Game 14. (5-8) Vs. milwaukee bucks. (2-10) 7:30 PM.

[Blkbrd671]

I like seeing that neither Jennings nor Smith lead us in FGA.

Also, Im impressed with Stuckey, I wanted to ship him out of here ASAP but he seems to really have embraced his role as 6th man. He looks renewed out there and has been very consistent.

I am with you Pop, Stuckey is sucking me back into his trap of hope that he'll become the player he's always had the capability of becoming. His shot looks much improved and it seems he's playing within himself. Having said that, get him out before the real stuckey comes back, and even if he maintains this, he'll be looking for more money next year and KCP is a much better prospect at SG. So trade makes the most sense

[DetroitSho]

Worried its just fool's gold with Stuckey... Last time he played this good it was also a contract year.

Actually Stuckey has NEVER played this good.

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Stuckey is NOT just having a contract year. Not that anyone would not be motivated in a contract year, but there is more evidence that this is because of coaching changes.

Two seasons ago he continued his post contract year play that season. His numbers were almost identical but his assists were down because the ball was out of his hands. Frank used him as a combo guard to help take pressure of rookie Brandon Knight starting. He played through injuries much of that year and didn't protect his numbers at all, so they underrate him. He was actually better that season as a player than in his contract year.

The year after was his worst of his career. First Frank mandated Knight be the "true PG" and Stuckey the prototypical shooting guard and had him take long 3s, then that failed and he benched him for Kyle Singler. So we have one year of improvement after contract, then the worst season for him ever. It's not like that set a pattern of him being happy with his pay. Coincidentally, he was being used as a 3 point spot up shooter by Lawrence Frank and he was a bad spot up 3 point shooter and now his role is 100% different. Contract year or not, if he was still behind Bynum and Singler as options and was just a 3 point shooter he'd be having an unimpressive, if not bad season.

Basically he has been incrementally improving every year aside from when Frank was trying to get himself fired. With Kuester he was held back to a degree too, he had to slow it down and wasn't allowed to create off the dribble much, and the team in those days had no one decent for him to pass off to.

Right now he is at his best ever, according to advanced stats he is top 5 as a SG and has been rising. He's being allowed to play to his strengths and his shot has improved. And no one is expecting him to not be a combo guard, due to odd fascination of the conceptual "true PG" playing style people wanted. He is still sharing the ball, setting people up nicely, and creating defensive breakdowns for opposition.

Stuckey having trade value is a great thing for the team now and we should try and get something very good out of him, but he is also critical for our attempts to win. We should be open to trading other people as well. For example, Jennings has been worse than Stuckey throughout their careers, except Stuckey's worst season of all time last year. And Stuckey is way ahead this year. Stuckey's play creates quite a lot of flexibility and attractive options for trades of him or other pieces.

Actually I agree with everything you said. When I made my comment it might have come off as "this is contract year Stuckey" but it wasn't my intent. I think Stuckey is playing pretty much the same way he always has (except the last 2 years). But the difference is his jumpshot is little more reliable which opens up his driving a little more, causing less charges.

Honestly if Stuckey was doing what he was doing now, but he was starting and had Rip at SG and Tay at SF then people wouldn't be so happy. That's just it, he's doing, to me, what he's always done but waaaaay better. But now its his defined role so for the first time he's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, while ironically doing the same thing he's been doing.

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[tmorgan]

Andre uses his superior gifts in one way only right now -- his throwdowns are quick and powerful.

That's cute, Andre, but how about shutting down your man, rotating when it's smart, and powering thru some fools that have no business stopping you around the rim?

The kid is going to be very good anyway, but if he wants to be great, be an All-Star, be a legend, he needs to grow a pair and start banging.

People kill me thinking a 20 year old should already have it all figured out by now.

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YOU kill me with your gross exaggerations. "All figured out" and playing with more aggression are hardly the same thing, so stop with the ridiculous statements.

[tmorgan]

And as for Stuckey, if we can trade him for his current playing level value, we MUST. I'd take a late 1st in next year's draft instantly -- the draft is good and deep, Stuckey is expiring anyway, and we can't afford to resign him. We all know what content Stuckey brings to the table, and it just isn't that much.

By all means, what late 1st round pick is better than what Stuckey is bringing?

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None right now. What's your point? It's an asset.

Stuckey is helping us win, so I'm no hurry. The fallacy of holding onto players only when they suck leads to a loss of assets. Stuckey is playing very well, and if we can get that kind of value in return, whatever it is (pick(s), young players), we should do it. The EC is horrible and injury-plagued and we could definitely finish as high as third or fourth, but we aren't beating Indiana or Miami. Think long term.

I like Stuckey. He's interesting. He's also not this good. The way this board gets down or up on someone so quickly is crazy. I know he's being utilized better, so props to Cheeks for that, but I also know how good Stuckey actually is.

[DetroitSho]

Andre uses his superior gifts in one way only right now -- his throwdowns are quick and powerful.

That's cute, Andre, but how about shutting down your man, rotating when it's smart, and powering thru some fools that have no business stopping you around the rim?

The kid is going to be very good anyway, but if he wants to be great, be an All-Star, be a legend, he needs to grow a pair and start banging.

People kill me thinking a 20 year old should already have it all figured out by now.

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YOU kill me with your gross exaggerations. "All figured out" and playing with more aggression are hardly the same thing, so stop with the ridiculous statements.

Do you realize what you initially said? You want him not only shut down his own man but also know when to rotate and cover the help side. The description you gave is that of a DPOY. I would put that in the "all figured out" bucket when it comes to defense. So yeah, I stand by what I said.

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[Blkbrd671]

Andre uses his superior gifts in one way only right now -- his throwdowns are quick and powerful.

That's cute, Andre, but how about shutting down your man, rotating when it's smart, and powering thru some fools that have no business stopping you around the rim?

The kid is going to be very good anyway, but if he wants to be great, be an All-Star, be a legend, he needs to grow a pair and start banging.

People kill me thinking a 20 year old should already have it all figured out by now.

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YOU kill me with your gross exaggerations. "All figured out" and playing with more aggression are hardly the same thing, so stop with the ridiculous statements.

well tmorgan one over-exaggeration deserves another. Dre's defensive problems stem from the fact that he's young and still learning, while he does have instincts, he really can only carry you so far at the NBA level. Also this perceived notion that he should be out muscling majority of ppl at the rim is incorrect, Dre's a man child but he's by no means a unstoppale strong force. His major problem which you do not mention is his lack of boxing out. Then you mention that he needs to start "banging" and "grow a pair", really!? because andre's style of play is not aggressive? if you've watched the game, read the articles and listen to piston announcers and scouts, Andre is still learning the game, and the fact that he's 20 years old seems to be ignored by you. which DSho is just pointing out and by reading your post has somewhat of a valid point. The fact that he's sometimes over aggressive makes your post that much more irrelevant and quite honestly underrates the talent of the NBA. Dre is not lebron...........yet


If anything the biggest frustration with Dre is that sometimes he loses focus and tries to go outside his game or offense/defensive scheme. Something you'd expect from a 20 year old.

[tmorgan]

We're watching different players, then. He's rarely if ever over-aggressive. If there's a man in front of him, he puts it off the glass 9 times out of 10.

I'll grant that I asked for a lot of things. What I don't like is that Dre seems to be getting a pass on improving because he's 20. He's obviously got a lot more stamina this year, which is great, but he still has a ton of work to do. Pacing himself seems to have taken a lot of his fire, which worries me.

I see an amazing player in Andre Drummond. I know it will take time to unfold, which surely you'd realize if you've read any of my dozens of posts on him in various threads. What I want, RIGHT NOW, is for him to play more aggressively, both on offense and defense. It's going to come with some extra fouls and bonehead plays, but I don't want him to settle into a role of a passive player. Try to dunk on people, Dre! Go up and contest that shot even if you're a little late! We have the depth to survive a little foul trouble -- indeed, it might help us, because it'll mean less minutes for Josh at the 3.

[Blkbrd671]

We're watching different players, then. He's rarely if ever over-aggressive. If there's a man in front of him, he puts it off the glass 9 times out of 10.

This isn't 2k bud, you expect dre to posterize every single player when the fact that if its a lay up or dunk really doesn't matter as long as it goes in. Additionally if you've ever been a post player, you actually have to learn how to get to the rim and finish with contact which is all about your base and positioning. And this perceived rarely over aggressive is because he has no post move that fools his defender who just remains right in front of him, again something he'll eventually develop, but at 20 years old is no surprise that he hasn't.

I'll grant that I asked for a lot of things. What I don't like is that Dre seems to be getting a pass on improving because he's 20. He's obviously got a lot more stamina this year, which is great, but he still has a ton of work to do. Pacing himself seems to have taken a lot of his fire, which worries me.

i strongly believe that defensively he has struggled do to the weight loss, a 300lb dre is alot better defensively than a 285lb dre as oppponents have a harder time being aggresive with him. Additionally i think the majority of this board and piston fans rather have dre for 30+min pacing himself than barely 20 minutes and posterizing players when either way its still 2 points.

I see an amazing player in Andre Drummond. I know it will take time to unfold, which surely you'd realize if you've read any of my dozens of posts on him in various threads. What I want, RIGHT NOW, is for him to play more aggressively, both on offense and defense. It's going to come with some extra fouls and bonehead plays, but I don't want him to settle into a role of a passive player. Try to dunk on people, Dre! Go up and contest that shot even if you're a little late! We have the depth to survive a little foul trouble -- indeed, it might help us, because it'll mean less minutes for Josh at the 3.

i'm not calling you a hater, but your previous post and this post just enforces the perception that your being unrealistic. Your basically want dre to have a ton more of highlights at the expense of time on the floor, which quite frankly makes 0 sense when we are trying to win. Our team is much better with Dre on the floor and that's not really debatable. Trying to use Smith as the reason is really straw man. Defensively i do think he can challenge more shots and block a lot more, but i'm not going to pretend like he doesn't alter and block enough shots as it is. Its more to do with experience and knowing his limits which comes with experience, which again rienforces Detroitsho's point that he's only 20 years old in his 2nd year

[DetroitSho]

We're watching different players, then. He's rarely if ever over-aggressive. If there's a man in front of him, he puts it off the glass 9 times out of 10.

I'll grant that I asked for a lot of things. What I don't like is that Dre seems to be getting a pass on improving because he's 20. He's obviously got a lot more stamina this year, which is great, but he still has a ton of work to do. Pacing himself seems to have taken a lot of his fire, which worries me.

I see an amazing player in Andre Drummond. I know it will take time to unfold, which surely you'd realize if you've read any of my dozens of posts on him in various threads. What I want, RIGHT NOW, is for him to play more aggressively, both on offense and defense. It's going to come with some extra fouls and bonehead plays, but I don't want him to settle into a role of a passive player. Try to dunk on people, Dre! Go up and contest that shot even if you're a little late! We have the depth to survive a little foul trouble -- indeed, it might help us, because it'll mean less minutes for Josh at the 3.

Andre is getting a pass on improving? Yeah this is where I bow out gracefully.

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[tmorgan]

All of this 2K nonsense, whether I'm a "hater", and "posterizing people" tells me where you're coming from. It's not what I'm talking about. We're talking by each other. I tried. You disagree. We move on.

[Blkbrd671]

All of this 2K nonsense, whether I'm a "hater", and "posterizing people" tells me where you're coming from. It's not what I'm talking about. We're talking by each other. I tried. You disagree. We move on.

actually no, i making very legit points , your just refusing to debate them because i think you even know your being high maintenance or trying to make a argument where there is one. When someones complain that he's not dunking the ball enough and just laying the ball up, its pretty self explanatory. I understand if you want to move on and its fine.

[DetroitSho]

All of this 2K nonsense, whether I'm a "hater", and "posterizing people" tells me where you're coming from. It's not what I'm talking about. We're talking by each other. I tried. You disagree. We move on.

actually no, i making very legit points , your just refusing to debate them because i think you even know your being high maintenance or trying to make a argument where there is one. When someones complain that he's not dunking the ball enough and just laying the ball up, its pretty self explanatory. I understand if you want to move on and its fine.

Especially since he leads the league in dunks.

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[mercury]

Nice game against the Bucks :^)

[Blkbrd671]

All of this 2K nonsense, whether I'm a "hater", and "posterizing people" tells me where you're coming from. It's not what I'm talking about. We're talking by each other. I tried. You disagree. We move on.

actually no, i making very legit points , your just refusing to debate them because i think you even know your being high maintenance or trying to make a argument where there is one. When someones complain that he's not dunking the ball enough and just laying the ball up, its pretty self explanatory. I understand if you want to move on and its fine.

Especially since he leads the league in dunks.

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ironically

[princeofpalace]

Worried its just fool's gold with Stuckey... Last time he played this good it was also a contract year.

This is also always in the back of mind. I love how he's playing and I don't want to trade him but I also wonder if it's best to sell high considering his history of inconsistency.

If we could trade Stuck for a first rounder then Id be down, but if we all we could get for him is peanuts then I say hold onto him. But, I don't want Dumars to make the mistake of overpaying him in FA again. Right now, he's looking like a solid 3rd guard in Joe's coveted 3 guard rotation though.

[tmorgan]

Hmm. He really is leading the league in dunks by a pretty wide margin, averaging 3 a game. Guess my expectations were just off. I still hate those softy layups he does, but I'm guessing it boils down to not wanting to shoot free throws. He really needs to gain some confidence at the line.