MVP discussion thread

[mopper8]

On the Lebron position thing, people can roll their eyes at Miami calling itself a "positionless" basketball team but when you think about roles in the offense it's basically true. In terms of things Lebron does, it's not crazy to see a sequence of possessions like this for him:

(1) PnR ball-handler (guard duties)
(2) PnR screener with a roll to the rim to establish deep post position (big man duties)
(3) Coming off a screen for a catch-n-shoot opportunity (shooting guard duties)
(4) Spot-up 3 (cornerman duties)
(5) Off-ball cut to establish post position (combo forward duties)

Miami has a number of sets where the parts are basically interchangeable. They can run the same set 3 times in a row, but one time Lebron is the 1, Wade the 3, Bosh the 5, next time Wade is the 1, Bosh the 3, Lebron the 5, etc. etc. They have Mario Chalmers set ball screens for Lebron while Bosh spots up in the corner or flairs out to the wing while Battier sets a screen for him. So trying to pin down Lebron as having 1 position on offense is basically impossible. He's a combo guard and a combo forward/cornerman.

Defensively, he mainly guards opponent wings but whether its the 3 or 2 depends on match-ups. He'll take stretches on 1s and 4s and on rare occasions 5s. I'm not sure if he spends more time guarding 4s or 1s. I think it makes more sense to consider him a SF who slides over to the 1 and 4 for stretches than anything else, but I can see why people would call him either a point guard (because so much of Miami's offense runs through him) or a power forward (because he plays along the baseline and in the low & mid posts so much and almost always the biggest forward on the court for Miami)

[Pacerlive]

Wtf.. Lebron plays the pf? Explain why Haslem or battier end up banging with PF in the post?




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In general he would rather guard the easier of the two so battier guards the tougher player on defense. Its really not that complicated. Lebron is a point forward on offense and a situational defender on defense depending on the matchup and the need. Put him on David West for 7 games and he would get beat up so bad he wouldn't last. This is why Battier gets owned.

[Chalky White]

Wtf.. Lebron plays the pf? Explain why Haslem or battier end up banging with PF in the post?




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In general he would rather guard the easier of the two so battier guards the tougher player on defense. Its really not that complicated. Lebron is a point forward on offense and a situational defender on defense depending on the matchup and the need. Put him on David West for 7 games and he would get beat up so bad he wouldn't last. This is why Battier gets owned.

This exactly. At this point, considering how many minutes he spends there offensively in an order to manufacture mismatches with bigs, labeling LBJ as a PF is fair.

[Doctor MJ]

This exactly. At this point, considering how many minutes he spends there offensively in an order to manufacture mismatches with bigs, labeling LBJ as a PF is fair.

Meh, to me it just highlights how silly the positional designation is.

LeBron remains what he's always been: The director of his team's offense. To that extent, I'm actually fine people slotting LeBron in separately from George, but doing so only emphasizes that George is much less of a floor general as an offensive player than most of the very best offensive players in the game.

[Joao Saraiva]

So at what point do we assume LeBron scoring over 60% FG and 50% from 3 is a possibility? 70ts%? This guy is scoring at insane efficiency rates.

[xMADEinDADEx]

Damn bron was beasting today


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[Hero]

Some big games coming up.

Wed 27th -Spurs vs OKC
Dec 7th - Pacers v OKC
Dec 8th - Pacers v Spurs
Dec 10th - Heat v Pacers


All the contenders playing each other and the main MVP candidates playing each other. Can't wait.
This week we get to see KD vs Kawhi.

[MaliBrah]

last year lebron locked up the mvp before the all star break , wonder when he does this year

[JLei]

It would be travesty if Lebron doesn't win it. He's like soooooo good. Acknowledging that Durant and CP3 are playing at all time great level but it sometimes feels they are like a tier or even 2 below what Lebron is doing.

61-49-80 on 70%TS and while he is taking good shots they ain't all layups. He's been mediocre defensively (for his high standard) this year while being absolute GOAT/BOAT-tier offensively so far.

[B-easy]

When Lebron said he got better he wasn't lying.

[SideshowBob]

It would be travesty if Lebron doesn't win it. He's like soooooo good. Acknowledging that Durant and CP3 are playing at all time great level but it sometimes feels they are like a tier or even 2 below what Lebron is doing.

61-49-80 on 70%TS and while he is taking good shots they ain't all layups. He's been mediocre defensively (for his high standard) this year while being absolute GOAT/BOAT-tier offensively so far.

His defense since the loss to Boston has been as good as it's ever been in the regular season.

[JLei]

It would be travesty if Lebron doesn't win it. He's like soooooo good. Acknowledging that Durant and CP3 are playing at all time great level but it sometimes feels they are like a tier or even 2 below what Lebron is doing.

61-49-80 on 70%TS and while he is taking good shots they ain't all layups. He's been mediocre defensively (for his high standard) this year while being absolute GOAT/BOAT-tier offensively so far.

His defense since the loss to Boston has been as good as it's ever been in the regular season.

I've seen rotation mistakes that he normally doesn't make and just general letting his man drive into the lane (even since the Boston game). Perhaps avoiding fouls but he's given up a lot of straight line drives to players that shouldn't be able to get by him. It takes tons of energy to rotate to shooters and then get in front of them as they drive so I get it, but I've also noticed and while it's gotten better as he's gotten healthier it still could be better.

[SideshowBob]

It would be travesty if Lebron doesn't win it. He's like soooooo good. Acknowledging that Durant and CP3 are playing at all time great level but it sometimes feels they are like a tier or even 2 below what Lebron is doing.

61-49-80 on 70%TS and while he is taking good shots they ain't all layups. He's been mediocre defensively (for his high standard) this year while being absolute GOAT/BOAT-tier offensively so far.

His defense since the loss to Boston has been as good as it's ever been in the regular season.

I've seen rotation mistakes that he normally doesn't make and just general letting his man drive into the lane (even since the Boston game). Perhaps avoiding fouls but he's given up a lot of straight line drives to players that shouldn't be able to get by him. It takes tons of energy to rotate to shooters and then get in front of them as they drive so I get it, but I've also noticed and while it's gotten better as he's gotten healthier it still could be better.

Yeah I thought there was more of that earlier on but it's gotten progressively better over the last few weeks. His general activity level looks higher, he's been doing a better job of floor disruption, though that can lead to poorer on-ball defense if he's over committing on the help, so I can agree with you there to an extent. All that said, it's become typical of him in the last few seasons to improve defensively over the course of the full season as opposed to starting off intense, so not too concerned there. As you've already said, there's been some improvement as he's gotten healthier, so the improvement's already started.

[JLei]

His defense since the loss to Boston has been as good as it's ever been in the regular season.

I've seen rotation mistakes that he normally doesn't make and just general letting his man drive into the lane (even since the Boston game). Perhaps avoiding fouls but he's given up a lot of straight line drives to players that shouldn't be able to get by him. It takes tons of energy to rotate to shooters and then get in front of them as they drive so I get it, but I've also noticed and while it's gotten better as he's gotten healthier it still could be better.

Yeah I thought there was more of that earlier on but it's gotten progressively better over the last few weeks. His general activity level looks higher, he's been doing a better job of floor disruption, though that can lead to poorer on-ball defense if he's over committing on the help, so I can agree with you there to an extent. All that said, it's become typical of him in the last few seasons to improve defensively over the course of the full season as opposed to starting off intense, so not too concerned there. As you've already said, there's been some improvement as he's gotten healthier, so the improvement's already started.

Yah it's a non issue and won't be in the playoffs/ later in the year but if I'm going to post something drooling all over his game have to at least post the negatives as nit-picky as they are right now.

[Woodsanity]

Some big games coming up.

Wed 27th -Spurs vs OKC
Dec 7th - Pacers v Spurs
Dec 8th - Pacers v Suns
Dec 10th - Heat v Pacers


All the contenders playing each other and the main MVP candidates playing each other. Can't wait.
This week we get to see KD vs Kawhi.

How is Pacers vs Suns more interesting than Clippers vs Pacers?

[Shv3d]

I don't think it matters how many wins Miami ends up with, if LeBron has a 60/40/80 line there is zero chance anyone else wins the MVP.

[Hero]

Some big games coming up.

Wed 27th -Spurs vs OKC
Dec 7th - Pacers v Spurs
Dec 8th - Pacers v Suns
Dec 10th - Heat v Pacers


All the contenders playing each other and the main MVP candidates playing each other. Can't wait.
This week we get to see KD vs Kawhi.

How is Pacers vs Suns more interesting than Clippers vs Pacers?

Well!
Because...

Dec 7th - Pacers vs Spurs
Dec 8th - Pacers v OKC

I typed the wrong thing

Clips v Pacers will be great as well but I don't put the Clips as good as these teams right now. Their offense is solid but their defense isn't where it needs to be.

[Woodsanity]

Some big games coming up.

Wed 27th -Spurs vs OKC
Dec 7th - Pacers v Spurs
Dec 8th - Pacers v Suns
Dec 10th - Heat v Pacers


All the contenders playing each other and the main MVP candidates playing each other. Can't wait.
This week we get to see KD vs Kawhi.

How is Pacers vs Suns more interesting than Clippers vs Pacers?

Well!
Because...

Dec 7th - Pacers vs Spurs
Dec 8th - Pacers v OKC

I typed the wrong thing

Clips v Pacers will be great as well but I don't put the Clips as good as these teams right now. Their offense is solid but their defense isn't where it needs to be.

Fair enough just thought that was bizarre.

[GameTime_3]

So far my top 5; Below w/ Stats

LeBron; 25ppg on 58%, 5.8rpg and 6.8apg

Paul G; 24ppg on 46%, 6.2rpg and 3.2 apg

CP3; 19ppg on 45%, 2.4 spg and 12 apg

Kevin Love; 24ppg on 46%, 12rpg and 4.5apg

Kevin Durant; 28ppg on 45%, 7rpg and 5.2apg

As of now I have it;
1. Love
2. Durant
3. LeBron
4. CP3
5. PG

[fast-break]

So far my top 5; Below w/ Stats

LeBron; 25ppg on 58%, 5.8rpg and 6.8apg

Paul G; 24ppg on 46%, 6.2rpg and 3.2 apg

CP3; 19ppg on 45%, 2.4 spg and 12 apg

Kevin Love; 24ppg on 46%, 12rpg and 4.5apg

Kevin Durant; 28ppg on 45%, 7rpg and 5.2apg

As of now I have it;
1. Love
2. Durant
3. LeBron
4. CP3
5. PG

Love and Durant over Lebron?

Am I missing something...lol. They're doing good but neither their stats or record is better.