1-3 Road trip

[Jackattaq]

What did you think of our "Good" defense against GS Last night? Still think we are "good" defensively? giving up over 35 pts in the first quarter of both games and you still think we are GOOD?

1. How many times did you say Good in that response?

2. I posted that yest, prior to the GS game & what I said was absolutely accurate.

3. We were worse against GS than we were against Port on the perimeter.

Anytime you give up 35+ in the first quarter and over 100 in a game I have a problem with someone calling us a "good" defensive team.

Against GSW we gave up 113 pts.
Against Port we gave up 109 pts.
Against OKC we gave up 119 pts.
Against IND we gave up 99 pts.
Against BOS we gave up 77 pts.
Against MEM we gave up 111 pts.
Against WASH we gave up 102 pts.

So in 7 games the opponents have broken 100 ppg against us a total of 5 times. We have limited a team to less than 100 only 2 times this year, one being a LOTTERY CELTICS TEAM and the other being IND who didn't play their starters the whole game due to the fact they had a 15 pt lead after one quarter. WE ARE NOT GOOD DEFENSIVELY. NOT AT ALL. Is there potential to be? Well, that remains to be seen, but to say we are good defensively is a fallacy. It's a farce. The Pistons are only as good as the personnel on the court and the players making the decisions with the ball. So far, it's hard to be impressed. If you see hope, good for you, I see another team full of potential but with a clueless head coach guiding a rudderless ship. This team has a LONG ways to go before they can realize the promise of their talent level.

[Jackattaq]

Another observation: When we did win 2 games this year, Jennings was out. We focused more on getting the ball inside to Monroe and Smith and punishing teams with our size and interior passing. Since Jennings came back to the lineup, we haven't done that. Our offense/Defense has suffered from BAD SHOT SELECTION. Even in the early games, when we missed interior shots, we had other bigs to help control the glass and offensive boards. With Jennings out there, he's looking for his shots more, and a majority of them have been step-back jumpers which tend to be long rebounds as misses and often start the opposition's fast break whether it's a fast break layup or a shot where the Pistons can't get their defense set up. I think we need to get back to FORCING the ball into the bigs, whether it's Monroe or Smith in the post with Dre cleaning up the glass. Even Dre caught a pass and made a nice move to a left-handed layup the other night. We need LESS JUMPERS and MORE POINTS IN THE PAINT. Why have all that size if you aren't gonna use it to your advantage?

[DetroitPistons]

KCP should play over Billups.
Billups should go to the bench.
Bynum shouldn't play anymore.
Datome should play over Singler.
Mitchell should play over JJ/CV.

Drummond shouldn't play 42 minutes when we play the next day.
There shouldn't have only 7 players who play more than 15 minutes when we play the next day.

That, plus the D and the '90% iso' offense, are a lot of things to reproach to Cheeks.


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Dude, what are you doing!? There isn't any common sense allowed within the Pistons organization. You should know better!

[Clarity]

In our first 7 games we have given up 100 in regulation to 4 opponents. The last 2 games being 2/4 which we are all clear were awful perimeter defensive performances. 3 of those 4 opponents are playoff locks with All Star players. This is a 3 pt league now, gone are the days of teams holding guys to 82 ppg for an entire season. We are currently allowing 4 ppg more than the Miami Heat aka one of the elite defensive teams while we have played a much tougher schedule.

I agree with a lot of your points but youre panicking wayyyyy too early.

I also agree with most of your 2nd post, we need to run the offense through the post, through Monroe & constantly be looking for Drummond & easy baskets. Jennings hasnt looked for Drummond once. I completely agree on less jumpers, more points in the paint.

[Jackattaq]

In our first 7 games we have given up 100 in regulation to 4 opponents. The last 2 games being 2/4 which we are all clear were awful perimeter defensive performances. 3 of those 4 opponents are playoff locks with All Star players. This is a 3 pt league now, gone are the days of teams holding guys to 82 ppg for an entire season. We are currently allowing 4 ppg more than the Miami Heat aka one of the elite defensive teams while we have played a much tougher schedule.

I agree with a lot of your points but youre panicking wayyyyy too early.

I also agree with most of your 2nd post, we need to run the offense through the post, through Monroe & constantly be looking for Drummond & easy baskets. Jennings hasnt looked for Drummond once. I completely agree on less jumpers, more points in the paint.

Believe me, I don't want to panic, but geez, this team isn't giving me much of a choice. I've been more pumped up for this season and watching this team that any in the last 5 years. I'm excited to see Dre develop and to see what KCP can become. I'm disappointed to see more of the same crap from Bynum and his rendition of "hero-ball". I'm not happy with the rotations. I don't like seeing Billups rimming out jumpers and then struggling to recover to get a hand up on jump shots as GS and PORT go 4-6 to start a game from 3 pt land. If Billups isn't hitting shots we know he's not out there for his Defense. He needs to shoot and hit to be worth his salt out there. I don't like seeing Brandon Jennings beat his man only to run into a second defender, then only to do a step-back jumper which rebounds long and starts an opponents' fast break. I don't like seeing DUMB basketball and IMHO, when you have a lineup that features a frontcourt that's 6'9, 6'10 and 6'11, there is no reason for a PG to be chucking 17 foot jumpers instead of letting that beef up front pound the opposition in the paint. I have to say: one positive I've seen is that all the Piston bigs are all WILLING AND ABLE PASSERS. I love the unselfishness. We need more of a concerted effort to pound the paint, PUNISH teams for only have 6'7 219lb SF's with Josh Smith and Punish them for trying to cover Greg with a slow plodding PF that can't defend his bevy of moves. Make them pay for doubling down as Greg finds a cutting stuckey or KCP for a slash and layup. This is simple basketball, too bad we've seen too much "hero-ball" from both Bynum and Jennings. We need more of a reliance on the points in the paint and running the offense through those bigs. We have the potential, now do we have the intelligence and smarts to make it happen?

[pistontr]

turmoil. which one is dumber, signing with charli v. and gordon or signing with smith and jennings.

if your SF is josh smith, you have no chance. everybody should know this.

[Clarity]

Believe me, I don't want to panic, but geez, this team isn't giving me much of a choice. I've been more pumped up for this season and watching this team that any in the last 5 years. I'm excited to see Dre develop and to see what KCP can become. I'm disappointed to see more of the same crap from Bynum and his rendition of "hero-ball". I'm not happy with the rotations. I don't like seeing Billups rimming out jumpers and then struggling to recover to get a hand up on jump shots as GS and PORT go 4-6 to start a game from 3 pt land. If Billups isn't hitting shots we know he's not out there for his Defense. He needs to shoot and hit to be worth his salt out there. I don't like seeing Brandon Jennings beat his man only to run into a second defender, then only to do a step-back jumper which rebounds long and starts an opponents' fast break. I don't like seeing DUMB basketball and IMHO, when you have a lineup that features a frontcourt that's 6'9, 6'10 and 6'11, there is no reason for a PG to be chucking 17 foot jumpers instead of letting that beef up front pound the opposition in the paint. I have to say: one positive I've seen is that all the Piston bigs are all WILLING AND ABLE PASSERS. I love the unselfishness. We need more of a concerted effort to pound the paint, PUNISH teams for only have 6'7 219lb SF's with Josh Smith and Punish them for trying to cover Greg with a slow plodding PF that can't defend his bevy of moves. Make them pay for doubling down as Greg finds a cutting stuckey or KCP for a slash and layup. This is simple basketball, too bad we've seen too much "hero-ball" from both Bynum and Jennings. We need more of a reliance on the points in the paint and running the offense through those bigs. We have the potential, now do we have the intelligence and smarts to make it happen?

Bynum bashing is always confusing to me, hes a great backup PG. Hes on this team solely for his chemistry with Andre, hes really the only guy aside from Monroe that even looks for Dre.

If you think Chauncey & his 6 mins per game is a reason why we have started out cold vs Por & GS you're delusional. Not to mention Chauncey hit a few shots & also took control of the offense early in Port when Jennings started getting wild which stopped the Port game from being GS early. Chauncey hasnt even played much, zero clue how hes getting blamed for anything? 0_o

Everything else I literally couldnt agree more on, I have said since day 1 that we must run our offense through our best player in Monroe. We are a more athletic Memphis, literally every play should be run inside out. We should force the ball inside ad nauseum. I want people to hate us because all we do is score in the paint. Like you said all 3 of our bigs are willing & very good passers, we can create so many easy buckets off their scoring & passing abilities that we arent currently. Josh posted Batum twice in Port, twice all night!!! I just shook my head. I want to physically abuse teams, taking jumpers or long 3's is called settling. Teams that have no inside presence like the Clippers play like that. You will never see Memphis play like that, ever.

[MrBigShot]

Bynum -can- be a good back up PG. He can also be a ball hog and make selfish decisions, which seems to happen more often.

[Jackattaq]

Bynum -can- be a good back up PG. He can also be a ball hog and make selfish decisions, which seems to happen more often.

Couldn't agree more. Can he be good? Can he score at times? Sure, but often he makes a few good plays then takes STUPID shots. For every GOOD PLAY, he makes at least that many bad plays.

[Notanoob]

The thing that gets me is that he's only a backup. He's not supposed to be that good. With most backups, you get either an inconsistent player who varies from really good to really bad, or you get a guy who's steadily mediocre, or just awful. Bynum can help swing games in our favor if he's playing well, and I don't think that his bad days are generally costing us the game- sure, sometimes they do, but not regularly. I think that he's a net positive over the course of a season, even if it's not exactly a huge positive.

[Clarity]

The thing that gets me is that he's only a backup. He's not supposed to be that good. With most backups, you get either an inconsistent player who varies from really good to really bad, or you get a guy who's steadily mediocre, or just awful. Bynum can help swing games in our favor if he's playing well, and I don't think that his bad days are generally costing us the game- sure, sometimes they do, but not regularly. I think that he's a net positive over the course of a season, even if it's not exactly a huge positive.

These are my thoughts plus not to sound like a broken record but hes literally the only guy aside from Monroe who even looks in Drummond direction.

[Snakebites]

At this point I hope we can land 1 game.

[imagump1313]

The thing that gets me is that he's only a backup. He's not supposed to be that good. With most backups, you get either an inconsistent player who varies from really good to really bad, or you get a guy who's steadily mediocre, or just awful. Bynum can help swing games in our favor if he's playing well, and I don't think that his bad days are generally costing us the game- sure, sometimes they do, but not regularly. I think that he's a net positive over the course of a season, even if it's not exactly a huge positive.

These are my thoughts plus not to sound like a broken record but hes literally the only guy aside from Monroe who even looks in Drummond direction.

Bynum is good in small doses (like Maxiel used to be). He just needs a short leash. The more he plays the worse his faults are shown. He should be an off the bench energy guy for small spurts, that's it.

[Jackattaq]

The thing that gets me is that he's only a backup. He's not supposed to be that good. With most backups, you get either an inconsistent player who varies from really good to really bad, or you get a guy who's steadily mediocre, or just awful. Bynum can help swing games in our favor if he's playing well, and I don't think that his bad days are generally costing us the game- sure, sometimes they do, but not regularly. I think that he's a net positive over the course of a season, even if it's not exactly a huge positive.

For all the praise you give Bynum, I think you fail to realize that for a guy "not supposed to be that good" Why is it that he is "allowed" (via giving him an abundance of PT) to play like he's that good. He's never benched for jacking up 10-14 shots (and missing) in a game. He's a PG yet he tries to play like his our "scoring guard" out there. He doesn't get the offense rolling. He's a ballhog. Josh Smith has more assists to Dre than does Bynum, I'd care to venture.

You say Bynum can swing games in our favor? Well guess what, BAD SHOTS can swing games out of reach too. He's more often times than not, picking up a stupid reach-in foul or over-dribbling into a turnover. He's NOT GOOD and He's NOT A PG. He's an undersized ball-hog that is detrimental to team success.

[Clarity]

Bynum is good in small doses (like Maxiel used to be). He just needs a short leash. The more he plays the worse his faults are shown. He should be an off the bench energy guy for small spurts, that's it.

Hes only averaging 22 mpg, shooting 48%, 42% from long range, 1 & a half TO's per game.

& again, hes the only guy looking for Drummond.

Think you are being a bit too hard on him.

For all the praise you give Bynum, I think you fail to realize that for a guy "not supposed to be that good" Why is it that he is "allowed" (via giving him an abundance of PT) to play like he's that good. He's never benched for jacking up 10-14 shots (and missing) in a game. He's a PG yet he tries to play like his our "scoring guard" out there. He doesn't get the offense rolling. He's a ballhog. Josh Smith has more assists to Dre than does Bynum, I'd care to venture.

You say Bynum can swing games in our favor? Well guess what, BAD SHOTS can swing games out of reach too. He's more often times than not, picking up a stupid reach-in foul or over-dribbling into a turnover. He's NOT GOOD and He's NOT A PG. He's an undersized ball-hog that is detrimental to team success.

In the only two games hes taken "10-14 shots" which was actually 13 & 11 he shot 54 & 64% in them. In those games he also had 5 & 6 assists.

[Jackattaq]

Bynum is good in small doses (like Maxiel used to be). He just needs a short leash. The more he plays the worse his faults are shown. He should be an off the bench energy guy for small spurts, that's it.

Hes only averaging 22 mpg, shooting 48%, 42% from long range, 1 & a half TO's per game.

& again, hes the only guy looking for Drummond.

Think you are being a bit too hard on him.

For all the praise you give Bynum, I think you fail to realize that for a guy "not supposed to be that good" Why is it that he is "allowed" (via giving him an abundance of PT) to play like he's that good. He's never benched for jacking up 10-14 shots (and missing) in a game. He's a PG yet he tries to play like his our "scoring guard" out there. He doesn't get the offense rolling. He's a ballhog. Josh Smith has more assists to Dre than does Bynum, I'd care to venture.

You say Bynum can swing games in our favor? Well guess what, BAD SHOTS can swing games out of reach too. He's more often times than not, picking up a stupid reach-in foul or over-dribbling into a turnover. He's NOT GOOD and He's NOT A PG. He's an undersized ball-hog that is detrimental to team success.

In the only two games hes taken "10-14 shots" which was actually 13 & 11 he shot 54 & 64% in them. In those games he also had 5 & 6 assists.

He's a momentum killer out there. When he's in the game, there is NO BALL MOVEMENT. There is no movement around screens and there is no one expecting a pass. Will DRIBBLES DRIBBLES DRIBBLES, Shoots. The assists he does get are usually only on fastbreaks when he's forced to give the ball up to a guy flying on the wing. He doesn't create shots for others. With the bigs, Smith and Monroe draw defensive attention and those guys set up their teammates for layups and dunks (albeit they need to get better with making better less sloppy passes) but they are unselfish. Bynum loves to come down on a fastbreak and pullup for a jumper with NO REBOUNDERS in positions (i.e. WASTED POSSESSION). He loves to get a pick and keep the ball and jack up a jumper. Rarely passes to the roller. Bynum is not a team success guy, he's a ME BALLER.

BTW: He's shooting only 70% from the FT line, that's pathetic for any guard, let alone a PG who handles the ball as much as he does.

[Clarity]

He's a momentum killer out there. When he's in the game, there is NO BALL MOVEMENT. There is no movement around screens and there is no one expecting a pass. Will DRIBBLES DRIBBLES DRIBBLES, Shoots. The assists he does get are usually only on fastbreaks when he's forced to give the ball up to a guy flying on the wing. He doesn't create shots for others. With the bigs, Smith and Monroe draw defensive attention and those guys set up their teammates for layups and dunks (albeit they need to get better with making better less sloppy passes) but they are unselfish. Bynum loves to come down on a fastbreak and pullup for a jumper with NO REBOUNDERS in positions (i.e. WASTED POSSESSION). He loves to get a pick and keep the ball and jack up a jumper. Rarely passes to the roller. Bynum is not a team success guy, he's a ME BALLER.

BTW: He's shooting only 70% from the FT line, that's pathetic for any guard, let alone a PG who handles the ball as much as he does.

Disagree & there arent many facts to backup your position, yes, Will takes some dumb shots but if youre this critical of Will, you must absolutely despise Jennings. Will is also not a very good defender.

His main goal in running the offense as a backup is the P&R with Drummond which he is very very good at.

Drummond's production would be nearly cut in half without Will simply because no one else, aside from Monroe looks for him at all.

Will is clearly not a starter but we could do a hell of a lot worse as a backup PG.

[Jackattaq]

He's a momentum killer out there. When he's in the game, there is NO BALL MOVEMENT. There is no movement around screens and there is no one expecting a pass. Will DRIBBLES DRIBBLES DRIBBLES, Shoots. The assists he does get are usually only on fastbreaks when he's forced to give the ball up to a guy flying on the wing. He doesn't create shots for others. With the bigs, Smith and Monroe draw defensive attention and those guys set up their teammates for layups and dunks (albeit they need to get better with making better less sloppy passes) but they are unselfish. Bynum loves to come down on a fastbreak and pullup for a jumper with NO REBOUNDERS in positions (i.e. WASTED POSSESSION). He loves to get a pick and keep the ball and jack up a jumper. Rarely passes to the roller. Bynum is not a team success guy, he's a ME BALLER.

BTW: He's shooting only 70% from the FT line, that's pathetic for any guard, let alone a PG who handles the ball as much as he does.

Disagree & there arent many facts to backup your position, yes, Will takes some dumb shots but if youre this critical of Will, you must absolutely despise Jennings. Will is also not a very good defender.

His main goal in running the offense as a backup is the P&R with Drummond which he is very very good at.

Drummond's production would be nearly cut in half without Will simply because no one else, aside from Monroe looks for him at all.

Will is clearly not a starter but we could do a hell of a lot worse as a backup PG.

I have NOT been happy with Jennings play. He's taking too many bad shots. His "step-back" gun is a wasted possession. The only positive I've seen is that he gets in the paint. He does get past his man and is a willing passer, but ALL too often the possessions end in that terrible step-back jumper that he can't seem to be able to hit at any sort of decent clip. He is hit and miss on defense. His size limitations are evident, but he does get steals and make some defensive plays. He seems to have good quick hands. That game against GS, he and Billups started 1-12 shooting. That's now how you want your backcourt to start a game. They need to be the ones to get the ball inside to our strength (our post guys) and not continue to shoot when they can't throw it in the ocean.

[Clarity]

I have NOT been happy with Jennings play. He's taking too many bad shots. His "step-back" gun is a wasted possession. The only positive I've seen is that he gets in the paint. He does get past his man and is a willing passer, but ALL too often the possessions end in that terrible step-back jumper that he can't seem to be able to hit at any sort of decent clip. He is hit and miss on defense. His size limitations are evident, but he does get steals and make some defensive plays. He seems to have good quick hands. That game against GS, he and Billups started 1-12 shooting. That's now how you want your backcourt to start a game. They need to be the ones to get the ball inside to our strength (our post guys) and not continue to shoot when they can't throw it in the ocean.

Agreed on the last sentence more than you know.

[Jackattaq]

I have NOT been happy with Jennings play. He's taking too many bad shots. His "step-back" gun is a wasted possession. The only positive I've seen is that he gets in the paint. He does get past his man and is a willing passer, but ALL too often the possessions end in that terrible step-back jumper that he can't seem to be able to hit at any sort of decent clip. He is hit and miss on defense. His size limitations are evident, but he does get steals and make some defensive plays. He seems to have good quick hands. That game against GS, he and Billups started 1-12 shooting. That's now how you want your backcourt to start a game. They need to be the ones to get the ball inside to our strength (our post guys) and not continue to shoot when they can't throw it in the ocean.

Agreed on the last sentence more than you know.

Finally we agree on something.....