Game Thread #9 Wiz vs Cavs Nov 16th 7PM

[Knighthonor]

Wall need to be reminded of his drive game. He has pressure on him to prove he can shoot now.

[dangermouse]

Stop bringing up Cleveland as if they're some model organization.

Compared to us, they are.

[diaboliQ_Mo]

Stop bringing up Cleveland as if they're some model organization.

Compared to us, they are.

Had we won last night, we wouldn't have been having this conversation, though?

[diaboliQ_Mo]

Thts y cleveland beats us and have a team with assests to make moves thru draft/trade or freeagent signings along with a superstar who can win games

Cleveland beat us because, we're us. They haven't beaten too many other teams though, and didn't last year either. I'm still not seeing how Irving's "incredible scoring" is having as much of an impact as you claim.

And what notable free agent has Cleveland ever attracted? Please inform me because I can't think of any.

Cleveland is in just as **** a situation as the Wizards right now. Wishing for Wall to be more like Irving is not going to solve this team's problems.

If I was greg monroe would I choose washington or Cleveland?
If I was deng would I choose washington or clevelamd?

If I wanted to trade aldridge would I do it with cleveland for waiters thompson some picks
Or washington for...

Trust me guys want to play with irving before wall...be honest with yourself

If I was Greg Monroe or Deng, I don't think I want to sign wit either Cleveland or Washington.

[fishercob]

Went to the game last night, my first of the year. I'm thoroughly disgusted.

--Wall was phenomenal in the 1Q and horrendous after that. He wasted several possessions with long twos, particularly early in the shot clock -- one of the them was right after Irving hit a jumper and Wall was clearly trying to "answer" him. Borderline unforgivable sin. Go to the basket -- you have two bigs to dish to, two shooters to kick to, or go all the way to the rim. A couple of moments of crap body language too.

--Nene's numbers were good, but I want to lick my hand and slap him across his face. He has the temerity to call out the "young guys" (as if Nick, JaFail, and Dray were still here) and then repeatedly choke at the line? Again, I know his numbers were good, but something about him just pisses me off. With his size and quickness he should be an all-star.

--We know what the coach thinks of Trevor Booker now -- getting a DNP in that game.

-- Remember when people were upset about signing Webster and drafting porter? I wasn't because we're always so injured. Glen Rice (not ready for prime time) played 16 minutes and Beal still played 47?!?

--I really appreciated Jan's energy last night. He has to play that way every minute he's on the floor because he's so limited offensively. But the dude brought it.

--Gortat looked awful doing anything other than diving on the PnR.

--We lost to a team that played Matthew Dellavadova 31 minutes.

I am so frustrated with and sick of this franchise.

[nate33]

I've already gotten past anger and have gone straight to apathy. This franchise is pathetic. We're 2-7 with a capped out salary structure, no first round pick next year, an over the hill front court, a #3 overall pick who hasn't played a game, an extremely disappointing "franchise player"who still isn't better than an average starter after 3 seasons, and the worst bench in the league. Outside of Beal, there's nothing about this team that gives me any reason for optimism in the foreseeable future.

[B-easy]

I've already gotten past anger and have gone straight to apathy. This franchise is pathetic. We're 2-7 with a capped out salary structure, no first round pick next year, an over the hill front court, a #3 overall pick who hasn't played a game, an extremely disappointing "franchise player"who still isn't better than an average starter after 3 seasons, and the worst bench in the league. Outside of Beal, there's nothing about this team that gives me any reason for optimism in the foreseeable future.

You were pretty optimistic last season, hyping up wall and it's only been 9 games so far this season.

2-7 is still only 1.5 games behind the 8th seed so its not all that bad.

[dandridge 10]

Went to the game last night, my first of the year. I'm thoroughly disgusted.

--Wall was phenomenal in the 1Q and horrendous after that. He wasted several possessions with long twos, particularly early in the shot clock -- one of the them was right after Irving hit a jumper and Wall was clearly trying to "answer" him. Borderline unforgivable sin. Go to the basket -- you have two bigs to dish to, two shooters to kick to, or go all the way to the rim. A couple of moments of crap body language too.

--Nene's numbers were good, but I want to lick my hand and slap him across his face. He has the temerity to call out the "young guys" (as if Nick, JaFail, and Dray were still here) and then repeatedly choke at the line? Again, I know his numbers were good, but something about him just pisses me off. With his size and quickness he should be an all-star.

--We know what the coach thinks of Trevor Booker now -- getting a DNP in that game.

-- Remember when people were upset about signing Webster and drafting porter? I wasn't because we're always so injured. Glen Rice (not ready for prime time) played 16 minutes and Beal still played 47?!?

--I really appreciated Jan's energy last night. He has to play that way every minute he's on the floor because he's so limited offensively. But the dude brought it.

--Gortat looked awful doing anything other than diving on the PnR.

--We lost to a team that played Matthew Dellavadova 31 minutes.

I am so frustrated with and sick of this franchise.

I feel the same way Fish. I didn't see you last night (although I was pretty preoccupied with my son). Are you still sitting in the same location?

Regarding Wall, the biggest problem I have with him lately is his body language. Sometimes, it just looks like he is sleep walking out there with no emotion at all. Other times, he looks completely deflated. When is jump shot is not falling, instead of stepping into his next shot with confidence, he lazily "throws it up" towards the hope hoping it goes in. I think the biggest problem with Wall right now is between his ears.

Regarding Nene, I also feel the same way. There is just something about him that rubs me the wrong way too. I have said it before, but he easily is my least favorite player on the Wizards.

[noworriesinmd]

--Nene's numbers were good, but I want to lick my hand and slap him across his face. He has the temerity to call out the "young guys" (as if Nick, JaFail, and Dray were still here) and then repeatedly choke at the line? Again, I know his numbers were good, but something about him just pisses me off. With his size and quickness he should be an all-star.

Fish, I really agree with this. Nene is sooo good. I was thinking how incredible he is. How he sometimes is easily the best person on the court...then he just misses free throws. The same thing happened in the OKC game. He was the reason why the game went to overtime...but then he disappeared. He is the biggest tease ever.

[nate33]

I've already gotten past anger and have gone straight to apathy. This franchise is pathetic. We're 2-7 with a capped out salary structure, no first round pick next year, an over the hill front court, a #3 overall pick who hasn't played a game, an extremely disappointing "franchise player"who still isn't better than an average starter after 3 seasons, and the worst bench in the league. Outside of Beal, there's nothing about this team that gives me any reason for optimism in the foreseeable future.

You were pretty optimistic last season, hyping up wall and it's only been 9 games so far this season.

2-7 is still only 1.5 games behind the 8th seed so its not all that bad.

I was optimistic, at least cautiously optimistic after Wall's sensational March last year. But my optimism was centered around Wall (and less so, Beal). And since then, we've seen no improvement from Wall. He's the same Wall from the last year, minus the sensational March, and minus the willingness to sacrifice his body and get to the line.

Also, even last year, I didn't think the team had much promise as a legit contender. The front court was too old, the depth was awful. I was very much against EG going "all in" with trading a future pick for Gortat. EG should have waited until the youngsters experienced a sustained level of at least mediocrity on their own before making the win-now trades to acquire vets. EG shot his wad too soon, just like he did when trading for Jamison when he first arrived. The loss of a future pick is really demoralizing for me.

[tontoz]

We shouldn't obsess so much about the 2-7 start. After all those games are in the past and we shouldn't dwell on the past.

[dandridge 10]

Well, if its any consolation, we haven't exactly lost the first round pick yet, at least for this year. If the Wiz keep playing the way they are playing, we'll have the first round pick.

[WizarDynasty]

poor coaching and preparation. the shots missed in 4th. all playoff teams know who is going to take the shot based on the play. our guys miss shots so badly in the 4th quarter that it automatically tells you that wizards have a low standard. no plays should be called for players if they aren't automatic against pressure defense in practice.,Leonsis should screaming down grundfelds neck right now. advanced motion cameras should dictate the shots taken in 4th quarter. grunfeld needs to me replaced with a stats motion camera guru before the rest of league sucks up the talent pool. gortat is soft as fluffy tissue. those shots he,missed at point blank range popovich would never give him playing time., open free throw jumpers missed by wall and bill in the 4th quarter popovich would hold them accountable. Leonsis is ultimately accountant for this mess because he failed to being in,a motion camera stats guy for his GM

[montestewart]

poor coaching and preparation. the shots missed in 4th. all playoff teams know who is going to take the shot based on the play. our guys miss shots so badly in the 4th quarter that it automatically tells you that wizards have a low standard. no plays should be called for players if they aren't automatic against pressure defense in practice.,Leonsis should screaming down grundfelds neck right now. advanced motion cameras should dictate the shots taken in 4th quarter. grunfeld needs to me replaced with a stats motion camera guru before the rest of league sucks up the talent pool. gortat is soft as fluffy tissue. those shots he,missed at point blank range popovich would never give him playing time., open free throw jumpers missed by wall and bill in the 4th quarter popovich would hold them accountable. Leonsis is ultimately accountant for this mess because he failed to being in,a motion camera stats guy for his GM

Grunfeld's neck needs to be replaced with fluffy tissue, which is maybe what you meant. Agree with you, Leonsis is ultimately an accountant. If he's figured out a way to make a profit off this crap--maybe it's his Springtime for Hitler or something--and somehow keeps selling tickets (or whatever the sources of income are), then there's apparently not much of a fire to win.

Doddering old Pollin and his misguided dictate that the team WIN NOW! are looking better all the time.

[LyricalRico]

--Wall was phenomenal in the 1Q and horrendous after that. He wasted several possessions with long twos, particularly early in the shot clock -- one of the them was right after Irving hit a jumper and Wall was clearly trying to "answer" him. Borderline unforgivable sin. Go to the basket -- you have two bigs to dish to, two shooters to kick to, or go all the way to the rim. A couple of moments of crap body language too.

--Nene's numbers were good, but I want to lick my hand and slap him across his face. He has the temerity to call out the "young guys" (as if Nick, JaFail, and Dray were still here) and then repeatedly choke at the line? Again, I know his numbers were good, but something about him just pisses me off. With his size and quickness he should be an all-star.

Agree on Wall, it seems like at some point in every game he singlehandedly destroys our momentum. And it's usually at a critical time when we're making a run or late in the 4th.

But I disagree on Nene. There's a lid on the rim for this whole team at the FT line. Nene isn't the reason we're losing games IMO.

--I really appreciated Jan's energy last night. He has to play that way every minute he's on the floor because he's so limited offensively. But the dude brought it.

--Gortat looked awful doing anything other than diving on the PnR.

Agree on Vesely. The team needs a guy with energy and size in the frontcourt. I'd play him whatever minutes they were going to play Seraphin or Booker, with some allowance for Harrington on nights where he's comes out on fire.

But I disagree on Gortat. Yes he does go up soft sometimes, but his jumper is fairly reliable and he's a good defensive rebounder. He's even blocked a couple of shots. Again, I don't think he's the reason the team is losing.

Other thoughts:

- Liked Temple playing the Ariza role from the backcourt. I don't think Maynor has been as awful as some have said, but considering that the team needs to generate offense, having a guy like Temple in the game to create turnovers is important IMO.

- Combine the above with Webster clearly playing better as a starter, I think the case for trading Ariza for bench help is pretty strong IMO. Depending on what they plan to do next summer they need to be careful about the type of contracts they add, but that's really their only roster move left.

- As for Wittman, I've never been passionately for or against him. I liked what he did in dealing with some of the guys no longer on the team and restoring order. But he clearly hasn't been able to develop John Wall or get anything out of the other young guys not named Wall/Beal. Problem is, at this point in the season you would turn to an assistant but there really isn't anyone that jumps out at me. Maybe that guy they recently hired from the Spurs?

[DCZards]

Regarding Wall, the biggest problem I have with him lately is his body language. Sometimes, it just looks like he is sleep walking out there with no emotion at all. Other times, he looks completely deflated. When is jump shot is not falling, instead of stepping into his next shot with confidence, he lazily "throws it up" towards the hope hoping it goes in. I think the biggest problem with Wall right now is between his ears.

Yup, Wall's play clearly rises and falls on his confidence and mental state. You see it in his performance, his body language and his interaction with teammates and the refs. I think the pressure to live up to the max contract has only made it worse. John could probably benefit from the involvement of a mental health professional. That might some crazy on some levels but he wouldn't be the first person to utilize those kind of services as a steppingstone to improving their attitude and workplace performance.

[hands11]

This team really is good in the first half, but they can't sustain it. It comes down to the bench. Temple is horrible.
For all you fans wanting GRJ to play...you got your wish and he is not ready.

I am secretly rooting for Vesely to get it. I really liked his play today. He is that energy guy that every team needs. He does so many little things and he leaves it all on the table. His biggest problem on D is trying to help too much. He is our of position a lot because he is helping teammates out.

I've noticed all the home games have more Wiz fans then visitor fans....I wonder how long that lasts.

Temple doesn't suck. He is actually a very solid defender. He is is 6-6 guard that can man the 1 and 2. So what he had 3 turnovers last night. That is unusual for him. He has played in just two games this year. He is still warming up. If anything, he need to shoot the ball more. I have zero problem with Temple at this point and I would continue to have his a core of the rotation.

[hands11]

Wall 3 freethrows
Beal 2 freethrows


Irving 9 the guy is attacking the basket. What and the hell is Wall/Beal doing.

Shooting perimeter shots.

Wall wanted a S4 to open the middle more. They got AH who doesn't start and can't because he has bad knees and can't defend. Right now we are playing a power line up with Nene and Gortat and neither is very athletic and the combination clogs the middle for Wall who is now playing to passive and on the perimeter.

There are solutions to this. They need to get a Spencer Hawes type and or a Tristan type for Nene or Gortat.

With what we have, I would start Ves. At least that puts a long athletic big down there. Ves is playing with great energy, playing good pnr defense, passing and keeping balls alive. And he runs the court well.

[hands11]

Went to the game last night, my first of the year. I'm thoroughly disgusted.

--Wall was phenomenal in the 1Q and horrendous after that. He wasted several possessions with long twos, particularly early in the shot clock -- one of the them was right after Irving hit a jumper and Wall was clearly trying to "answer" him. Borderline unforgivable sin. Go to the basket -- you have two bigs to dish to, two shooters to kick to, or go all the way to the rim. A couple of moments of crap body language too.

--Nene's numbers were good, but I want to lick my hand and slap him across his face. He has the temerity to call out the "young guys" (as if Nick, JaFail, and Dray were still here) and then repeatedly choke at the line? Again, I know his numbers were good, but something about him just pisses me off. With his size and quickness he should be an all-star.

--We know what the coach thinks of Trevor Booker now -- getting a DNP in that game.

-- Remember when people were upset about signing Webster and drafting porter? I wasn't because we're always so injured. Glen Rice (not ready for prime time) played 16 minutes and Beal still played 47?!?

--I really appreciated Jan's energy last night. He has to play that way every minute he's on the floor because he's so limited offensively. But the dude brought it.

--Gortat looked awful doing anything other than diving on the PnR.

--We lost to a team that played Matthew Dellavadova 31 minutes.

I am so frustrated with and sick of this franchise.

I feel the same way Fish. I didn't see you last night (although I was pretty preoccupied with my son). Are you still sitting in the same location?

Regarding Wall, the biggest problem I have with him lately is his body language. Sometimes, it just looks like he is sleep walking out there with no emotion at all. Other times, he looks completely deflated. When is jump shot is not falling, instead of stepping into his next shot with confidence, he lazily "throws it up" towards the hope hoping it goes in. I think the biggest problem with Wall right now is between his ears.

Regarding Nene, I also feel the same way. There is just something about him that rubs me the wrong way too. I have said it before, but he easily is my least favorite player on the Wizards.

Between the ears is right. So what do you do about that? Its a coaches job to get him going. I say part of it is he feels somewhat castrated. He has 4 scoring options out there but he is not clearly the go to guy. He wants to be a good passing PG but he needs to be able to dominate to get his swag going also.

I say the solution is give him less scoring options with the starting line up and give him a defender energy guy instead. Clear the post more and let him play more hero ball to get to the line and get his motor running. Pick one of Nene or Gortat to start. I might even separate him and Beal and give him a defensive 2 sometimes ala who the Wiz played DS with Gil... Right now they have to many player in the starting line up that need to score to be effective and happy. They have told us that is happening. So separate them instead of fighting it. The easiest solution is to separate Nene and Gortat. Start Ves. Ves is actually the perfect solution since he doesn't really care if he shoots or not but you can still play some PnR and alley opp with him. And he can crash the offensive boards. Just need to get him going from the FT and the occasional mid range. I would even have him launch a 3 here and there. Plus it would raise his value and confidence. Free the Ves.

Wall
Beal ( rotate Temple between PG and SG with Wall and Beal and use Maynor here and there if needed )
Trevor A/Webster ( or the other way around )
Ves/Booker
Gortat/Nene

You always have Wall and Beal out there to score from the guard.
Always have a SF that can hit a 3
Always have athletic energy, rebounding and low shot attempts, slash and dunk from the 4
Always have a center that can score or hit a mid range to open the post for Wall.

Thats how I would play this roster. This the same thing I said to do back when they had Okafor. Its keep Nene rested and healthy and it balances the line ups. The roster played like that would beat lots of teams.

Randy is suck because he doesn't have the balls to make this work and he can't maximize Walls talent.

[Hypnotizer]

Wall
Beal ( rotate Temple between PG and SG with Wall and Beal and use Maynor here and there if needed )
Trevor A/Webster ( or the other way around )
Ves/Booker
Gortat/Nene

I still like:
Wall
Beal
Ariza
Nene
Gortat
line-up. Nene would be a tickin' bomb as 2nd unit. And Jan was ok yesterday, but they were only Cavs. You don't put a dude from DNPs to 1st squad at once. Besides Vesely is good rebounder, so it would be better for Wizards to not share the same time with Marcin in my opinion.