John Wall is the best PG in the East right now

[barelyawake]

Wall is much like Arenas in one way. He's a rhythm player capable of long hot streaks and significant cold streaks. And he's obviously a slow starter. His so-so start is not surprising to me at all. I'd expect him to play better as the year goes on. And that's not too uncommon with many vets to be honest.

And Arenas never had the emotional temperament or leadership abilities to carry a championship team either. Thus why we needed a true leader and star big back then as well (instead of AJ).

[lastemp3ror]

IMO, Wall won't be worth his salary until he learns how to shoot and/or can run a decent half court offense. His jump shot still looks aweful and I cringe every time he takes a shot.

[nuposse04]

IMO, Wall won't be worth his salary until he learns how to shoot and/or can run a decent half court offense. His jump shot still looks aweful and I cringe every time he takes a shot.

his playmaking is fine, it is his shot selection that seems off. He's noticeably better from 3pt land, I'd rather he take more 3s then long 2s. He's settling a lot in general with the long 2s. I'm not sure why. He was very aggressive last season, not so much now. Unless its a stamina thing, the ball should be working through him almost every time he's on the floor. I'm not going to panic yet, but if we're like 5-15 at some point....some changes need to be made.

[AFM]

Wall is much like Arenas in one way. He's a rhythm player capable of long hot streaks and significant cold streaks. And he's obviously a slow starter. His so-so start is not surprising to me at all. I'd expect him to play better as the year goes on. And that's not too uncommon with many vets to be honest.

Yes, in one way and only one way.
Arenas was a superior player in every other way. (Well except maybe defense).

Arenas could put the entire team on his back any night he wanted. Wall can't do that (yet) and I'm not sure he will ever be able to.

[dobrojim]

that's why we went undefeated in the Arenas era? Oh wait, that didn't happen.
Gil just felt it was more interesting if the other team won sometimes?

[AFM]

Yes, he had quite the flair for drama. Don't you remember?

[verbal8]

that's why we went undefeated in the Arenas era? Oh wait, that didn't happen.
Gil just felt it was more interesting if the other team won sometimes?

I thought Laron Profit was the one who occasionally allowed other teams to win.

Morris Almond however had the killer instinct that previous Wizard's greats lacked and refused the let the other team win.

[dobrojim]

Mo Almond, not that CCJ probably cares much, just turned up in a post
on the gen board of overhyped players who turned out to be busts.
Probably not fair for Almond to be there. He wasn't overhyped.

[tontoz]

I'm pretty sure the existence of this thread is going to come back to haunt some people down the line. It's a ridiculous discussion.

You were also sure that the Arenas trade would devastate the franchise for years to come.


Any talk of Wall being a bust is idiocy. Guys who win NBA player of the month aren't busts.

There is a risk of Wall becoming the Josh Smith of pgs, being a disappointment relative to his potential.

[manifested]

There is a risk of Wall becoming the Josh Smith of pgs, being a disappointment relative to his potential.

Interesting comparison.

Anyone remember how Webber used to get criticized in DC for not having any polished post moves despite being pretty skilled with his passing and face up game? Wall reminds me a bit of that. He's not totally unskilled, but he doesn't display the type of conventional skills you'd expect in an elite point guard. Few flashy dimes, below average shooter, not a tight ball handler, not an acrobatic finisher around the hoop.

What he can do is force the other team to play to his speed, generate transition looks, and get his teammates 3 point looks. He's gotten pretty brilliant at setting up the corner 3 which is amazing because teams know that's where he wants to go with the ball. RG3 could learn a little from Wall about looking defenders off to pass it where you want to go. And he comes up with some spectacular steals/blocks on defense (but needs more consistency).

Wall's not good in the ways you'd expect from someone who was touted as a Wade/Rose type of athlete coming out of school (doesn't have the same body control or scoring/finishing instincts) and he doesn't look like a traditional point guard. He hasn't met the expectations, and if he doesn't improve his shooting to average, it'll be a disappointment given what he'll be paid on the new contract. But his strengths right now are very valuable.

[Illmatic21]

There is a risk of Wall becoming the Josh Smith of pgs, being a disappointment relative to his potential.

Interesting comparison.

Anyone remember how Webber used to get criticized in DC for not having any polished post moves despite being pretty skilled with his passing and face up game? Wall reminds me a bit of that. He's not totally unskilled, but he doesn't display the type of conventional skills you'd expect in an elite point guard. Few flashy dimes, below average shooter, not a tight ball handler, not an acrobatic finisher around the hoop.

What he can do is force the other team to play to his speed, generate transition looks, and get his teammates 3 point looks. He's gotten pretty brilliant at setting up the corner 3 which is amazing because teams know that's where he wants to go with the ball. RG3 could learn a little from Wall about looking defenders off to pass it where you want to go. And he comes up with some spectacular steals/blocks on defense (but needs more consistency).

Wall's not good in the ways you'd expect from someone who was touted as a Wade/Rose type of athlete coming out of school (doesn't have the same body control or scoring/finishing instincts) and he doesn't look like a traditional point guard. He hasn't met the expectations, and if he doesn't improve his shooting to average, it'll be a disappointment given what he'll be paid on the new contract. But his strengths right now are very valuable.

Wall won't be an all-time great.. he doesn't have the preternatural basketball ability that certain players have. But he can be very, very good for us once he learns the importance of playing aggressively all the time.

Wall has to learn that being passive is not an option for someone who possesses such a great size and speed advantage on a nightly basis. Dancing around on the perimeter and lackadaisically shooting jumpers neutralizes his best asset as a player. I think it's eventually going to "click" for Wall in the next few weeks (similar to last year, but earlier in the season this time), and when it does he'll never look back.

[dlts20]

There is a risk of Wall becoming the Josh Smith of pgs, being a disappointment relative to his potential.

Interesting comparison.

Anyone remember how Webber used to get criticized in DC for not having any polished post moves despite being pretty skilled with his passing and face up game? Wall reminds me a bit of that. He's not totally unskilled, but he doesn't display the type of conventional skills you'd expect in an elite point guard. Few flashy dimes, below average shooter, not a tight ball handler, not an acrobatic finisher around the hoop.

What he can do is force the other team to play to his speed, generate transition looks, and get his teammates 3 point looks. He's gotten pretty brilliant at setting up the corner 3 which is amazing because teams know that's where he wants to go with the ball. RG3 could learn a little from Wall about looking defenders off to pass it where you want to go. And he comes up with some spectacular steals/blocks on defense (but needs more consistency).

Wall's not good in the ways you'd expect from someone who was touted as a Wade/Rose type of athlete coming out of school (doesn't have the same body control or scoring/finishing instincts) and he doesn't look like a traditional point guard. He hasn't met the expectations, and if he doesn't improve his shooting to average, it'll be a disappointment given what he'll be paid on the new contract. But his strengths right now are very valuable.

Wall won't be an all-time great.. he doesn't have the preternatural basketball ability that certain players have. But he can be very, very good for us once he learns the importance of playing aggressively all the time.

Wall has to learn that being passive is not an option for someone who possesses such a great size and speed advantage on a nightly basis. Dancing around on the perimeter and lackadaisically shooting jumpers neutralizes his best asset as a player. I think it's eventually going to "click" for Wall in the next few weeks (similar to last year, but earlier in the season this time), and when it does he'll never look back.

damn, no bs. That sounded like me talking. I was seriously going to come on here and post nearly the same exact thing, literally......lol

Just be aggressive and stop being nonchalant. He'll get it. It'll click. Its annoying that we always have to wait for it but Ill give him and some of the team a pass. I think they are still somewhat feeling eachother out with Gortat coming in late, having everyone healthy for once, and then Ariza over Webster. Just an adjustment that you cant really be ready for until teh games start.

Thats another reason why I think Wall is passive. Its time to turn it up now. Cant let Kyrie embarrass him and other guys after that. You dont want to just be playing regular when every other star is trying to play like a star. If you fail then you fail but atleast try. If he tries then I dont think he has any chance of failing

[Illmatic21]

Interesting comparison.

Anyone remember how Webber used to get criticized in DC for not having any polished post moves despite being pretty skilled with his passing and face up game? Wall reminds me a bit of that. He's not totally unskilled, but he doesn't display the type of conventional skills you'd expect in an elite point guard. Few flashy dimes, below average shooter, not a tight ball handler, not an acrobatic finisher around the hoop.

What he can do is force the other team to play to his speed, generate transition looks, and get his teammates 3 point looks. He's gotten pretty brilliant at setting up the corner 3 which is amazing because teams know that's where he wants to go with the ball. RG3 could learn a little from Wall about looking defenders off to pass it where you want to go. And he comes up with some spectacular steals/blocks on defense (but needs more consistency).

Wall's not good in the ways you'd expect from someone who was touted as a Wade/Rose type of athlete coming out of school (doesn't have the same body control or scoring/finishing instincts) and he doesn't look like a traditional point guard. He hasn't met the expectations, and if he doesn't improve his shooting to average, it'll be a disappointment given what he'll be paid on the new contract. But his strengths right now are very valuable.

Wall won't be an all-time great.. he doesn't have the preternatural basketball ability that certain players have. But he can be very, very good for us once he learns the importance of playing aggressively all the time.

Wall has to learn that being passive is not an option for someone who possesses such a great size and speed advantage on a nightly basis. Dancing around on the perimeter and lackadaisically shooting jumpers neutralizes his best asset as a player. I think it's eventually going to "click" for Wall in the next few weeks (similar to last year, but earlier in the season this time), and when it does he'll never look back.

damn, no bs. That sounded like me talking. I was seriously going to come on here and post nearly the same exact thing, literally......lol

Just be aggressive and stop being nonchalant. He'll get it. It'll click. Its annoying that we always have to wait for it but Ill give him and some of the team a pass. I think they are still somewhat feeling eachother out with Gortat coming in late, having everyone healthy for once, and then Ariza over Webster. Just an adjustment that you cant really be ready for until teh games start.

Thats another reason why I think Wall is passive. Its time to turn it up now. Cant let Kyrie embarrass him and other guys after that. You dont want to just be playing regular when every other star is trying to play like a star. If you fail then you fail but atleast try. If he tries then I dont think he has any chance of failing

Well, Kyrie is sort of going through the same thing himself. Even Derrick Rose looks as bad or worse than Wall has so far. Learning to be constantly aggressive yet in control is an art that a lot of young PGs have trouble mastering.

That's why I love Russell Westbrook, he's in constant attack mode on both ends of the floor, for better or worse. Sure, his playing style gets him in trouble quite a bit and yes, he has a superstar teammate to bail him out. But based on comments I've heard from players and coaches around the league, he has a rep as one of the toughest, if not the toughest point guard to play against (Steph Curry named Westbrook and Parker as his toughest matchups.. no CP3). Even if Russ isn't actually the best PG in the league, he went out and established that rep for himself as the guy who makes opposing PGs lose sleep the night before they face him. That's what we want Wall to take it upon himself to do.. he certainly has the tools to do so.

During his hot streak last year, I remember a lot of coaches commenting postgame about how Wall was an absolute load for their teams to deal with, and how they now have to deal with yet another Westbrook/Rose in the league. If he gets back to that level, this team is going places.

[hands11]

Wall is much like Arenas in one way. He's a rhythm player capable of long hot streaks and significant cold streaks. And he's obviously a slow starter. His so-so start is not surprising to me at all. I'd expect him to play better as the year goes on. And that's not too uncommon with many vets to be honest.

And Arenas never had the emotional temperament or leadership abilities to carry a championship team either. Thus why we needed a true leader and star big back then as well (instead of AJ).

Question

Who was the emotional leader of this team last year ?

[hands11]

Interesting comparison.

Anyone remember how Webber used to get criticized in DC for not having any polished post moves despite being pretty skilled with his passing and face up game? Wall reminds me a bit of that. He's not totally unskilled, but he doesn't display the type of conventional skills you'd expect in an elite point guard. Few flashy dimes, below average shooter, not a tight ball handler, not an acrobatic finisher around the hoop.

What he can do is force the other team to play to his speed, generate transition looks, and get his teammates 3 point looks. He's gotten pretty brilliant at setting up the corner 3 which is amazing because teams know that's where he wants to go with the ball. RG3 could learn a little from Wall about looking defenders off to pass it where you want to go. And he comes up with some spectacular steals/blocks on defense (but needs more consistency).

Wall's not good in the ways you'd expect from someone who was touted as a Wade/Rose type of athlete coming out of school (doesn't have the same body control or scoring/finishing instincts) and he doesn't look like a traditional point guard. He hasn't met the expectations, and if he doesn't improve his shooting to average, it'll be a disappointment given what he'll be paid on the new contract. But his strengths right now are very valuable.

Wall won't be an all-time great.. he doesn't have the preternatural basketball ability that certain players have. But he can be very, very good for us once he learns the importance of playing aggressively all the time.

Wall has to learn that being passive is not an option for someone who possesses such a great size and speed advantage on a nightly basis. Dancing around on the perimeter and lackadaisically shooting jumpers neutralizes his best asset as a player. I think it's eventually going to "click" for Wall in the next few weeks (similar to last year, but earlier in the season this time), and when it does he'll never look back.

damn, no bs. That sounded like me talking. I was seriously going to come on here and post nearly the same exact thing, literally......lol

Just be aggressive and stop being nonchalant. He'll get it. It'll click. Its annoying that we always have to wait for it but Ill give him and some of the team a pass. I think they are still somewhat feeling eachother out with Gortat coming in late, having everyone healthy for once, and then Ariza over Webster. Just an adjustment that you cant really be ready for until teh games start.

Thats another reason why I think Wall is passive. Its time to turn it up now. Cant let Kyrie embarrass him and other guys after that. You dont want to just be playing regular when every other star is trying to play like a star. If you fail then you fail but atleast try. If he tries then I dont think he has any chance of failing

Lost is all this noise is this.

Wall ran several pick an rolls back to back to back last night. Using the bounds pass.

Two to Gortat
One to Nene

That was the story of last nights game. All 3 had positive results

Thats huge.

Gortats offense is based on pick n roll. Its going to be huge for the team to be able to turn to that play as a foundational play of the offense.

People are over reacting to their record. At least right now they are. Later there may be legit reason to panic. Right now their isn't.

[dlts20]

Wall won't be an all-time great.. he doesn't have the preternatural basketball ability that certain players have. But he can be very, very good for us once he learns the importance of playing aggressively all the time.

Wall has to learn that being passive is not an option for someone who possesses such a great size and speed advantage on a nightly basis. Dancing around on the perimeter and lackadaisically shooting jumpers neutralizes his best asset as a player. I think it's eventually going to "click" for Wall in the next few weeks (similar to last year, but earlier in the season this time), and when it does he'll never look back.

damn, no bs. That sounded like me talking. I was seriously going to come on here and post nearly the same exact thing, literally......lol

Just be aggressive and stop being nonchalant. He'll get it. It'll click. Its annoying that we always have to wait for it but Ill give him and some of the team a pass. I think they are still somewhat feeling eachother out with Gortat coming in late, having everyone healthy for once, and then Ariza over Webster. Just an adjustment that you cant really be ready for until teh games start.

Thats another reason why I think Wall is passive. Its time to turn it up now. Cant let Kyrie embarrass him and other guys after that. You dont want to just be playing regular when every other star is trying to play like a star. If you fail then you fail but atleast try. If he tries then I dont think he has any chance of failing

Lost is all this noise is this.

Wall ran several pick an rolls back to back to back last night. Using the bounds pass.

Two to Gortat
One to Nene

That was the story of last nights game. All 3 had positive results

Thats huge.

Gortats offense is based on pick n roll. Its going to be huge for the team to be able to turn to that play as a foundational play of the offense.

People are over reacting to their record. At least right now they are. Later there may be legit reason to panic. Right now their isn't.

its not lost to me but both Gortat & Nene have been inconsistent at finishing or even catching the ball cleanly. Still, all that is great and we can be a good playoff team with that while Wall can be a boarderline All Star but if Wall attacks then I think we can be a team that no one wants to play and Wall will be closer to the All NBA list than he is to all star. He has that talent and we have enough scorers/shooters around him. Our D is suspect and hopefully it gets better. Our Offensive scheme is also suspect but still Wall is good enough to make us deadly and keep us in every single game. He can be a 20 & 10 with 44+% kinda player if he wants to. Even better than that on alot of nights but he has to go for it.

My problem with Wall is a few things. 1 is he gets down on himself quicker than any star in this league and once that happens then he goes into a scared, passive shell. 2 is that I believe he lets other influences dictate the way he plays. 3 is that he overthinks alot of times. He'll mess up a good thing by overthinking instead of just letting it play out. 4th and worst of all is that he's consistent in his inconsistent play. Meaning, he'll play 1 way for 10 games, then something happens which makes him change and he'll play that way for 10 games, and so on. Just be yourself.

Nene is talking about he needs to go watch tape of the Spurs game but I want him to go watch tape of him dominating last year. Nene is not going to take this team to elite status and neitehr is Gortat. Beal is great but more of a robin. Its all about Wall. He's the only guy who can take us there but now Im afraid that Nene & Witt's words will make him more passive. It still can be good enough to get us W's but we wont be great until he gets aggressive again. The said part about it is that he might not ever try to play that way unless we play a stretch without Beal or Nene

[barelyawake]

Wall is much like Arenas in one way. He's a rhythm player capable of long hot streaks and significant cold streaks. And he's obviously a slow starter. His so-so start is not surprising to me at all. I'd expect him to play better as the year goes on. And that's not too uncommon with many vets to be honest.

And Arenas never had the emotional temperament or leadership abilities to carry a championship team either. Thus why we needed a true leader and star big back then as well (instead of AJ).

Question

Who was the emotional leader of this team last year ?

We were awful last year, so does it matter? But the answer is Okafor. Was he a leader who could bring a team to a championship? No. But he had enough pull to settle Wall down.

[hands11]

dlts20

There is a lot of truth to what you wrote. What I think it is, to some degree, is what I call... The gears are grinding. Both with the team and in Walls head. The team is not all on the same page regarding approach on a consistent enough basis. Wall in a lot of ways natively is a one on one type player. Not saying he is always shooting but even when he creates a pass, its often a one on one thing. And we are watching Beal trying to expand his game with individual moves.

But most the rest of the team needs the team to be a system team. SA is a system team. Parker makes one on one moves, but mostly driving. But the offense is a system designed to move the defense and open spacing with pump faking, cutting and quick passing. Nene, Gortat, Beal and Webster would all work in a system approach like that. And in a system approach like that, you don't need a shinny star PG doing it on his own. You need a grinder like Parker who is trying to get to the rim for a layup.

2nd thing. I see SA score, and they almost act like the ball didn't just go through the basket. They get right into their defense. Its onto the next task. Wizards score and to often that player is all proud of themselves. Thats a huge difference. SA see the game as a task to complete. Wizards see a bucket as a task to complete and celebrate.

One focuses on team, system and big picture goal, the other is look what I just did with my skills.

Randy wants the offense to be a system. Wiz have an assistant that is from SA. I think they want an offense and team approach like that and you hear Randy preaching it. They don't want to be like NY, OKC or LAC.

I think sometimes Wall gets caught up in the Melo, Kobe, Westbrook style of look at me basketball vs the TD, Dirk, Parker, Nash approach.

Some of the Wizards roster can run a system like SA, but the roster is not complete with players that can do it at that level. Ves is actually a good system player. Way better then Kevin S is. Ves just needs to learn to shoot a mid range. If he could, he would actually fit in a SA pretty well. And if you look at a lot of the other Wizards pieces, they could run a system like that. Specially with their 3 ball shooting and Nene as a post passer. What they are missing is Wall driving and being consistent in a system approach, and a Manu.

But a lot of it does have to do with what Wall is doing or not doing and how efficient he is. I saw Parker run that same baseline play Wall does where he comes from the top around the baseline and receives the ball. But when Parker ran it, he cut a lot tighter so when he was coming up from the baseline he got the ball and dribble right into the lane from the left side about 7 feet from the basket. Then did a Parker dip the shoulder move to get some separation and then it was right into an easy layup.

I think Wall can get there. He just has a few moments where he reverts to the look at me style of basketball vs the just be effective style a Parker plays. So we wanted Wall to develop a J and expand his range. He has made good progress with that. Now he needs to get back to just running the system. Move the defense. Probe to get to the rim. Don't fall in love with the jumper. Its shouldn't be his go to move, it should have been an additional option.

Don't try to be Westbrook. Try to be Parker/Rondo type. That's what the Wizards need.

[hands11]

As for who I think the emotional leader was...

I say it was and is Webster. I see Okafor more as the Rock. Mr maturity. The professor. That's was important for the team but Webster is the guy I think pulls it all together and gets them to play right.

Webster starting again is going to be good for this team. I think he has a good effect on Wall and Beal. Trevor A can play, but he is way to quiet and shy a guy to be that kind of leader.

Webster I think is the glue between the young players and the vets. He has that single focus and fire that helps this team operate more smoothly.

I think taking Webster from the starting group really diminished his impact on the team.

Martell Webster on the San Antonio Spurs - Nov. 26, 2012

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZD9g4djDr8[/youtube]

A year later.
http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... e-11-13-13

35 minutes last night, Webby was 21 pts 10 rebounds, 4 steals and 2 assists.

This is the guy I think makes this team tick.

[JonathanJoseph]

I'm pretty sure the existence of this thread is going to come back to haunt some people down the line. It's a ridiculous discussion.

You were also sure that the Arenas trade would devastate the franchise for years to come.


Any talk of Wall being a bust is idiocy. Guys who win NBA player of the month aren't busts.

There is a risk of Wall becoming the Josh Smith of pgs, being a disappointment relative to his potential.

You're right. Guys who win NBA player of the month aren't busts. John Wall has never won player of the month.

He's been player of the week. Once. That's an honor he shares with the likes of other NBA greats like Grevis Vasquez, Nikola Pekovic, Ersan Illyasova and Goran Dragic.