GT: Wizards @ Spurs - 11/13/13 - 8:30 PM

[hands11]

Gotta give the people what they want.

LOl that was when he started off pretty well, he should have stopped after he missed a few jumpers. Instead should have went for drives.

Dude just kept shooting, looking like Irving out there.

I agree that Wall got a little out of control last night, but I don't think it is as easy as some people think for Wall just to "drive" to the basket. Teams are scheming to prevent Wall from driving to the hole (by packing the paint) and are daring him to take that open jumper. Wall needs to learn not to take that bait all the time and keep the ball moving (similar to how Rondo plays). He also needs to continue to improve his jump shot so he can hit that open shot sometimes. IMHO, those are the areas that he needs to improve, not just drive right into the teeth of the defense.

I mostly agree. More skills. More sound decision making. But at the end of the day, its about every player on the floor doing the same. Thats what you see in SA. Its a machine. That's what Nene is talking about. Open players should shoot or at least ball fake to shoot to move the defender. That put pressure on the defense to have to cover everyone. Thats why Ves has to at least face the basket and launch some. Then he can pump fake. But open players also have to be able to hit those shots. That is on EG but its also on Randy with his line ups and coaching. He should tell Ves, look if you aren't going to shoot, at least pump fake sometimes. And besides that, if you are open, I want you to shoot from the outside or make a move at least 4 times if you play 20 minutes. I don't care if you miss. You have to do that to keep the floor spread. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you are useless to me. Go practice more until you are.

They were with in 3 to end the 3rd. Wall is mostly the reason they blow that lead. Then he was injured and there was no chance for him to repair the damage. At the end of the day, its about leadership. Everyone on SA knows that crap would not fly with Pops. Any player on the team including Parker and Duncan would get benched for that kind of crap. Only player that comes close to doing that on SA is Manu and he has gotten benched for it.

Its an offensive system. You should always default to that. They have no Kobe on the team. Nene is right.

[hands11]

^ Yep, Wall basically single-handedly killed the team's momentum at the end of the third after we'd cut it to 3. Wittman basically was talking directly to him here:

“We came down and took six of the worst shots you could possibly take,” Coach Randy Wittman said. “Zero or one pass. All of a sudden, we’re going to be play hero. We can’t do that. We don’t have a hero here. We have to play five guys.”

This team needs an old point guard on the roster that can give Wall some insight into what it means to play the position in the half-court. For whatever reason Sam Cassell hasn't been able to do that as an assistant coach. It would be preferable if it's a guy that could also help on the court, but I'd settle for a 15th man that would never be active but could at least run with the guys in practice and take Wall under his wing.

I thought that is what Maynor was for. Hopefully, Temple backs up Wall and that is what we see moving forward.

As for Sam, I would be fine with them replacing him. Time for some new blood there.

[hands11]

The Spurs dare players to take the **** shot. Especially a guy like Wall, who's going to make 40% of them, best case. They're giving Wall a sucker's bet. And yeah, it's a definitely a mind game. Wall oughta be watching tape of Rondo play. He had no problem passing up that shot. He also is a master at closing space between himself and defenders giving him that shot, and then going by them into the lane.

[hands11]

If Wall underperforms this year Ted has to let EG go. Ted can't take the hit himself even if he does sign the checks.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Wall doesn't have to play like a max player until next year. He gets this entire season and another off season to learn.

We should know if he is worth max by about Jan 2015. Any talk of it before hand is just jumping the gun and misguided.

Had they not max contracted him, he would be playing for the exact same amount right now, but going into next year as an RFA.

[LyricalRico]

^ Yep, Wall basically single-handedly killed the team's momentum at the end of the third after we'd cut it to 3. Wittman basically was talking directly to him here:

“We came down and took six of the worst shots you could possibly take,” Coach Randy Wittman said. “Zero or one pass. All of a sudden, we’re going to be play hero. We can’t do that. We don’t have a hero here. We have to play five guys.”

This team needs an old point guard on the roster that can give Wall some insight into what it means to play the position in the half-court. For whatever reason Sam Cassell hasn't been able to do that as an assistant coach. It would be preferable if it's a guy that could also help on the court, but I'd settle for a 15th man that would never be active but could at least run with the guys in practice and take Wall under his wing.

I thought that is what Maynor was for. Hopefully, Temple backs up Wall and that is what we see moving forward.

As for Sam, I would be fine with them replacing him. Time for some new blood there.

Well, the Maynor signing struck me as filling the desire for a change-of-pace guy that wouldn't turn the ball over. But I never thought of him as a mentor for Wall. I'm thinking more of an Andre Miller type.

Actually, at this point, even a guy like Steve Nash would be interesting. He's clearly done as an impact player, but if he would embrace a 10-12 mpg role as a backup and mentor for Wall I'd consider dealing Nene for Nash+filler.

[hands11]

^ Yep, Wall basically single-handedly killed the team's momentum at the end of the third after we'd cut it to 3. Wittman basically was talking directly to him here:



This team needs an old point guard on the roster that can give Wall some insight into what it means to play the position in the half-court. For whatever reason Sam Cassell hasn't been able to do that as an assistant coach. It would be preferable if it's a guy that could also help on the court, but I'd settle for a 15th man that would never be active but could at least run with the guys in practice and take Wall under his wing.

I thought that is what Maynor was for. Hopefully, Temple backs up Wall and that is what we see moving forward.

As for Sam, I would be fine with them replacing him. Time for some new blood there.

Well, the Maynor signing struck me as filling the desire for a change-of-pace guy that wouldn't turn the ball over. But I never thought of him as a mentor for Wall. I'm thinking more of an Andre Miller type.

Actually, at this point, even a guy like Steve Nash would be interesting. He's clearly done as an impact player, but if he would embrace a 10-12 mpg role as a backup and mentor for Wall I'd consider dealing Nene for Nash+filler.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

Can't be Nash.

Wow, LAs next year signed players...

Steve Nash
Robert Sacre
Elias Harris

[LyricalRico]

^ Curious as to why we couldn't trade for Nash? LA has plenty of salary filler to make the numbers work. And assuming Kobe wants to play for another couple years, they're going to need a big. Nash's deal is a year shorter than Nene's so he'd have the added advantage of helping our longterm salary situation.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Per CSNWashington

Ariza went down Wednesday in the Wizards' 92-79 loss at the San Antonio Spurs after playing just 17 minutes.

He had an MRI scheduled Thursday, but the injury is not expected to be season-ending.

There goes our best trade asset. At least Ernie won't be able to mess up our cap space available for the offseason.

[hands11]

^ Curious as to why we couldn't trade for Nash? LA has plenty of salary filler to make the numbers work. And assuming Kobe wants to play for another couple years, they're going to need a big. Nash's deal is a year shorter than Nene's so he'd have the added advantage of helping our longterm salary situation.

I guess I used a poor choice of word.

Of course we could.

[Jimmy Recard]

At this point i would rather have the corpse of Derek Fisher backing up Wall rather than Maynor

[FreeBalling]

If Wall underperforms this year Ted has to let EG go. Ted can't take the hit himself even if he does sign the checks.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Wall doesn't have to play like a max player until next year. He gets this entire season and another off season to learn.

We should know if he is worth max by about Jan 2015. Any talk of it before hand is just jumping the gun and misguided.

Had they not max contracted him, he would be playing for the exact same amount right now, but going into next year as an RFA.

Hands, I understand how venture capital funding works. I'm just not seeing the results as a silent partner. I believe in paying for performance. This is the Real GM and my GM thoughts are to pay Wall on production and not on HOPE.

What if, Wall underpreforms? Does he still get MAX DOLLARS for HOPE if he was not signed last year?

[jivelikenice]

Wall and the max is so irrelevant right now. What's relevant is how do you get Wall to play like the player he was the last two months of last year while translating that into wins. Obsessing about what he makes is a useless exercise. And it's naive to think you don't pay for future potential production. Ad I'd rather pay based on potential versus past production. Gimme a young player who has shown upside (minus consistency) versus guys like Joe Johnson and Arenas who got max deals based on what they were.....

And while I was very disappointed in Wall yesterday,until then he had been solid and the starters as a whole had played well. The top 3 reasons for 2-6 is the bench, schedule, and coaching in that order.

[Dat2U]

The Spurs dare players to take the **** shot. Especially a guy like Wall, who's going to make 40% of them, best case. They're giving Wall a sucker's bet. And yeah, it's a definitely a mind game. Wall oughta be watching tape of Rondo play. He had no problem passing up that shot. He also is a master at closing space between himself and defenders giving him that shot, and then going by them into the lane.

But haven't Wizard coaches continually encouraged Wall to take that sh*t shot? Hasn't Wall spent much of the last two offseasons shooting mid-range jumpers because he would be given that shot. Hasn't Cassell specifically told Wall again and again, "if your open, don't be afraid to shoot"? Cassell being the same guy that told Singleton to focus on his mid-range game instead of shooting 3s?

Coaching is an issue here. We get outcoached most games. Against well coached teams, we consistently get outclassed. Not to say Wittman and his staff aren't credible coaches and capable of putting together solid game plans. But we are significantly behind the curve in terms of the rest of the league. If the Wizards are so comfortable with paying Wall, it may make sense to invest in some better coaching to maximize that investment.

[hands11]

If Wall underperforms this year Ted has to let EG go. Ted can't take the hit himself even if he does sign the checks.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Wall doesn't have to play like a max player until next year. He gets this entire season and another off season to learn.

We should know if he is worth max by about Jan 2015. Any talk of it before hand is just jumping the gun and misguided.

Had they not max contracted him, he would be playing for the exact same amount right now, but going into next year as an RFA.

Hands, I understand how venture capital funding works. I'm just not seeing the results as a silent partner. I believe in paying for performance. This is the Real GM and my GM thoughts are to pay Wall on production and not on HOPE.

What if, Wall underpreforms? Does he still get MAX DOLLARS for HOPE if he was not signed last year?

Not sure I'm following you FB

Just pointed out we are 8 games into a a season with a really tough start of the year schedule and only 2 home games and that Wall is not playing on a max contract right now. He is playing on his rookie contract.

$7,459,924

I think he is worth every penny of that.

[hands11]

The Spurs dare players to take the **** shot. Especially a guy like Wall, who's going to make 40% of them, best case. They're giving Wall a sucker's bet. And yeah, it's a definitely a mind game. Wall oughta be watching tape of Rondo play. He had no problem passing up that shot. He also is a master at closing space between himself and defenders giving him that shot, and then going by them into the lane.

But haven't Wizard coaches continually encouraged Wall to take that sh*t shot? Hasn't Wall spent much of the last two offseasons shooting mid-range jumpers because he would be given that shot. Hasn't Cassell specifically told Wall again and again, "if your open, don't be afraid to shoot"? Cassell being the same guy that told Singleton to focus on his mid-range game instead of shooting 3s?

Coaching is an issue here. We get outcoached most games. Against well coached teams, we consistently get outclassed. Not to say Wittman and his staff aren't credible coaches and capable of putting together solid game plans. But we are significantly behind the curve in terms of the rest of the league. If the Wizards are so comfortable with paying Wall, it may make sense to invest in some better coaching to maximize that investment.

Agree.

Wouldn't hurt to try to upgrade any coach you can, even assistants.

[FreeBalling]

Wall doesn't have to play like a max player until next year. He gets this entire season and another off season to learn.

We should know if he is worth max by about Jan 2015. Any talk of it before hand is just jumping the gun and misguided.

Had they not max contracted him, he would be playing for the exact same amount right now, but going into next year as an RFA.

Hands, I understand how venture capital funding works. I'm just not seeing the results as a silent partner. I believe in paying for performance. This is the Real GM and my GM thoughts are to pay Wall on production and not on HOPE.

What if, Wall underpreforms? Does he still get MAX DOLLARS for HOPE if he was not signed last year?

Not sure I'm following you FB

Just point out we are 8 games into a a season with a really touch start of the year schedule and only 2 home games and that Wall is not playing on a max contract right now. He is playing on his rookie contract.

$7,459,924

I think he is work every penny of that.

Hands, the original post I responded to was referring to trading John Wall. I was only pointing out his Future Max Contract, combined with his current production on the court prohibits the Wizards from getting a productive max style player in return.

However, EG, did trade Kwame (magic beans) for Caron Butler. One of the bright moments in EG history.

I do not disagree with any of your points. Furthermore, I take into consideration the total worth and length of any contract when making business decisions. It's just how my brain operates.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Nivek]

The Spurs dare players to take the **** shot. Especially a guy like Wall, who's going to make 40% of them, best case. They're giving Wall a sucker's bet. And yeah, it's a definitely a mind game. Wall oughta be watching tape of Rondo play. He had no problem passing up that shot. He also is a master at closing space between himself and defenders giving him that shot, and then going by them into the lane.

But haven't Wizard coaches continually encouraged Wall to take that sh*t shot? Hasn't Wall spent much of the last two offseasons shooting mid-range jumpers because he would be given that shot. Hasn't Cassell specifically told Wall again and again, "if your open, don't be afraid to shoot"? Cassell being the same guy that told Singleton to focus on his mid-range game instead of shooting 3s?

Coaching is an issue here. We get outcoached most games. Against well coached teams, we consistently get outclassed. Not to say Wittman and his staff aren't credible coaches and capable of putting together solid game plans. But we are significantly behind the curve in terms of the rest of the league. If the Wizards are so comfortable with paying Wall, it may make sense to invest in some better coaching to maximize that investment.

This is a good point, although the message from the coaching staff appears to have changed this season. He's at a career high in 3pt attempt rate (both per minute and as a percentage of his FGA). If they're continuing to encourage him to take long 2s as anything but a last resort, they're fools. Long 2s can be gotten any time -- it's where defenses want you shooting.

[nate33]

The Spurs dare players to take the **** shot. Especially a guy like Wall, who's going to make 40% of them, best case. They're giving Wall a sucker's bet. And yeah, it's a definitely a mind game. Wall oughta be watching tape of Rondo play. He had no problem passing up that shot. He also is a master at closing space between himself and defenders giving him that shot, and then going by them into the lane.

But haven't Wizard coaches continually encouraged Wall to take that sh*t shot? Hasn't Wall spent much of the last two offseasons shooting mid-range jumpers because he would be given that shot. Hasn't Cassell specifically told Wall again and again, "if your open, don't be afraid to shoot"? Cassell being the same guy that told Singleton to focus on his mid-range game instead of shooting 3s?

Coaching is an issue here. We get outcoached most games. Against well coached teams, we consistently get outclassed. Not to say Wittman and his staff aren't credible coaches and capable of putting together solid game plans. But we are significantly behind the curve in terms of the rest of the league. If the Wizards are so comfortable with paying Wall, it may make sense to invest in some better coaching to maximize that investment.

This is a good point, although the message from the coaching staff appears to have changed this season. He's at a career high in 3pt attempt rate (both per minute and as a percentage of his FGA). If they're continuing to encourage him to take long 2s as anything but a last resort, they're fools. Long 2s can be gotten any time -- it's where defenses want you shooting.

Yeah, Sam Cassell may have been the best midrange shooter of all time. It made sense for him to shoot long 2's. Wall? Not so much.

[hands11]

Hands, I understand how venture capital funding works. I'm just not seeing the results as a silent partner. I believe in paying for performance. This is the Real GM and my GM thoughts are to pay Wall on production and not on HOPE.

What if, Wall underpreforms? Does he still get MAX DOLLARS for HOPE if he was not signed last year?

Not sure I'm following you FB

Just point out we are 8 games into a a season with a really touch start of the year schedule and only 2 home games and that Wall is not playing on a max contract right now. He is playing on his rookie contract.

$7,459,924

I think he is work every penny of that.

Hands, the original post I responded to was referring to trading John Wall. I was only pointing out his Future Max Contract, combined with his current production on the court prohibits the Wizards from getting a productive max style player in return.

However, EG, did trade Kwame (magic beans) for Caron Butler. One of the bright moments in EG history.

I do not disagree with any of your points. Furthermore, I take into consideration the total worth and length of any contract when making business decisions. It's just how my brain operates.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

AH. My bad then. If that was your view, I agree. Trading him would clearly be harder.

And yeah, that's EG. Dumped Kwame for CB. Awesome. Also dumped Gils worst in the league toxic contract. That's good EG. 2011 draft is bad EG.