring in what they of game a player has, will they even use it in games or are they simply just good jumpers? There have been plenty of players who measured with great verticals but it's just not their games to be aggressive and attack the rim. In the same regard, there are plenty of players who have measured in with not so great verticals but have made up for it by their aggressive play and willingness to use every ounce of their vertical.

I guess my point is, with players like Mirotic or even Love, their games aren't ever going to be predicated on how high their jumping ability, or lack thereof, but more so their skill level and fundamentals of the game. All you need to do is look at their respective games to know that jumping isn't exactly going to make or break their career, as opposed to players such as DeAndre Jordan who if not for their length and explosive jumping ability, they'd unlikely be in the league since their skill level isn't all that great.


I think everything you've said is right but I still share VolumePoster's concerns. If Mirotic isn't better than a solid role player it's going to be because he struggles with the athleticism of the pro game. Let's look at the 2013 allstars:

7 * Carmelo Anthony (Knicks) F 6-8 230 05/29/84 Syracuse/USA
6 * LeBron James (Heat) F 6-8 250 12/30/84 St. Vincent-St. Mary HS (OH)/USA
5 * Kevin Garnett (Celtics) C-F 6-11 253 05/19/76 Farragut Academy HS (IL)/USA
9 | Rajon Rondo (Celtics) G 6-1 186 02/22/86 Kentucky/USA
3 * Dwyane Wade (Heat) G 6-4 220 01/17/82 Marquette/USA
1 * Chris Bosh (Heat) C-F 6-11 235 03/24/84 Georgia Tech/USA
6 # Tyson Chandler (Knicks) C 7-1 240 10/02/82 Dominguez HS (CA)/USA
9 Luol Deng (Bulls) F 6-9 220 04/16/85 Duke/Sudan
24 # Paul George (Pacers) G-F 6-8 221 05/02/90 Fresno State/USA
11 # Jrue Holiday (76ers) G 6-4 205 06/12/90 UCLA/USA
2 # Kyrie Irving (Cavaliers) G 6-3 191 03/23/92 Duke/USA
11 # Brook Lopez (Nets) C 7-0 265 04/01/88 Stanford/USA
13 # Joakim Noah (Bulls) C 6-11 232 02/25/85 Florida/USA
Head Coach: Erik Spoelstra (Heat)
NO. PLAYER (TEAM) POS. HT. WT. BIRTHDATE FROM
35 * Kevin Durant (Thunder) F 6-9 235 09/29/88 Texas/USA
32 * Blake Griffin (Clippers) F 6-10 251 03/16/89 Oklahoma/USA
12 * Dwight Howard (Lakers) C 6-11 265 12/08/85 SW Atlanta Christian Academy (GA)/USA
24 * Kobe Bryant (Lakers) G 6-6 205 08/23/78 Lower Merion HS (PA)/USA
3 * Chris Paul (Clippers) G 6-0 175 05/06/85 Wake Forest/USA
12 LaMarcus Aldridge (Trail Blazers) F 6-11 240 07/19/85 Texas/USA
21 Tim Duncan (Spurs) F 6-11 255 04/25/76 Wake Forest/U.S. Virgin Islands
13 # James Harden (Rockets) G 6-5 220 08/26/89 Arizona State/USA
10 David Lee (Warriors) F-C 6-9 240 04/29/83 Florida/USA
9 Tony Parker (Spurs) G 6-2 185 05/17/82 Paris BR/France
50 Zach Randolph (Grizzlies) F 6-9 260 07/16/81 Michigan State/USA
0 Russell Westbrook (Thunder) G 6-3 187 11/12/88 UCLA/USA


How many of these players are average sized and also don't have the ability jump out of the barn? Duncan is big; Griffin can jump; Howard is big and can jump; LA is big; Duncan is big; Randolph has a huge wingspan; Noah is quick; Lopez is big; Bosh is big; Tyson is big and can move.

That leaves really only David Lee.

That's all I'm saying. Of course, Mirotic is a better shooter than any of these guys.

David Lee with a trey point shot would be one heck of a player though...Kevin Love is not the most explosive player, but the guy can flat out play.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#798 » by dougthonus » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:53 am

Mirotic is a bad ass in Euroleague/ACB.

Who knows what he'll be in the NBA, but his profile sure points to him having a pretty high floor.

It will be interesting to see what type of salary the Bulls will need to offer to bring him over. Full MLE for 3 years seems like a possibility.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#799 » by dafunky1 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:06 am

GimmeDat wrote:A couple of tweets from Chicago Bulls Rumors -

Real Madrid believes Nikola Mirotic is ready to join the Chicago Bulls next year. Madrid now looking for replacements. (Source: David Arcas)


Positive signs if true.. The wait really has been so long now!

Washington Wizards Jan Vesely agent is talking to Real Madrid about returning to Europe to replace Mirotic next season (Source: David Arcas)


^If this is the end of Vesely's NBA tenure, what a massive bust.. imagine if the Wiz drafted one of Vucevic (pick 16), Kawhi Leonard (15), Tobias Harris (19) instead.




Well,if true,then Boozer or Deng is sure as gone.I bet he is gonna open up the lanes for Rose with his shooting.This is why you want Mirotic,he compliments Rose quite nicely.He will help Noah too.
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Re: Mirotic ACB MVP 

Post#800 » by GimmeDat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:30 am

dafunky1 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:A couple of tweets from Chicago Bulls Rumors -

Real Madrid believes Nikola Mirotic is ready to join the Chicago Bulls next year. Madrid now looking for replacements. (Source: David Arcas)


Positive signs if true.. The wait really has been so long now!

Washington Wizards Jan Vesely agent is talking to Real Madrid about returning to Europe to replace Mirotic next season (Source: David Arcas)


^If this is the end of Vesely's NBA tenure, what a massive bust.. imagine if the Wiz drafted one of Vucevic (pick 16), Kawhi Leonard (15), Tobias Harris (19) instead.




Well,if true,then Boozer or Deng is sure as gone.I bet he is gonna open up the lanes for Rose with his shooting.This is why you want Mirotic,he compliments Rose quite nicely.He will help Noah too.


It almost feels bad to say bye to Boozer seeing as he's playing so well right now, but it's something that just has to happen, especially with Taj locked in as the backup.

It's a pity that we aren't in the same situation with Deng that we were a year or two ago, where we'd be able to package him with assets to get an established scoring 2. Mirotic should be a great boost but I think a change really is needed at the wings for us to be successful, there's just not enough shooting/scoring among JB/Deng.

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