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Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation

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Q00
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#21 » by Q00 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:10 pm

Clarity wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Sigh. Agreed.

There's simply no denying that our rotational problems stem partially from him being on the team and the need to minimize the amount of time he plays out of position.

Drummond appears to be better when he's not on the floor, and clearly Smith is more effective when he isn't out there with Monroe/Drummond.

This is a problem, to state the obvious.


Josh has never been, nor will he ever be a SF. He cant throw it in the ocean on his best day & he has frequent IQ lapses on offense that absolutely killed the Hawks & are happening with us as well.

That said he is very good at times on d & can form a very good defensive front line with our two bigs.

Drummond is much better without both our additions (Jennings doesnt look for him at all). Drummond is great with Will, unfortunately Drummond is the last person we can take off the floor (see his MPG this year) Last night is a prime example, he grabs 4 rebs in the first, the 2 other bigs grab 1 for the rest of the quarter when he sits. I think the rotations are good for the most part, although I would like to see more Gigi & KCP, not because I really think either is ready, but they are necessary right now. Spacing wasnt something those in the know just made up this past Summer. Its real & a huge problem right now.


Smith at SF on offense has worked fine. The frontcourt on offense has worked great. Anyone still talking about offensive spacing and teams "packing the paint" on us can't be serious. We are leading the league in points in the paint.

If teams are packing the paint on us, its not working because we are dominating them inside anyways. And because of it, our shooters are getting open looks all game. So how can you still be talking about offensive spacing? The spacing is fine. The shooters just aren't making anything. That is really the only problem with the offense. Guys who were expected to be able to make open 3's (Chauncey, Jennings, Singler, Datome, etc) have been brutal. Even despite that, our offense has been fine. When a Pistons team puts up over 100 ppg, they should be winning games. Its the defense that has been the problem.

If there has been any problem with Smith at SF, its on defense, not offense. He has not been able to keep up with the speed on the perimeter consistently. If that trend continues and is deemed to be the cause of our defensive woes, then they will need to make a lineup change, because we aren't going to win many games giving up 110-120 ppg. First things first though is getting a better defender than Chauncey at SG. That much is obvious, and could be enough difference to where they can get by with Smith at SF on defense, while still benefitting from what he gives you at that position on offense, which is about 18 ppg. Obviously offense is not the problem.

Smith without a doubt was a good signing. Anyone who thinks we would be better right now without him on the roster is fooling themselves. They just have to find the right way to use him, and there is definitely a use for a player of his caliber/skillset on this team. You don't become better by decreasing your talent. Not signing Smith would've made this an even worse team right now.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#22 » by Umbra » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:23 am

The solution actually dates to way back in 2009, which since then we've blown some drafts.

What we could have had

Lawson
George
Leonard/Parsons
Smith
Drummond

:drool:
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#23 » by Clarity » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:06 am

Q00 wrote:
Smith at SF on offense has worked fine. The frontcourt on offense has worked great. Anyone still talking about offensive spacing and teams "packing the paint" on us can't be serious. We are leading the league in points in the paint.

If teams are packing the paint on us, its not working because we are dominating them inside anyways. And because of it, our shooters are getting open looks all game. So how can you still be talking about offensive spacing? The spacing is fine. The shooters just aren't making anything. That is really the only problem with the offense. Guys who were expected to be able to make open 3's (Chauncey, Jennings, Singler, Datome, etc) have been brutal. Even despite that, our offense has been fine. When a Pistons team puts up over 100 ppg, they should be winning games. Its the defense that has been the problem.

If there has been any problem with Smith at SF, its on defense, not offense. He has not been able to keep up with the speed on the perimeter consistently. If that trend continues and is deemed to be the cause of our defensive woes, then they will need to make a lineup change, because we aren't going to win many games giving up 110-120 ppg. First things first though is getting a better defender than Chauncey at SG. That much is obvious, and could be enough difference to where they can get by with Smith at SF on defense, while still benefitting from what he gives you at that position on offense, which is about 18 ppg. Obviously offense is not the problem.

Smith without a doubt was a good signing. Anyone who thinks we would be better right now without him on the roster is fooling themselves. They just have to find the right way to use him, and there is definitely a use for a player of his caliber/skillset on this team. You don't become better by decreasing your talent. Not signing Smith would've made this an even worse team right now.


against Port we took 55 shots in the paint to get 60 points, that paint was clogged all night. Spacing is def part of the issue, guys have gotten open shots but missed them though, that is very accurate.

Defense has been an issue for the past 2 games, definitely agree there.

Agree to disagree on Smith, regardless like I said, hes here & im making the most of it. Hes definitely a talent.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#24 » by Clarity » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:07 am

Umbra wrote:The solution actually dates to way back in 2009, which since then we've blown some drafts.

What we could have had

Lawson
George
Leonard/Parsons
Smith
Drummond

:drool:


Every team in the pro sports could say this crap every single year, since the beginning of pro sports.

With respect to the Pistons, Joe has been spot on in the draft for the past couple years. Spot on!
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#25 » by Umbra » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:44 am

Clarity wrote:
Umbra wrote:The solution actually dates to way back in 2009, which since then we've blown some drafts.

What we could have had

Lawson
George
Leonard/Parsons
Smith
Drummond

:drool:


Every team in the pro sports could say this crap every single year, since the beginning of pro sports.

With respect to the Pistons, Joe has been spot on in the draft for the past couple years. Spot on!


You're calling my posts crap? :lol:
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#26 » by Q00 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:45 am

Clarity wrote:
Q00 wrote:
Smith at SF on offense has worked fine. The frontcourt on offense has worked great. Anyone still talking about offensive spacing and teams "packing the paint" on us can't be serious. We are leading the league in points in the paint.

If teams are packing the paint on us, its not working because we are dominating them inside anyways. And because of it, our shooters are getting open looks all game. So how can you still be talking about offensive spacing? The spacing is fine. The shooters just aren't making anything. That is really the only problem with the offense. Guys who were expected to be able to make open 3's (Chauncey, Jennings, Singler, Datome, etc) have been brutal. Even despite that, our offense has been fine. When a Pistons team puts up over 100 ppg, they should be winning games. Its the defense that has been the problem.

If there has been any problem with Smith at SF, its on defense, not offense. He has not been able to keep up with the speed on the perimeter consistently. If that trend continues and is deemed to be the cause of our defensive woes, then they will need to make a lineup change, because we aren't going to win many games giving up 110-120 ppg. First things first though is getting a better defender than Chauncey at SG. That much is obvious, and could be enough difference to where they can get by with Smith at SF on defense, while still benefitting from what he gives you at that position on offense, which is about 18 ppg. Obviously offense is not the problem.

Smith without a doubt was a good signing. Anyone who thinks we would be better right now without him on the roster is fooling themselves. They just have to find the right way to use him, and there is definitely a use for a player of his caliber/skillset on this team. You don't become better by decreasing your talent. Not signing Smith would've made this an even worse team right now.


against Port we took 55 shots in the paint to get 60 points, that paint was clogged all night. Spacing is def part of the issue, guys have gotten open shots but missed them though, that is very accurate.

Defense has been an issue for the past 2 games, definitely agree there.

Agree to disagree on Smith, regardless like I said, hes here & im making the most of it. Hes definitely a talent.


I agree that teams are packing in the paint on us, however we are still dominating inside at will, so that's not really affecting our spacing. We are pretty much getting any shot we want, from anywhere on the court at anytime, we just aren't making the ones from deep right now. The fact that it took 55 shots to score 60 in the paint doens't really mean anything because of the offensive rebounding. Its not like we are going one and done each time inside and it took 55 separate possesions on offense to get 60. A lot of them are on the same possesion, where we are just missing the first shot, then tipping in the miss. It might not look as good % wise, but its effectively the same dominance.

On defense, if you take out the Boston game, we have given up 109 ppg this year. Its more than just the last 2. Take out the Boston game, and we've yet to hold a team under 100 (ok, Pacers got 99 lol), but you see the point. Defense has been awful all year.

We have enough scorers on this team to where offense is never going to be much of a problem. Getting the defense in order is the key to start winning more games.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#27 » by Q00 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:50 am

Clarity wrote:
Umbra wrote:The solution actually dates to way back in 2009, which since then we've blown some drafts.

What we could have had

Lawson
George
Leonard/Parsons
Smith
Drummond

:drool:


Every team in the pro sports could say this crap every single year, since the beginning of pro sports.

With respect to the Pistons, Joe has been spot on in the draft for the past couple years. Spot on!


Thanks. I was literally going to say the same exact thing before even reading your response.

By the way, I'm not calling your post crap, Umbra, its just that I never bought into that mindset of draft re-do's. Because like Clarity said, you could go through and do that for every team in every sport and put together all-star rosters of guys they missed on. Its just the nature of the draft.

Geting Monroe/Drummond 7th and 9th, its hard to say anything negative about Dumars recent drafting for me.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#28 » by NCHeels2008 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:18 am

It's sad to say this but Drummond is just so good inside, I'm not sure the Pistons wouldn't play better with Jennings at the point, shooters at the 2-4 positions and Drummond manning the paint.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#29 » by coolness » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:44 pm

NCHeels2008 wrote:It's sad to say this but Drummond is just so good inside, I'm not sure the Pistons wouldn't play better with Jennings at the point, shooters at the 2-4 positions and Drummond manning the paint.


That would likely be an effective line-up.

This was:
Stuckey or Will Bynum
Kim English
Khris Middleton
Charlie Villanueva
Andre Drummond

WTF? That was Drummond's rookie year...and it really did work.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#30 » by Timmaytime » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:10 pm

The only thing we can do at this point is have one of them come off the bench, which i support it being Drummond.. Only let them play all three together for 3 or 4 minute per game. Move Singler or GiGi into the starting lineup and test that out

Jennings (32)-Billups/Bynum (16)
KCP (20)-Stuckey (28)
Singler (24)-Datome (18)- Smoove (6)
Smoove (28)- Monroe (20)
Monroe (15)- Drummond (33)
ComboGuardCity wrote:If Bellinelli drops 50 and we lose I’ll eat my dog
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#31 » by Clarity » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Q00 wrote:
Geting Monroe/Drummond 7th and 9th, its hard to say anything negative about Dumars recent drafting for me.


Its impossible, those were both grand slam drafts.

Q00 wrote:I agree that teams are packing in the paint on us, however we are still dominating inside at will, so that's not really affecting our spacing. We are pretty much getting any shot we want, from anywhere on the court at anytime, we just aren't making the ones from deep right now. The fact that it took 55 shots to score 60 in the paint doens't really mean anything because of the offensive rebounding. Its not like we are going one and done each time inside and it took 55 separate possesions on offense to get 60. A lot of them are on the same possesion, where we are just missing the first shot, then tipping in the miss. It might not look as good % wise, but its effectively the same dominance.

On defense, if you take out the Boston game, we have given up 109 ppg this year. Its more than just the last 2. Take out the Boston game, and we've yet to hold a team under 100 (ok, Pacers got 99 lol), but you see the point. Defense has been awful all year.

We have enough scorers on this team to where offense is never going to be much of a problem. Getting the defense in order is the key to start winning more games.


I dont have to agree that we are dominating in the paint, its a fact but we arent dominating even close to how much we should because of a combination of spacing issues & Jennings having tunnel vision.

Disagree on the defense, like I said our perimeter defense was awful vs GS & Por but they are elite at what they do on the perimeter. This is a run & gun league now, points are going to be scored. We need to get a whole lot better on d but we havent been nearly as bad as some have acted like, not even close.

Umbra wrote:
You're calling my posts crap? :lol:


lol, that one was & you know it.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#32 » by MediumNasty » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:16 am

bump for 6-10
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#33 » by DetroitPistons » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:28 am

I think Wilson Chandler, Luol Deng, and Harrison Barnes are guys we should target in a 3-team deal with Smith going somewhere else.
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Re: Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation 

Post#34 » by Clarity » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:43 am

DetroitPistons wrote:I think Wilson Chandler, Luol Deng, and Harrison Barnes are guys we should target in a 3-team deal with Smith going somewhere else.


Harrison Barnes is the type of piece we needed to add this past June, fits perfectly around Monroe & Drummond.

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