Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers

[LLcoleJ]

A question for you... do you think that KG's contract when he was a Timberwolf played a part into why he had limited postseason success?

Just for a frame of reference... in 02/03 KG made 25.2 Million(the MAX allowed per the CBA due to when he came into the NBA and caused the lockout no less) and TD made (12.1 max allowed for his years in NBA). It might be one of the hidden blessings that the Spurs had over the years that no one acknowledges over the years. The Spurs could put more pieces around Duncan than the Wolves could for KG because of the difference in salaries. And let us remember that these were two players in their respective primes.... not an aging superstar.

KG's wolves were also hit with some sanctions. So yeah, mad loyal KG could have asked out but he wanted to build something with the twolves. never did... but it was good of him. But is that the standard ?

The Spurs have put good quality players around Duncan and Parker. But are you assuming that the Lakers were going to sign Kobe to a smaller deal and then get a Parker type talent on a smaller deal, get some young guys like Green and Leonard and get a good bench? Because the LAkers are expected to get all the Max Cats... or at least go after them... it's not out of the possibility that the Lakers could field a SA type team. But that also doesn't mean they will have those type players available.

Why is this a hard concept to understand? It doesn't need to be determined. It needs to be acknowledged. It will be harder for the Lakers to have the pieces around Kobe if he takes such a big part of their respective cap. If you think differently great... most of us think it is a bit silly to think so.

The Lakers offered him the deal so I think they did so with a plan. If you think that is silly, ayt.

[Yoshun]

Kobe's contracts have never kept the Lakers from putting good teams around him before, why would this contract?

Kobe is going to suprise a lot of people. He's going to put up about 24-26ppg. He's been a jump shooter for years now, he hasn't lost his shot.

[Kilroy]

First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.

A question for you... do you think that KG's contract when he was a Timberwolf played a part into why he had limited postseason success?

Just for a frame of reference... in 02/03 KG made 25.2 Million(the MAX allowed per the CBA due to when he came into the NBA and caused the lockout no less) and TD made (12.1 max allowed for his years in NBA). It might be one of the hidden blessings that the Spurs had over the years that no one acknowledges over the years. The Spurs could put more pieces around Duncan than the Wolves could for KG because of the difference in salaries. And let us remember that these were two players in their respective primes.... not an aging superstar.

Why is this a hard concept to understand? It doesn't need to be determined. It needs to be acknowledged. It will be harder for the Lakers to have the pieces around Kobe if he takes such a big part of their respective cap. If you think differently great... most of us think it is a bit silly to think so.

That is being kind. It is illogical nonsense.

And that's and erudite and astute argument...

[microfib4thewin]

I don't think and I really don't wish that Kupchak is actually on board with this. This contract extension makes zero sense for a GM's perspective and Mitch should be smart enough to realize this. Letting Kobe go would have made more sense for the Lakers basketball wise than overpaying him for the next two years. Kupchak is the only figure from the Lakers that I have any faith in, and if he becomes the next Isiah then there is no hope for this franchise.

[Ayt]

@Kilroy
It is basic logic.

[fluffernutter]

Kobe's contracts have never kept the Lakers from putting good teams around him before, why would this contract?

Kobe is going to suprise a lot of people. He's going to put up about 24-26ppg. He's been a jump shooter for years now, he hasn't lost his shot.

This is amazingly.... I don't know what to say.

You want to HELP and FACILITATE your team to make a strong team. A team "can" in theory build a strong contender around Kobe's bloated contract but it's about a .005% chance, or lower. Just because The Lakers were gifted some amazing trades in the past does not mean that foolish expenditures should be allowed, because "eh, it worked out ok last time."

It's a game of odds. Kobe's stacked the deck heavily against a title run, and possibly even the playoffs. When you take so much of a team's salary you are diminishing the team's flexibility, ability to offer that money to others, etc.

Nothing is guaranteed, but good lord people. If you don't accept the fact that Kobe accepting this massive contract decreases the chance of the Lakers winning a title - well, we are done here. Nothing to talk about.

[Free Rider]

Why are we comparing Kobe to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan to KG? Why are we comparing the 90's to 2013?

I think Kobe got paid too much... But I'm not willing to call it a bad deal or tangible proof that the Lakers FO is inept and the Lakers are done as a contending franchise...

Who's to say someone like perhaps Mark Cuban, wouldn't have offered Kobe that much in Free Agency anyway just to **** with the Lakers... It'd be a win-win for him, especially if Kobe can still play...

You can't overpay someone because of the off chance that someone else might unreasonably pay him even more. There are a whole series of hypotheticals you could come up with as to why someone else may offer Kobe over $50 million but you have to deal with the most realistic alternatives and outcomes. If the Lakers FO gave Kobe $48 million because they really believed someone like Cuban might throw a Godfather offer at him then they're idiots. They outbid themselves in a market where they were the best possible suitors.

[microfib4thewin]

Kobe's contracts have never kept the Lakers from putting good teams around him before, why would this contract?

Kobe is going to suprise a lot of people. He's going to put up about 24-26ppg. He's been a jump shooter for years now, he hasn't lost his shot.

The last time Kobe won a title was when he was paid 23 mil at the age of 31. Next year, we are talking about a 36 year old Kobe making even more money in a more restrictive CBA, and you can see why some are concerned that the Lakers may have shot themselves in the foot.

[Kilroy]

I think the crux of the issue is how much do you think Kobe is worth?

As a Laker fan, I'd love for the answer to be -$10M a year... But I am positive if the Lakers had offered that, Kobe would have said "Thanks, but let's see what the open market says..." and entered free agency... And I'm also sure, if he can play anywhere near what he did last season, the contract the Lakers gave him wouldn't have seemed so unreasonable compared to what he was offered...

[Kilroy]

Why are we comparing Kobe to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan to KG? Why are we comparing the 90's to 2013?

I think Kobe got paid too much... But I'm not willing to call it a bad deal or tangible proof that the Lakers FO is inept and the Lakers are done as a contending franchise...

Who's to say someone like perhaps Mark Cuban, wouldn't have offered Kobe that much in Free Agency anyway just to **** with the Lakers... It'd be a win-win for him, especially if Kobe can still play...

You can't overpay someone because of the off chance that someone else might unreasonably pay him even more. There are a whole series of hypotheticals you could come up with as to why someone else may offer Kobe over $50 million but you have to deal with the most realistic alternatives and outcomes. If the Lakers FO gave Kobe $48 million because they really believed someone like Cuban might throw a Godfather offer at him then they're idiots. They outbid themselves in a market where they were the best possible suitors.

Who says? It happens all the time... Look at some of the extensions that were signed this season.

The point is, it's impossible to tell if it was a truly bad deal with what we know now.

And don't underestimate the financial back-lash that would have happened had the Lakers declined to match a $20M offer for Kobe this off season...

[Illogicality]

Kobe's contracts have never kept the Lakers from putting good teams around him before, why would this contract?

Kobe is going to suprise a lot of people. He's going to put up about 24-26ppg. He's been a jump shooter for years now, he hasn't lost his shot.

I doubt anyone is worried about his game offensively. It's how bad he'll be playing defensively.

[Kilroy]

@Kilroy
It is basic logic.

There's no such thing...

Especially when talking about the CBA or NBA contracts.

[LLcoleJ]

@Kilroy
It is basic logic.

What team do you support? If you don't mind me asking.

[Free Rider]

Why are we comparing Kobe to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan to KG? Why are we comparing the 90's to 2013?

I think Kobe got paid too much... But I'm not willing to call it a bad deal or tangible proof that the Lakers FO is inept and the Lakers are done as a contending franchise...

Who's to say someone like perhaps Mark Cuban, wouldn't have offered Kobe that much in Free Agency anyway just to **** with the Lakers... It'd be a win-win for him, especially if Kobe can still play...

You can't overpay someone because of the off chance that someone else might unreasonably pay him even more. There are a whole series of hypotheticals you could come up with as to why someone else may offer Kobe over $50 million but you have to deal with the most realistic alternatives and outcomes. If the Lakers FO gave Kobe $48 million because they really believed someone like Cuban might throw a Godfather offer at him then they're idiots. They outbid themselves in a market where they were the best possible suitors.

Who says? It happens all the time... Look at some of the extensions that were signed this season.

The point is, it's impossible to tell if it was a truly bad deal with what we know now.

And don't underestimate the financial back-lash that would have happened had the Lakers declined to match a $20M offer for Kobe this off season...

And it typically ends up being a disastrous mistake because more often then not you could have gotten that player at a much cheaper rate. Who were the Lakers really going to be bidding against/ Who else was realistically going to give him that kind of money? This fear of the unknown potential competitor is what leads to one awful contract after another in this league. Everyone's so afraid that someone will come up sneak up behind them that they just end up driving the price up.

[Champ1on]

Terrible deal. He is not worth that much. No team would consider that amount.

[Ayt]

@Kilroy
It is basic logic.

What team do you support? If you don't mind me asking.

It is irrelevant. You are arguing that limiting the resources with which a GM has to work under the salary cap does not impact the ability to make moves that will help the team win.

It is nonsensical.

[Kilroy]

You can't overpay someone because of the off chance that someone else might unreasonably pay him even more. There are a whole series of hypotheticals you could come up with as to why someone else may offer Kobe over $50 million but you have to deal with the most realistic alternatives and outcomes. If the Lakers FO gave Kobe $48 million because they really believed someone like Cuban might throw a Godfather offer at him then they're idiots. They outbid themselves in a market where they were the best possible suitors.

Who says? It happens all the time... Look at some of the extensions that were signed this season.

The point is, it's impossible to tell if it was a truly bad deal with what we know now.

And don't underestimate the financial back-lash that would have happened had the Lakers declined to match a $20M offer for Kobe this off season...

And it typically ends up being a disastrous mistake because more often then not you could have gotten that player at a much cheaper rate. Who were the Lakers really going to be bidding against/ Who else was realistically going to give him that kind of money? This fear of the unknown potential competitor is what leads to one awful contract after another in this league. Everyone's so afraid that someone will come up sneak up behind them that they just end up driving the price up.

What actually happens is people tell you based on rumor and supposition that you could have gotten the player at a cheaper rate... At best, it's 20/20 hindsight, at worst it's pure speculation.

With Kobe, there is no unknown... He will make you money as long as he stays on the court, no matter what you're able to pay him...

Teams over-pay because other teams do sneak up behind them all the time.

[MisterWestside]

I don't care how much money people make?

Well, okay then. Seems like it's otherwise, though.

you have proved I bragged about Kobe's contract?

No, I'm referring to how his huge contract can hinder the Lakers ability to build their roster, reposted for your convenience:

But it will be harder for them because the Lakers have finite amount of resources X, and Kobe takes Y amount of resources; leaving X-Y resources for everyone else. The larger Y is, the less X-Y resources are available for everyone else. Thus making it harder to acquire other players; that is unless they decide to accept the lesser amount of allocated resources available.

Did I actually have to explain that?

[EArl]

Terrible deal. He is not worth that much. No team would consider that amount.

You would be surprised. Raptors would give him the max if possible.
The Lakers will be fine.

[LLcoleJ]

And it typically ends up being a disastrous mistake because more often then not you could have gotten that player at a much cheaper rate. Who were the Lakers really going to be bidding against/ Who else was realistically going to give him that kind of money? This fear of the unknown potential competitor is what leads to one awful contract after another in this league. Everyone's so afraid that someone will come up sneak up behind them that they just end up driving the price up.

Yes, that's business though and it's not just the NBA. As far as the Lakers go though, it's probably a really good deal for them financially.

My point in this thread is really simple. ( other than the fact that I am focusing on the Lakers and not Kobe) The Lakers also know that they have a big TV deal to live up to. They have the Clippers playing well and they are not going to sit idly by.