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GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN

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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#341 » by Dat2U » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
AFM wrote:I'll never doubt CCJ's abilities again. Wish we had kept Wolters, he's way better than Maynor, who honestly makes me cringe. GRJR may end up a good player, but he's not a player we need. We need a back up PG desperately.

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that Wolters isn't really the sensation everyone is making him out to be. He was thrust into a major minute role at the start of the season due to injuries, and played pretty well for his first 4 games, posting an ORtg of 114 and leading his team to a 2-2 record. But looking deeper, one can see that his competition was some of the worst teams in the league (NYK, BOS, TOR, CLE) and that part of his advantage may have been that his opponents haven't scouted him.

In the 6 games since then, the Bucks have gone 0-6, losing by an average of 14 points; and Wolters is averaging 7 points and 4 assists in 30 minutes a game with a TS% of .416 and an ORtg 92.

On the season as a whole, he is posting a PER of 12.5 with a TS% of .446 and an ORtg of 102.


Exactly. Only reason Wolters is being mentioned because he got an opportunity. Not because he was deserving of that opportunity. Or that he performed well when given the opportunity. If Brandon Knight & Luke Ridnour hadn't of gotten hurt, Wolters would have never played.
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#342 » by hands11 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:30 pm

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:
They also need a player like Blair off the bench. And ball handing whenever the can add it. Someone that can drive. I thought that was Glen but he doesn't seem very sharp. Looks like another Nick Young type.


Hands, I know you don't mean any harm when you do it, and maybe I'm the only one who is bothered by it, but I hate it when you question the intelligence of a player/person based on scant evidence.


Are you suggesting you have no feeling about this kind of stuff when comparing players like Nick, Glen, McGee and Kevin vs players like Beal and Webster ?

I think intelligence is a big part of the game. Basketball court intelligence, emotional intelligence, leadership intelligence, etc.

And yes, you are right. I don't mean any harm. Just making an observation about something I think is important. Like a SA team. I want all my players to be sharp. At a min sharp enough to know their role. Which is way a player like Ves doesn't bother me. At least he know what not to do.
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#343 » by payitforward » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:45 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AFM wrote:I'll never doubt CCJ's abilities again. Wish we had kept Wolters, he's way better than Maynor, who honestly makes me cringe. GRJR may end up a good player, but he's not a player we need. We need a back up PG desperately.

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that Wolters isn't really the sensation everyone is making him out to be. He was thrust into a major minute role at the start of the season due to injuries, and played pretty well for his first 4 games, posting an ORtg of 114 and leading his team to a 2-2 record. But looking deeper, one can see that his competition was some of the worst teams in the league (NYK, BOS, TOR, CLE) and that part of his advantage may have been that his opponents haven't scouted him.

In the 6 games since then, the Bucks have gone 0-6, losing by an average of 14 points; and Wolters is averaging 7 points and 4 assists in 30 minutes a game with a TS% of .416 and an ORtg 92.

On the season as a whole, he is posting a PER of 12.5 with a TS% of .446 and an ORtg of 102.

Exactly. Only reason Wolters is being mentioned because he got an opportunity. Not because he was deserving of that opportunity. Or that he performed well when given the opportunity. If Brandon Knight & Luke Ridnour hadn't of gotten hurt, Wolters would have never played.

Honestly, I just don't get this....

In their last game, Ridnour started, and they lost -- so... we're saying that this is negative data about Wolters? He played 18 minutes, went 3-5 and had 4 assists. He also turned it over 3 times.

He's a rookie round 2 choice. He has a lot to learn, but it's totally obvious that he is comfortable at this level and barring injury it looks like he'll have a productive NBA career. I.e. he was a terrific choice at #38 in the draft.

Is it in doubt that he was a terrific choice at #38?
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#344 » by DCZards » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:19 pm

hands11 wrote:
Are you suggesting you have no feeling about this kind of stuff when comparing players like Nick, Glen, McGee and Kevin vs players like Beal and Webster ?

I want all my players to be sharp. At a min sharp enough to know their role. Which is way a player like Ves doesn't bother me. At least he know what not to do


What I'm suggesting is that you've seen Nick, McGee, and Kevin play dozens of regular season NBA games and hundreds of minutes. So having that kind of "feeling" about them at least has some validity. How many games and minutes have you seen Rice Jr. play?

Did we really know anything about Ves's intelligence or bball IQ after the first 10 games of his NBA career?
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#345 » by Ruzious » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:30 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AFM wrote:I'll never doubt CCJ's abilities again. Wish we had kept Wolters, he's way better than Maynor, who honestly makes me cringe. GRJR may end up a good player, but he's not a player we need. We need a back up PG desperately.

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that Wolters isn't really the sensation everyone is making him out to be. He was thrust into a major minute role at the start of the season due to injuries, and played pretty well for his first 4 games, posting an ORtg of 114 and leading his team to a 2-2 record. But looking deeper, one can see that his competition was some of the worst teams in the league (NYK, BOS, TOR, CLE) and that part of his advantage may have been that his opponents haven't scouted him.

In the 6 games since then, the Bucks have gone 0-6, losing by an average of 14 points; and Wolters is averaging 7 points and 4 assists in 30 minutes a game with a TS% of .416 and an ORtg 92.

On the season as a whole, he is posting a PER of 12.5 with a TS% of .446 and an ORtg of 102.

What is your point exactly? That Wolters isn't an all-star? That he isn't the best rookie in the league? That he has a lot to learn?

Would you say that a 22 year old 2d round pick rookie PG doing well against "some of the worst teams in the league" (i.e. the NBA) right out of the box is evidence that he was a bad pick? Or a good pick? Isn't that our subject here?

Are you from Oregon, because you're a strange duck.

People were talking as if Wolters is already a good NBA player. He isn't. Is that really hard to understand?

I like him and think he will become a very solid 3rd guard in the Jeff Hornaceck (sp?) mold. We'll have to wait to see how he develops. We don't have a crystal ball - as you like to say.
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#346 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:32 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AFM wrote:I'll never doubt CCJ's abilities again. Wish we had kept Wolters, he's way better than Maynor, who honestly makes me cringe. GRJR may end up a good player, but he's not a player we need. We need a back up PG desperately.

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that Wolters isn't really the sensation everyone is making him out to be. He was thrust into a major minute role at the start of the season due to injuries, and played pretty well for his first 4 games, posting an ORtg of 114 and leading his team to a 2-2 record. But looking deeper, one can see that his competition was some of the worst teams in the league (NYK, BOS, TOR, CLE) and that part of his advantage may have been that his opponents haven't scouted him.

In the 6 games since then, the Bucks have gone 0-6, losing by an average of 14 points; and Wolters is averaging 7 points and 4 assists in 30 minutes a game with a TS% of .416 and an ORtg 92.

On the season as a whole, he is posting a PER of 12.5 with a TS% of .446 and an ORtg of 102.


Exactly. Only reason Wolters is being mentioned because he got an opportunity. Not because he was deserving of that opportunity. Or that he performed well when given the opportunity. If Brandon Knight & Luke Ridnour hadn't of gotten hurt, Wolters would have never played.


No, Dat. I brought Wolters up because Washington could have had him and Blair instead of Maynor.

AFM is right about that guy, nate. :)

Consider Sanders' injury and roster changes as factors. Wolters cannot defend as well without Sanders. Regardless, nate, Wolters led the entire NBA in assists/turnovers after several games as a rookie starter. He is already a decent player.

Payitforward already mentioned points I totally agree with on second round picks and EG. I knew Wolters belonged in round one.

Wizardynasty, I think Wall might have befriended Maynor in the past. Eric M is a good playmaker but has flaws. Wolterd would not have put pressure on Wall but he would have helped the second unit IMO.

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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#347 » by AFM » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:54 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that Wolters isn't really the sensation everyone is making him out to be. He was thrust into a major minute role at the start of the season due to injuries, and played pretty well for his first 4 games, posting an ORtg of 114 and leading his team to a 2-2 record. But looking deeper, one can see that his competition was some of the worst teams in the league (NYK, BOS, TOR, CLE) and that part of his advantage may have been that his opponents haven't scouted him.

In the 6 games since then, the Bucks have gone 0-6, losing by an average of 14 points; and Wolters is averaging 7 points and 4 assists in 30 minutes a game with a TS% of .416 and an ORtg 92.

On the season as a whole, he is posting a PER of 12.5 with a TS% of .446 and an ORtg of 102.


Exactly. Only reason Wolters is being mentioned because he got an opportunity. Not because he was deserving of that opportunity. Or that he performed well when given the opportunity. If Brandon Knight & Luke Ridnour hadn't of gotten hurt, Wolters would have never played.


Wolterd


Pretty good nickname if he never pans out...
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#348 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:05 pm

AFM wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Exactly. Only reason Wolters is being mentioned because he got an opportunity. Not because he was deserving of that opportunity. Or that he performed well when given the opportunity. If Brandon Knight & Luke Ridnour hadn't of gotten hurt, Wolters would have never played.


Wolterd


Pretty good nickname if he never pans out...
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#349 » by hands11 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:14 am

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:
Are you suggesting you have no feeling about this kind of stuff when comparing players like Nick, Glen, McGee and Kevin vs players like Beal and Webster ?

I want all my players to be sharp. At a min sharp enough to know their role. Which is way a player like Ves doesn't bother me. At least he know what not to do


What I'm suggesting is that you've seen Nick, McGee, and Kevin play dozens of regular season NBA games and hundreds of minutes. So having that kind of "feeling" about them at least has some validity. How many games and minutes have you seen Rice Jr. play?

Did we really know anything about Ves's intelligence or bball IQ after the first 10 games of his NBA career?


Good points.

Here is my take. And that's all it is.

I like Glen regarding his ability to drive. Not sure what to think about his outside shot. Right now it looks questionable. I have seen him interviewed plenty of times and as someone who is intuitive about people, I think I see a lot in his personality that concerns me regard his sharpness, thought I don't question his drive. He is a project. I just think they need something else from that slot so I would be willing to move him based on what hia value might be in the near term. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see him break out right now. Just not sure that is realistic given what I see and what the rotations are.

Ves ... it was always harder to read him because of the language issue but he struck me as a transition, dunking, emotional type. As for court smarts, I felt Ves had it and said so even when most here said he was a bust. CCJ and I have probably been two most vocal about that regarding Ves. Regarding emotional smarts, I felt he was weak and he was put in a bad position, but in time he could get there with the right support around him and a team that utilized him for what he can do instead of busting on him for what he couldn't do. Kevin has more scoring talent but he wasn't as fundamental mentally. I don't expect him to be a lead dog but he can be a useful warrior and could have been better utilized better.

For me, I prefer Beal or Webster types. Wall is smart in my book both on and off the court. He just needs time. Trevor A is very basketball smart but a quieter type. Not a Webster. Useful for sure. But in the right mix of players. Nene is very talented and smart, but a little bit of a diva. But he has been a worrier the last two games and I like that. Gortat I like. Smart and emotionally solid.

So maybe you don't like it, but I do read players and I think its important to be able to do that when constructing a team. The pieces need to fit together. You don't want a team of Walls. That wouldn't work. You need the right mix.
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Re: GT #11: Wizards @ Cavs 7 PM CSN 

Post#350 » by pineappleheadindc » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:48 pm

.

Hi FAH --

Hey, gentle reminder on game thread for tonight.

You're on a bit of a roll.

:nod:
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