'14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE.

Post #741 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:49 am

Gordon's 6'6" in socks. He's got a nice wingspan but I don't blame one of the youngest players (17th youngest, I think) in all of college basketball for trying to become SF and develop a legit perimeter game.

Ayt · Post #742 » by **Ayt** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:50 am

If the best player from this draft class is merely a Paul George level player, I'd say this class flopped horribly. We already know how good George can be even as a 23 year old NBA player. Where do you think he could realistically end up ranking in the top 50 NBA players of all time?

Like I said, I love Paul George, but he's basically irrelevant if you are talking about elite talent on an historical level. If none of the players in the 2014 draft have any historical importance, it will be a major disappointment.

Post #743 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:53 am

Ayt wrote:If the best player from this draft class is merely a Paul George level player, I'd say this class flopped horribly. We already know how good George can be even as a 23 year old NBA player. Where do you think he could realistically end up ranking in the top 50 NBA players of all time?

If the best player in this class ended up an MVP caliber player it says nothing about the overall strength of the class. Is the LeBron class a flop because all you got was one MVP winning player and a bunch of all-star game appearances?

emunney · Post #744 » by **emunney** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:53 am

Ayt wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Ayt wrote:I think a gigantic percentage of people would see him as a (rather major) disappointment if he ends up being a George level player. I can't imagine Baddy Chuck, for example, thinks he'll end up being at that level.

I love George, but he'll never be an MVP caliber player. He's a very clear step below LeBron and Durant at the SF position. I think you are in a very small minority if you have viewed Wiggins as a George type player the last year or so.

Alright, two things:

1 - George right now is playing at an MVP level at age 23. If he doesn't win one in the next few years because there is a dude named LeBron walking the planet, that isn't a slight on George. That's just being unlucky to play in an era with one of the best ever in his prime.

He is?

If George keeps up this level of play and the Pacers win 60+ games, wouldn't you give him fair odds at winning it? LeBron would still be the favorite, of course, but Paul George could sneak one by Derrick Rose / Steve Nash (2) style.

Ayt · Post #745 » by **Ayt** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:56 am

I was accused of overrating Paul George on the GB in several threads last year (an example from March). :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1239828

El Pooch Grande · Post #746 » by **El Pooch Grande** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:57 am

Ayt wrote:If the best player from this draft class is merely a Paul George level player, I'd say this class flopped horribly. We already know how good George can be even as a 23 year old NBA player. Where do you think he could realistically end up ranking in the top 50 NBA players of all time?

Like I said, I love Paul George, but he's basically irrelevant if you are talking about elite talent on an historical level. If none of the players in the 2014 draft have any historical importance, it will be a major disappointment.

Not to bud in on this conversation but...I think Paul George has the potential to be a Hall of Fame player, much like Paul Pierce became with Boston. If the Pacers win a title or two with him there, and he goes to say 10 All-Star games in Indiana, then George will be in the HOF like Pierce in Boston, Dirk in Dallas, etc. I think the Hall of Fame should be the measuring stick.

This 2014 draft class has Hall of Fame talent at the top, which is the path that Paul George is currently on.

If you're trying to make these players into Lebron or the G.O.A.T. (MJ), then you will be disappointed. Those guys were/are once in a lifetime talents.

breakchains · Post #747 » by **breakchains** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:58 am

It's simple. George is an elite player. No team will be disappointed drafting that caliber of player. This is likely a product of someone viewing a player through the lens of where he was drafted and not for the player he actually is. If George was picked #1 overall and was the exact same player he is today, he would be viewed differently. Still, he will eventually overcome that - it'll just take a couple extra years.

Post #748 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:59 am

I'm gonna start editing my posts to include "I love [insert player], but..." when I find out my opinion I thought would be universally backed isn't shared by anyone. Looks cool.

Wooderson · Post #749 » by **Wooderson** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:00 am

emunney wrote:I'm sure there would be a lot of people who'd be disappointed in Wiggins if he was 'only' Paul George. I'm even more sure that LeBron would have been a disappointment had he never gotten better than a top 10 player in the league. The LeBron hype was unlike anything before or since, and when you watched him play, it felt totally justified.

From age 16 he was pretty much thought of as a sure thing to be the next all time great basketball player. I think a lot of people will consider him a disappointment if he doesn't have 7 rings when he retires.

And all of that seems crazy to me. If a player doesn't reach the top end of what is projected, that shouldn't be considered a disappointment imo. LeBron is a bad example and he's probably the one person I should have excluded from the conversation. In fact, I think LeBron sort of ruined expectations for all future prospects. His translation and development in the NBA is almost picturesque.

I guess I just think it's unrealistic to put so much certainty into 18 year-olds. LeBron proved to a be a very hard worker and student of the game, improving in one area or another almost every year. Predicting that sort of work ethic is so difficult.

Post #750 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:01 am

Sorry to pick you here, Ayt. Just surprised.

Also, I had Wiggins third or fourth on my board coming into the season, and I never thought George would be a top ten player. Thought he was overrated, even after last season. I don't know **** and I waffle daily.

El Pooch Grande · Post #751 » by **El Pooch Grande** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:04 am

AT THE HALF...

Aaron Gordon (4-7 shooting, 8 points, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1 block)

Arizona leads Rhode Island 43-19.

Wooderson · Post #752 » by **Wooderson** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:05 am

Ayt wrote:If the best player from this draft class is merely a Paul George level player, I'd say this class flopped horribly. We already know how good George can be even as a 23 year old NBA player. Where do you think he could realistically end up ranking in the top 50 NBA players of all time?

Like I said, I love Paul George, but he's basically irrelevant if you are talking about elite talent on an historical level. If none of the players in the 2014 draft have any historical importance, it will be a major disappointment.

Saying the best player in the draft ends up at George's level is completely different than projecting one individual player. There are 4 or 5 guys who individually could possibly reach that level or better. That's what makes this a great draft, you have tons of different guys who have shown that potential.

TroyD92 · Post #753 » by **TroyD92** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:10 am

El Pooch Grande wrote:AT THE HALF...

Aaron Gordon (4-7 shooting, 8 points, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1 block)

Arizona leads Rhode Island 43-19.

I don't get what people see in Gordon. Best case he's a shorter Blake Griffin.

Maybe it's because I hate Blake Griffin?

Ayt · Post #754 » by **Ayt** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:13 am

Frankly, after thinking about it a bit, it is quite sad that a guy like Paul George is considered an elite player. I linked to one thread where I defended him last year (there were several others) but he's really a nobody if you are looking at all time caliber talent.

El Pooch Grande · Post #755 » by **El Pooch Grande** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:20 am

TroyD92 wrote:
El Pooch Grande wrote:AT THE HALF...

Aaron Gordon (4-7 shooting, 8 points, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1 block)

Arizona leads Rhode Island 43-19.

I don't get what people see in Gordon. Best case he's a shorter Blake Griffin.

Maybe it's because I hate Blake Griffin?

But if you could draft a shorter Blake Griffin with a pick between 7-10, then all of a sudden he becomes an amazing value. Hopefully though he will be a player we don't have to worry about since we SHOULD be drafting in the Top 7 (praying for Top 3, would be happy with Top 5)

Wooderson · Post #756 » by **Wooderson** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:22 am

Ayt wrote:Frankly, after thinking about it a bit, it is quite sad that a guy like Paul George is considered an elite player. I linked to one thread where I defended him last year (there were several others) but he's really a nobody if you are looking at all time caliber talent.

If he keeps up his current level of play, I'm not so sure. He could go down as an all-time great wing defender imo. If he continues to put up 24/7/3 on elite efficiency, that's pretty damn good. The guy is only 23 and hasn't had that much time as a number 1 option.

El Pooch Grande · Post #757 » by **El Pooch Grande** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:27 am

Ayt wrote:Frankly, after thinking about it a bit, it is quite sad that a guy like Paul George is considered an elite player. I linked to one thread where I defended him last year (there were several others) but he's really a nobody if you are looking at all time caliber talent.

bizarro · Post #758 » by **bizarro** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:31 am

El Pooch Grande wrote:AT THE HALF...

Aaron Gordon (4-7 shooting, 8 points, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1 block)

Arizona leads Rhode Island 43-19.

Don't just focus on Gordon with AU. Seriously. You have to watch their entire group of Tarczewski, Ashley, and Hollis-Jefferson as well. They have dynamite depth. And they're all extremely athletic and long. At the moment, I see Gordon finding his niche as a basketball player. He's great in transition and is extremely athletic. But, he can not guard the 3 in space. At all. He doesn't have a face-up game yet. He's working on his jumper - and, it's definitely a work in progress. He's a player I'm going to watch all year to see if he develops beyond his athletic prowess. If you saw his reverse alley-oop dunk tonite you'll understand.

Ayt · Post #759 » by **Ayt** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:33 am

El Pooch Grande wrote:
Ayt wrote:Frankly, after thinking about it a bit, it is quite sad that a guy like Paul George is considered an elite player. I linked to one thread where I defended him last year (there were several others) but he's really a nobody if you are looking at all time caliber talent.

I'm obviously a Paul George hater. Just search my post history about him.

bizarro · Post #760 » by **bizarro** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:34 am

Ayt wrote:Frankly, after thinking about it a bit, it is quite sad that a guy like Paul George is considered an elite player. I linked to one thread where I defended him last year (there were several others) but he's really a nobody if you are looking at all time caliber talent.

You have to be kidding, Ayt. George is a phenomenal young talent. He's a 5-tool all star. He is long. Athletic. He can shoot. He can post up. He can defend. He can rebound. He had a good handle. He went toe-to-toe w/ the Heat and definitively rose to the challenge. He's 23!! You're out of your mind.

And, I should add, he may be my favorite NBA player. So, there's definitely a bias.

Who would you pick?