Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert

[Johnny Hoops]

Boy we really do turn quickly on our players,,typical New York fan base. As I recall everyone was hyped over this kid as a rookie and excited about his return year 2, with his improved jumper.

Now he's had a bad start and the entire Knicks misfortunes are his fault. Now he's not even worth an empty can of tuna fish. Dam.

not all his fault. and i think we'd live with any mistakes he made on offense, any missed shots. but you're in the league because of defense and energy. that's your skill and you can always do that. but he's not.

You know, I've seen him overplay his man over and over again. But for real, how many deflections does he have, alot, only to be let down by mindless defensive lapses by his teammates. Really, who else on defense is committed? Noone is hyped on defense right now, noone: Not even Metta. I personally like THJ's defensive energy ( then tell me how he gets ignored in the corner by JR), how does this lack of confidence in him by JR, translates to positive energy on the defensive side. Shump is a gifted player being drained by a lack of defensive comittment by his teammates. You get him on a defensive oriented team and the Knick fan base will regret trading him. Trust me.

Defensive energy has alot to do with emotion, whether that's anger or whatever motivates you.

Deflections and steals really don't translate to good defense. Hell Allen Iverson lead the league in steals numerous times. Shumps defense has been brutal for a long time now - everybody takes him off the dribble and everyone loses him off the ball. This has been the biggest dissapointment.

He's not a smart defender - let me say that again - he's not a smart defender.

[Pharmcat]

ive been advocating trading him b4 the other GMs find out about how overrated he is
might be too late by now

[Riot Randolph]

ive been advocating trading him b4 the other GMs find out about how overrated he is
might be too late by now

we ladnry fieldsed ourselves?

[Johnny Hoops]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tommybeer/status/405349026125455360[/tweet]

OH BOY --- Iman lovers running for door.

Not really..dude he only took 3 shots. So that's his fault too?

Are you saying you want this kid to shoot more? I sure as hell don't --- I want him to defend smartly.

[MaseInYourFace]

not all his fault. and i think we'd live with any mistakes he made on offense, any missed shots. but you're in the league because of defense and energy. that's your skill and you can always do that. but he's not.

You know, I've seen him overplay his man over and over again. But for real, how many deflections does he have, alot, only to be let down by mindless defensive lapses by his teammates. Really, who else on defense is committed? Noone is hyped on defense right now, noone: Not even Metta. I personally like THJ's defensive energy ( then tell me how he gets ignored in the corner by JR), how does this lack of confidence in him by JR, translates to positive energy on the defensive side. Shump is a gifted player being drained by a lack of defensive comittment by his teammates. You get him on a defensive oriented team and the Knick fan base will regret trading him. Trust me.

Defensive energy has alot to do with emotion, whether that's anger or whatever motivates you.

Deflections and steals really don't translate to good defense. Hell Allen Iverson lead the league in steals numerous times. Shumps defense has been brutal for a long time now - everybody takes him off the dribble and everyone loses him off the ball. This has been the biggest dissapointment.

He's not a smart defender - let me say that again - he's not a smart defender.

Your exaggerating when you say long time...

[knickabocker88]

Expecting the World out of a 3rd year player, while a 10 year vet plays like a rookie and can do no wrong.

[Johnny Hoops]

You're assuming the only difference between a winning environment and a losing environment is Woodson.

You're also assuming that Shump's entire reason for being in the NBA, defense, should be affected by anything else but his lack of effort.

Woodson has a double standard, if Woody turns a blind eye for every late rotation JR makes, every dumb shot he take, every awful pass he makes yet Yanks Shumpert for 1 bad play it would effect him.

Shumpert out there playing scared afraid to make mistakes.

As for Shumpert's defense and energy, if you don't touch the ball guess what it's gonna have a neg effect on the other end as well.

@HerringWSJ @a4ltito PG had 17 points on 5/16 shooting in 34 mins Shumpert was on the floor. Scored 18 on 7/10 in the 15 Shumpert was out.

@HerringWSJ @JADubin5 Hibbert said afterwards that they saw that matchup and immediately/repeatedly targeted Smith and Bargs in PnR.

Jimmy Buttler could be a Knick ... and you guys would want to run him outta town too.

That is Shumpert's problem and no one else's. He is in the game to play defense. Everything else he gets is gravy.

Exactly and that is our biggest mistake - trying to make him a scorer. He should have been groomed as an 1st team defender -- not a go to scoring option because he has little to no offensive game/feel.

[GONYK]

Expecting the World out of a 3rd year player, while a 10 year vet plays like a rookie and can do no wrong.

Iman and JR have two different roles.

I get why people compare them, but ultimately, it's silly.

It is essentially the same as comparing Bargs to Tyson

[seren]

We are a better team without JR getting a single minute and that is a fact.

[GONYK]

We are a better team without JR getting a single minute and that is a fact.

Doesn't change that they have two different roles and what the gameplan for one isn't the same as the other

[god shammgod]

We are a better team without JR getting a single minute and that is a fact.

not yesterday. he was our only player in the plus column. and it wasn't because he played well. it was because when he was on the floor shump wasn't.

[MKCATL]

remember when people on this forum said he was going to be the next Dwayne Wade?

Good times, good times

More like Dwayne Wayne, ..., I'll let myself out

[shmeakone]

I don't understand how you go from being one of our best players arguably in that playoff run .. to this. Was the "knee surgery" he had in the summer that minor? Or is it just the trade rumors getting to his head?

[knickabocker88]

Expecting the World out of a 3rd year player, while a 10 year vet plays like a rookie and can do no wrong.

Iman and JR have two different roles.

I get why people compare them, but ultimately, it's silly.

It is essentially the same as comparing Bargs to Tyson

Shumpert was the one who saved the Knicks Sorry hides in Game 6 in Boston, When JR had Zero composure and Yankees/RedSox pt 2 was gonna happen. Shumpert should have JR's role. Doc Rivers said Shumpert was the Best player on the Knicks. Instead of letting him take the next step, the coach wants to give his job to JR, while JR is suspended.

The Knicks have marginalized Shumpert impact and stunted his growth ... he has some fault too but it's Woodson.

[thebuzzardman]

Muscular Gerald Wilkens with less offensive, a little bit more defense.

Basically, a 2nd round pick sort of talent.

[MaseInYourFace]

I don't understand how you go from being one of our best players arguably in that playoff run .. to this. Was the "knee surgery" he had in the summer that minor? Or is it just the trade rumors getting to his head?

A lot of dudes are struggling so far it's not just him. OUtside of Bargs who is really doing better than expected?

[Johnny Hoops]

Honestly his d has not been as good but it's still probably the best on the team. I know that's not saying much but man to man he's still probably our best defender.

He is our best individual defender. He still struggles with rotations and defending as part of a team concept.

a little off topic... but the problem is that we have a bunch of guys on this roster who could be passable man defenders... yet for some reason we employ this system that is predicated on having high iq rotations... its like we show off our weakness and beg the other team to take advantage of it... makes no sense to me...

Of all the things that bug me -- the most dissapointing part of watching this team may be watching us play pick and roll defense. Our continued switching just about drives me mad and half the time we don't even get to the bad match-up because we just give up a lay-up to the cutting big man.

My first move would be to eliminate switching on the high screen and demand that all PG/SG go under the screens -- I would prefer teams beat me with PG/SG chucking up long 2/3s from the top of the key to giving up lay-ups at the rim all night long.

[Johnny Hoops]

I don't understand how you go from being one of our best players arguably in that playoff run .. to this. Was the "knee surgery" he had in the summer that minor? Or is it just the trade rumors getting to his head?

I think a lot of his issues go back to his refusal to play the PG in Vegas or the fact that he left Vegas early. This created a rift with the coach/management/owner and put undue pressure on IMAN. He obviously hasn't handled the pressure well and that is dissapointing in itself.

The other thing is -- he wasn't all that great last year. He hit the 3-4 3-pointers late in the one Indy game and people thought a star was born. In reality he has always been very average offensively and that has got worse this season.

[god shammgod]

I don't understand how you go from being one of our best players arguably in that playoff run .. to this. Was the "knee surgery" he had in the summer that minor? Or is it just the trade rumors getting to his head?

I think a lot of his issues go back to his refusal to play the PG in Vegas or the fact that he left Vegas early. This created a rift with the coach/management/owner and put undue pressure on IMAN. He obviously hasn't handled the pressure well and that is dissapointing in itself.

The other thing is -- he wasn't all that great last year. He hit the 3-4 3-pointers late in the one Indy game and people thought a star was born. In reality he has always been very average offensively and that has got worse this season.

people do seem to forget that he david west on him most of the time and couldn't take advantage

[Johnny Hoops]

We are a better team without JR getting a single minute and that is a fact.

He has been brutal so far and I've always been a JR supporter.

I know he had the knee injury but the suspension is all on him and he doesn't appear to be close to the shape he was in last year. We could be seeing a classic case of a guy being on his best behavior in a contract year. Plus it's easy to believe that many players resent JR over the Chris Smith situation and he's not the easiest guy to play with.

What is weird was last year -- everyone seemed to really like JR and he seemed to be a good teammate. Things seem different this year in terms of play and vibe.