2014 Draft Thread

[bwgood77]

Remember when this was a draft thread, and not a thread about arguing semantics?

I might be wrong, but the thread title is called "Tankapalooza", is it not?

And we were discussing drafting, and tactics.

I think Dez has been the closest at picking the number one/two picks, but unless we win one of the top three spots, it won't matter to us. If we keep things up, our pick will most likely be ninth or higher.

Well I originally named it 2014 Draft Thread, but Tastic changed it to Tankapalooza, as mentioned on page four. I didn't really want this thread to turn into a pro-tanking thread....I just wanted to discuss college players and how they are doing.

[bigfoot]

Per Ryan McDonough

it's an insult to myself and my staff to think we can't [have success in the draft] without a top 5 pick, that we can't have success outside of the lottery.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1677168/AN-INSULT

THIS!

[bwgood77]

Per Ryan McDonough

it's an insult to myself and my staff to think we can't [have success in the draft] without a top 5 pick, that we can't have success outside of the lottery.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1677168/AN-INSULT

THIS!

Nice....I like..

"One of the reasons I'm here and one of the reasons we had great success in Boston was because of our success outside of the lottery," McDonough told Arizona Sports 620's Burns and Gambo. "Is it easier to be picking in the top 5? Sure. But in some ways it's an insult to myself and my staff to think we can't [have success in the draft] without a top 5 pick, that we can't have success outside of the lottery.

"If we do make the playoffs and are picking outside of the lottery, then that means our young players are pretty good. We have one of the youngest rosters, certainly one of the youngest rotations in the league. If Eric Bledsoe, Miles Plumlee, the Morris twins, Archie Goodwin and hopefully we get Alex Len back soon, if those guys all play well then that's great. I'd rather take my chances with those five or six guys going forward than putting all my eggs in one basket hoping one guy in the lottery is really good."

While the upcoming draft will unquestionably be stacked at the top, McDonough noted that quality players will likely be available regardless of the spot teams are picking from.

"This draft, I mean obviously we won't know until May exactly who's in it as far as which underclassmen are coming out, the depth is impressive," said McDonough. "That's one of the reasons we wanted to stockpile as many picks as we possibly could. Now, we have potentially four in the first round.

"There won't just be two, three, four or however many good players in this draft. And the other thing I want to say is that it's not always a linear progression. There's been no draft in NBA history where the first pick is the best player, the second pick is the second best player and so on. It doesn't work that way and it never has. If you go back and look at pretty much every drafts, there have are good players taken outside the top 5, outside the top 10 and a lot of the time and most of the time out of the lottery."

[Cutter]

You look at the players coming out in this draft, and you look at the teams that may end up with the high pick like Utah and Philadelphia and Toronto, teams that have been on the bottom for so long. Or have never been at the top, you can't blame the tank idea. Especially this year

And you can't simply apply a dishonest tactic to teams that are just bad.

When I say tank, I am always referring to management. Never the players (so that's clear).

With guys like Durant and LeBron in the league, it's necessary to have a star, or else there's little chance to dethrone them.

The reason the Pacers are in the running is because of George, their great size, and depth.

As nice as it is to see Morris and Bledsoe having big starts, these two are not going to lead us to a title. We need this coming draft to steer the franchise in the right direction long term.

Vague and non-specific DH. How exactly does management tank? Please be specific.

The only way I can think of is to intentionally trade good or great players for average or below average players in order to get really bad and improve your draft position. But if trading good players for bad players is how management tanks and tries to become really bad, then that's hard to understand as the league approves every trade. Stern and Sliver saw the Dudley for Butler, Bledsoe trade and didn't deny the trade on grounds of tanking. All player and draft pick movement is vetted and approved by the league, so if any teams' management is tanking then Stern rarely has a problem with it as he doesn't often cancel trades.

The only recent trade I can think of that was cancelled by Stern was the Chris Paul to Lakers trade. He might have thought the Pelicans (Hornets) were trying to tank by not getting enough back in return for CP3 and forced them to seek another trade partner (Clippers). If so it backfired because the Pels landed the number one pick that year and drafted Anthony Davis.

Other than trading good assets for bad assets how else can management tank? Maybe creating chaos during the year by firing the coach, temp hiring some one non qualified to run the team and creating disorganization. That's a pretty bad way to tank as it didn't work for the Suns very well last year yielding only a #5 pick.

All you pro-losing fans should be able to list a lot of ways management tanks, but hardly anybody ever does. It's always a statement that tanking is occurring as if it self evident, but when a burden of proof is asked for the only sound I hear is....

Crickets

[Cutter]

Remember when this was a draft thread, and not a thread about arguing semantics?

Clarity of meaning of words and statements is critical in real life....and NBA Suns forums

Politicians and political parties love to cloud and confuse the meaning of words and issues. When people are confused as to the meaning or intent of words they can draw misconstrued or uninformed opinions. An uninformed voter is easier to control and manipulate, and politicians love that.

This brings us to the concept of tank. Some confuse the concept of Tanking with the strategy of Rebuilding. When you Rebuild you typically (but not always) lose a lot of games as you trade aging but good players for prospects (Bledsoe) and picks. But with the pain of Rebuilding comes the chance a good draft pick in the lottery. There is something thrilling about your team getting a potential stud in the draft and hoping the live up to their potential. The acquisition of this pick was honest with both the players and the fans. Clarity of understanding of the word Rebuild is important.

Some confuse the concept of the word Tanking with A Badly Managed Team. This is the most common way teams lose a lot of games. Bad FA acquisitions, bad trades, injuries to key players, no chemistry, bad coaching, no cap space, trading picks etc.... This type of team is very common in the NBA (Suns being a recent example under Blanks) and the damage is usually done to the team over several seasons. It is not an orchestrated or dishonest attempt to get bad. It is just a badly Managed Team . No need to be confused by this concept. Clarity is your friend!

Clarity of the concept of Tanking. RDG has been carrying the flag in this fight and does a great job! This concept lives mainly in the minds of young 20 something year old posters on this and other forums. It is the concept that teams, as an organization, develop dishonest tactics to intentionally become bad in order to get a high pick. While it is fun to contemplate and stroke to the possibility of getting Wiggins in the draft, to somehow then translate that thought into an actionable plan by the team is immature and questionable. When a burden of proof is applied to pro-losers to back up their Tanking assertions, very limited proof is usually forthcoming. If dishonest losing is occurring then Stern doesn't agree as he has not sanctioned or fined any team for this action. If pro-losers can see tanking occurring, why can't the league?

[thamadkant]

So we've established players don't tank.

We've established that NO ONE here can find clear evidence that a team tanked or didn't tank.
We can only speculate based on what is presented to us.

We've established the pros and cons of a high pick.

We've established that the fan base is divided whether the league is "clean" or not.


In the end the debate will rage on and on and will likely never be solved with evidence.

+1 to my post count.

[BurningHeart]

Thank God Ryan McDonough said that. GOOD. You'd think that would be enough to shut the Draft Fetishists up.

"In McDonough We Trust" and all that, right?

[bwgood77]

I love the draft, but I've never wanted to tank. I love watching the Suns be competitive. I also hope they can get studs in the draft, regardless of where they pick.

Speaking of studs that will be in the draft, the AZ Wildcats and Aaron Gordon have their first true road test tonight at San Diego St. Should be a good game. Last year the game between the two came down to the last shot.

[thamadkant]

All I really want is Archie Goodwin and Len to develop to be stud players.

And its great to hear McD mention their names in his statement, showing he is high on them.

[Cutter]

I love the draft, but I've never wanted to tank. I love watching the Suns be competitive. I also hope they can get studs in the draft, regardless of where they pick.

Speaking of studs that will be in the draft, the AZ Wildcats and Aaron Gordon have their first true road test tonight at San Diego St. Should be a good game. Last year the game between the two came down to the last shot.

Good post 77.

[Blackification]

I trust McD to snatch up the right player in a trade. He has proven to be best at drafting towards the middle or end of the first round and finding some gems. With 3 mid picks he will get at least one steal in this draft. Snatching up a guy like Love in a trade or free agency will really turn things up.

One thing I did notice is that he didn't mention Dragic, I hate to be that guy to point it out since it can be that he just forgot or he was specifically talking about guys younger than dragic but who knows maybe dragic isn't as valuable to McD as I hoped.

[bwgood77]

Wow, Gottlieb, while announcing the AZ/SDSU game just predicted Arizona to win the national championship. Also predicted McDermott to win player of the year. Aaron Gordon looking good, but a ton of players for AZ in foul trouble, and although AZ has been leading by a decent margin the whole game, SDSU is closing the gap near the end. It sounds like he thinks Gordon could be every bit as good as the other big names in the draft.

Also mentioned that the other night Randle did nothing in the first half, and that he blossomed in the second half mostly because he was being guarded by a 6'5 guy because Payne was sitting with foul trouble.

[DRK]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DHj-MhGBjU[/youtube]
Here's out future starting small forward folks.

[asudevil]

Aaron Gordon from UofA is slotted in the mid 20's right now according the NBADraft.net. His comparison.......Beasley. His stock will probably rise as the season goes on.

[RunDogGun]

Aaron Gordon from UofA is slotted in the mid 20's right now according the NBADraft.net. His comparison.......Beasley. His stock will probably rise as the season goes on.

He is listed #5 on DX.

We need to draft Wang Zhelin with our second round pick.

[asudevil]

Aaron Gordon from UofA is slotted in the mid 20's right now according the NBADraft.net. His comparison.......Beasley. His stock will probably rise as the season goes on.

He is listed #5 on DX.

We need to draft Wang Zhelin with our second round pick.

LOL...should have checked DX. I just thought the comparison was rather comical.

[RunDogGun]

Or with our second rounder or super late first, draft LeBryan Nash. He could wear #13, and make my jerseys relevant again.

[DirtyDez]

Wow, Gottlieb, while announcing the AZ/SDSU game just predicted Arizona to win the national championship. Also predicted McDermott to win player of the year. Aaron Gordon looking good, but a ton of players for AZ in foul trouble, and although AZ has been leading by a decent margin the whole game, SDSU is closing the gap near the end. It sounds like he thinks Gordon could be every bit as good as the other big names in the draft.

Also mentioned that the other night Randle did nothing in the first half, and that he blossomed in the second half mostly because he was being guarded by a 6'5 guy because Payne was sitting with foul trouble.

It's too bad the dumb new rules plus incompetent MWC refs limited Gordon/Ashley from truly dominating tonight. Both will have special seasons and probably declare. Hopefully Tarc sticks around.

[E-Buck]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DHj-MhGBjU[/youtube]
Here's out future starting small forward folks.

Oh man would I love to have him on the Suns. Where is he predicted to go?

[Ryu]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DHj-MhGBjU[/youtube]
Here's out future starting small forward folks.

Oh man would I love to have him on the Suns. Where is he predicted to go?

He should be available in the 20`s. I`d take him with Indy pick.

There are a lot of athletic SF`s who should be available from 10th-30th pick. Robinson, Young, Selden, Poythress, Grant, Warren, Hood, Dekker...