Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[dckingsfan]

Micheal Lee's article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... -new-york/

Tidbit on the Gortat trade, with mention of Asik.

"Before completing the deal for Gortat, the Wizards spoke with a handful of teams in an attempt to acquire a center because of the uncertainty surrounding Emeka Okafor’s neck injury. According to multiple people with knowledge of the situation, the Wizards contacted the Houston Rockets about disgruntled big man Omer Asik.

The conversation didn’t get very far, according to a source, because of the Rockets’ insistence on an unprotected first-round pick in the 2014 draft. At the time of the talks, Houston was still interested in seeing how the union between Asik and Dwight Howard would work out.

The Wizards were also apprehensive about the $15 million balloon payment that Asik is set to receive next season, according to the same source. Washington was finally able to make the deal with Phoenix when the Suns decided to accept a top-12 protected pick next summer."

I think the Rockets thought they could get an unprotected 1st... I think Asik coming out and asking for a trade hurt the Rockets, IMO.

[G-Wizards]

I think that we have to find a way to get Greg Monroe. Whether it be in free agency, or a trade, he'd work great in DC.
If we were to trade for him, Otto and a filler, plus a second round pick for him?
If we were to trade for him, I doubt he would try to leave DC.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[fishercob]

^ Yeah, the luxury tax would be an issue. We'd also have zero room to add depth at other positions. I like Boozer, but I think I would pass, or rather flip him to a third team for multiple players.

Actually, I am seeing that the '14-15 tax is estimated at $75.7M.

So making this deal would put us at about $60M before the Gortat extension. Extending Gortat and filling out the roster with $16M could be doable, especially if we're not paying a first round pick.

Gortat, Boozer, Nene, Porter, Webster, Rice, Beal, Wall, Maynor.

If Gortat got $10M, we'd have about $6M for the final 5-6 spots (i assume we'd leave one open).

It's tight for a year, and even if the worst case scenario hit whereby injuries forced signings that sent us into the luxtax, we'd be back well under the cap in the summers of 15 and 16.

While I am sure there are moves out there that represent better value propositions (particular when taking opportunity cost into account), I am trying to think like Ernie and Ted. I think this is a way to stay "on plan" for them.

[lastemp3ror]

Any chance Ernie is interested in trading for Derrick Williams? Supposedly there is a "99.9%" chance he will be traded very soon. It also looks like the Wolves are looking for 3 that can defend. We are stacked at the 3 and could use a scoring big who can come off the bench. Thoughts?

[hands11]

Vo not going to be point...jus tryin to make him more versatile, something we shouldve did with beal last yr while wall was out...the magic also have a very nice young roster with lots of potential,

Vucevic
Vo
Harris
Harkless
Nicholson
Oquinnn

I agree they do. But I am a believer in maximizing youth by sprinkling in some vets. I think they develop better that way.

Afflalo isn't expensive and they have lots of cap room already. And he is very productive. Even if they wanted to move VO to starting SG, I would still get Afflalo around if I was them. Give what he has produced, his value isn't going to drop right away even as a back up. They have well into next year before they should move him.

Turkoglu's expiring is what they should be dangling.

I wouldn't even move Glen Davis at only 6.4M for two years. Just no reason to unless they can land a bigger fish. All we really have is Nene for both. Now that is something I might consider.

[hands11]

Verbal's post:

---------------

The Kings have dealt theirs top 12 protected (to Cleveland). I think this pretty much means they can't deal it again.

I don't see the Magic dealing theirs. I think they want to acquire one more piece and see what they have with their young players. I could see them being "sellers" in the trade market in moving Arron Afflalo or Nelson if there is interest.

--------------

He isn't saying that they WILL deal Afflalo, just that they could be sellers around the trade deadline...

Right.

That is what I commented on.

Not sure what the problem was. I was pointing out why I didn't personally think it was all that likely.

Just my two cents.

[hands11]

Verbal's post:

---------------

The Kings have dealt theirs top 12 protected (to Cleveland). I think this pretty much means they can't deal it again.

I don't see the Magic dealing theirs. I think they want to acquire one more piece and see what they have with their young players. I could see them being "sellers" in the trade market in moving Arron Afflalo or Nelson if there is interest.

--------------

He isn't saying that they WILL deal Afflalo, just that they could be sellers around the trade deadline...

Aahh.

The Magic are rebuilding around their 8 young guys and future assets. I have no doubt that they'd deal any veteran to get more future assets. Above all, I'm quite sure they'd *love* to deal Nelson and/or Davis. And Afflalo has a player option in 2015-16, so I'm sure he's available too. The right deal for them would mean younger players, more cap room sooner, and more picks.

This is a team with a good GM, and you can look for them to speed right by us in the next couple of years.

That could happen, but I have little faith in a team that is two wet behind the ears.

It would be one thing if they can actually put it together enough as a young team to get some playoff experience. But if they are just talented and don't know how to win/close games, eventually they will need to add vets. Vets they already have. That's why they should be careful in moving that kind of experience if they don't have to. And they don't have to.

Nelson and Turk are the two main piece they should be loving to move. If I was them, I would keep Glen and Afflalo another year at least. Unless of court you can land gold in a ultra good player. A quality over quantity type move.

[hands11]

What about Ariza, Booker, Seraphin
for
Carlos Boozer

Boozer is heavily overpaid and aging (so he'd be a great fit here), but he's a good player.

He, Nene, and a re-signed Gortat fit together well as a 3-big rotation that could all limit one another's minutes; Vesely and Big Al could spell the top 3 as needed. This would make us a better team for the next two years -- we'd be pretty well positioned to give our young core some needed playoff experience and exposure, and this would help to worsen the pick we send to Phoenix.

Rose's recent injury makes Chicago consider this. There's no way they pay the luxtax to not truly contend, and this gives them the opportunity to get younger and to rebuild and re calibrate on the fly.

This also opens up two roster spots so we can sign a real backup PG -- either from the D-League or someone playing overseas.

The one issue is that once Gortat is extend, it makes filling out the roster and staying under the luxtax a little challenging. Darnit.

Would have to be a GM listening to the channels. If he is on the table, you consider it. If not, you wait for them to amnesty him and hope you win the big.

If not, Zaza could work here as well.

[fishercob]

What about Ariza, Booker, Seraphin
for
Carlos Boozer

Boozer is heavily overpaid and aging (so he'd be a great fit here), but he's a good player.

He, Nene, and a re-signed Gortat fit together well as a 3-big rotation that could all limit one another's minutes; Vesely and Big Al could spell the top 3 as needed. This would make us a better team for the next two years -- we'd be pretty well positioned to give our young core some needed playoff experience and exposure, and this would help to worsen the pick we send to Phoenix.

Rose's recent injury makes Chicago consider this. There's no way they pay the luxtax to not truly contend, and this gives them the opportunity to get younger and to rebuild and re calibrate on the fly.

This also opens up two roster spots so we can sign a real backup PG -- either from the D-League or someone playing overseas.

The one issue is that once Gortat is extend, it makes filling out the roster and staying under the luxtax a little challenging. Darnit.

Would have to be a GM listening to the channels. If he is on the table, you consider it. If not, you wait for them to amnesty him and hope you win the big.

If not, Zaza could work here as well.

It would be awesome if the Bulls amnesty Boozer and we are able to win his services. We'd have no trouble filling out the roster that way.

[hands11]

Any chance Ernie is interested in trading for Derrick Williams? Supposedly there is a "99.9%" chance he will be traded very soon. It also looks like the Wolves are looking for 3 that can defend. We are stacked at the 3 and could use a scoring big who can come off the bench. Thoughts?

He is a troubled player. I heard a nice review about this kind of players.

He can do lots of things, but that is partly the problem.

A man without a solid position.

Its causing development problems for him.

Monroe would be a good add. Liked that potential for a while now. But for me, I would almost rather Otto not be here if he came. I know to some the Otto/Monroe marriage sounds like a good story, but just not sure I'm a fan of such quietness.

[mhd]

WOW Derrick Williams for Mbah a Moute. I wonder if Sac is more inclined to trade Patterson now.

[dckingsfan]

Verbal's post:

---------------

The Kings have dealt theirs top 12 protected (to Cleveland). I think this pretty much means they can't deal it again.

I don't see the Magic dealing theirs. I think they want to acquire one more piece and see what they have with their young players. I could see them being "sellers" in the trade market in moving Arron Afflalo or Nelson if there is interest.

--------------

He isn't saying that they WILL deal Afflalo, just that they could be sellers around the trade deadline...

Right.

That is what I commented on.

Not sure what the problem was. I was pointing out why I didn't personally think it was all that likely.

Just my two cents.

Cool... nothing to see here

[J-Ves]

Any chance Ernie is interested in trading for Derrick Williams? Supposedly there is a "99.9%" chance he will be traded very soon. It also looks like the Wolves are looking for 3 that can defend. We are stacked at the 3 and could use a scoring big who can come off the bench. Thoughts?

The Wizards would need another asset coming back for there to be much interest. Williams has potential to be a nice rotation piece but right now Ariza is far and away the better player. Maybe if the Wolfs could wait until Dec 15 something like this could work:

Ariza + Maynor for Williams + Dieng + Price

The Wolfs get an outstanding wing defender who has improved his offense over the last two years, and will be on the hook for the next two years with Maynor.

The Wizards get a young athletic tweener forward who showed improvement in his three point shot last year. They will get the rest of this year and all of next year to decide if Williams is in their future plans. The Wiz also grab a youngish back up center who is on a dirt cheap contract for the next 4 years and slightly improve the back up point guard spot. Of course this trade kills alot of next years cap space, so the Wizards would be forced to sign Gortat if they want to compete next year.

[LyricalRico]

^Too late, DWill already headed to Sacto.

[payitforward]

Derrick Williams is not a good player. He has never been a good player in the NBA. He's a 6'9", 250lb player who averages -- get this! -- 0.7 offensive boards every 40 minutes. Overall, he's averaging 6.4 boards every 40 minutes.

Why would anyone want him? Above all, why would *we* want him?

Carlos Boozer is over the hill and expensive; someone will overpay for him next year. Again, why would we want someone like him?

We guaranteed $30m to Okafor, for which we got 2000 minutes. Isn't there something to learn from that?

[payitforward]

...The Magic are rebuilding around their 8 young guys and future assets. I have no doubt that they'd deal any veteran to get more future assets. Above all, I'm quite sure they'd *love* to deal Nelson and/or Davis. And Afflalo has a player option in 2015-16, so I'm sure he's available too. The right deal for them would mean younger players, more cap room sooner, and more picks.

This is a team with a good GM, and you can look for them to speed right by us in the next couple of years.

That could happen, but I have little faith in a team that is two wet behind the ears.

It would be one thing if they can actually put it together enough as a young team to get some playoff experience. But if they are just talented and don't know how how to win and close games, eventually they will need to add vets. Vets they already have. That's why they should be careful in moving that kind of experience if they don't have to. And they don't have to.

Nelson and Turk are the two main piece they should be loving to move. If I was them, I would keep Glen and Afflalo another year at least. Unless of court you can land gold in a ultra good player. A quality over quantity type move.

Hands, is there any data whatever supporting the claim I bolded above? Answer: no. If by "talented player" you mean "guy who actually plays well" then *that* is what you need more of. There is literally no such thing as knowing how to win. Teams win by outplaying their opponents. They outplay their opponents if their players outplay the opposing players. How could this *not* be true?

SA, for example -- your poster child (mine too) for a great franchise full of veterans -- became terrific almost immediately once they had Robinson and Duncan, both of whom were *young* and talented (they outplayed their opponents).

Lets say you have two teams, A and B, that are about equal -- they both have some good players and some bad ones. Lets say you take one of the good players off of Team A and put him on Team B, replacing him on Team A with one of Team B's bad players.

Now, these two teams are no longer about equal. Team B (having added a good player and ditched a bad one) is better than Team A (wch added a bad player and lost a good one). There are no cases in which this is not true.

[hands11]

Derrick Williams is not a good player. He has never been a good player in the NBA. He's a 6'9", 250lb player who averages -- get this! -- 0.7 offensive boards every 40 minutes. Overall, he's averaging 6.4 boards every 40 minutes.

Why would anyone want him? Above all, why would *we* want him?

Carlos Boozer is over the hill and expensive; someone will overpay for him next year. Again, why would we want someone like him?

We guaranteed $30m to Okafor, for which we got 2000 minutes. Isn't there something to learn from that?

Maynor averages 5.8 TRB per 36 which works out to the same as D Williams.

And Maynor is only 6-3 175

[hands11]

...The Magic are rebuilding around their 8 young guys and future assets. I have no doubt that they'd deal any veteran to get more future assets. Above all, I'm quite sure they'd *love* to deal Nelson and/or Davis. And Afflalo has a player option in 2015-16, so I'm sure he's available too. The right deal for them would mean younger players, more cap room sooner, and more picks.

This is a team with a good GM, and you can look for them to speed right by us in the next couple of years.

That could happen, but I have little faith in a team that is two wet behind the ears.

It would be one thing if they can actually put it together enough as a young team to get some playoff experience. But if they are just talented and don't know how how to win and close games, eventually they will need to add vets. Vets they already have. That's why they should be careful in moving that kind of experience if they don't have to. And they don't have to.

Nelson and Turk are the two main piece they should be loving to move. If I was them, I would keep Glen and Afflalo another year at least. Unless of court you can land gold in a ultra good player. A quality over quantity type move.

Hands, is there any data whatever supporting the claim I bolded above? Answer: no. If by "talented player" you mean "guy who actually plays well" then *that* is what you need more of. There is literally no such thing as knowing how to win. Teams win by outplaying their opponents. They outplay their opponents if their players outplay the opposing players. How could this *not* be true?

SA, for example -- your poster child (mine too) for a great franchise full of veterans -- became terrific almost immediately once they had Robinson and Duncan, both of whom were *young* and talented (they outplayed their opponents).

Lets say you have two teams, A and B, that are about equal -- they both have some good players and some bad ones. Lets say you take one of the good players off of Team A and put him on Team B, replacing him on Team A with one of Team B's bad players.

Now, these two teams are no longer about equal. Team B (having added a good player and ditched a bad one) is better than Team A (wch added a bad player and lost a good one). There are no cases in which this is not true.

There you go again. Choosing your definition of what I was saying and then making your cause with your definition of my position. Which is never my position.

What I was addressing was the types of things Randy has been trying to teach the Wizards recently. How to close games. Decision making in the final 4 minutes and how the game is different in those minutes verse earlier. How to play with a lead. How to stay focused and not revert to hero ball. Basketball wisdom that comes from experience and the school of hard knocks. This is the type of stuff that is typical of young developing players and more often true of those kinds of players playing with other young developing players. To a man you hear the experienced NBA players and coaching talking about this and how players need to learn how to play in this league and play the right way. How to play as a team at this higher level. And how the playoffs is an entirely different level from that. This isn't something that I thought was a topic of debate.

Never mind. Really. Its not worth it.

[fishercob]

Carlos Boozer is over the hill and expensive; someone will overpay for him next year. Again, why would we want someone like him?

In a vacuum, we wouldn't. Or, if you, Nivek, nate33, or I were running the Wizards, we wouldn't want him -- or more specifically, we wouldn't be in a position where he'd represent a best case scenario under the circumstances.

That said, despite all his warts, Boozer is a good, productive player. He's only signed for one more season after this one. He fits the profile of player that our leadership values in that he can help improve the team now but he won't get in the way of a big acquisition in the next 2-3 years. There's some merit in that line of thinking. He could play with either Nene or Gortat, would excel in pick and roll with Wall and would rebound the hell out of the ball.

Taking on Boozer's entire $16.8M salary next year via trade would be extremely risky. I could be easily convinced that it's the wrong move.

But if Chicago does indeed amnesty him this summer -- a distinct possibility given their financial situation and contention status -- I'd be all for aggressively pursuing Boozer in the amnesty auction. We should have the cap space to do so (assuming we renounce Ariza), and he'd be on a one year deal.

We could essentially trade Ariza for Boozer and still have the MLE to split up for depth to the backcourt, etc.

[payitforward]

Derrick Williams is not a good player. He has never been a good player in the NBA. He's a 6'9", 250lb player who averages -- get this! -- 0.7 offensive boards every 40 minutes. Overall, he's averaging 6.4 boards every 40 minutes.

Why would anyone want him? Above all, why would *we* want him?

Carlos Boozer is over the hill and expensive; someone will overpay for him next year. Again, why would we want someone like him?

We guaranteed $30m to Okafor, for which we got 2000 minutes. Isn't there something to learn from that?

Maynor averages 5.8 TRB per 36 which works out to the same as D Williams.

And Maynor is only 6-3 175

LOL....