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Josh Smith Trade Ideas

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Q00
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#101 » by Q00 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:21 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:Josh is just lost on defense and its looking more like a trend unfortunately. Its actually pretty mind boggling.


Read the thread "Josh Smith's defense". The OP makes very good analysis of the causes of why his defense has looked that way. When you have poor defenders around you and a poorly coached team defensive system, even Ben Wallace would look confused on defense.

There are constant defensive lapses around him from his teammates, causing him to have to try and cover the whole court himself. Combine it with a coaching scheme that tells the players to all follow the ball to the paint, regardless of the opposition's personnel, and all out chaos will ensue when you face great 3 point shooting teams.

Smith is a good defensive player, both team and individual. He's proven that over a 10 year career. Cheeks has never had consistently good defenses in his coaching career. Jennings and Monroe have never been consistent defenders. So I think you have to look at them as the reasons why Smith looked confused so often. The Knicks game was a good example. Cheeks simplified the game plan to basically just Smith v Carmelo on defense, knowing they had no other way to beat us. Smith was able to just stay locked on Melo and not worry about covering other teammates mistakes, and he shut him down for the most part. Smith is a good/smart defender and one of the few we currently have. If we want to improve on defense, we shouldn't be trading our best defender. They need to trade the real problem players/coaches and get back better defenders/scheme to put around him.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#102 » by DetroitPistons » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:52 pm

princeofpalace wrote:Here are teams I think would have interest in Smith

Lakers- but they have nothing of interest
Denver- maybe for some combination of Gallo/Chandler/Hickson- they need to consolidate talent
Houston- to pair up with Dwight, maybe trade Asik/T. Jones
Boston- to pair up with Rondo, maybe trade Green
Spurs- to pair up with Duncan, but they wont trade Kawhi- which is the guy we'd love to get back
Raps- Gay for Smith/Jerebko- Gay atleast expires next season.


I really like Denver, Houston, and Boston as trading partners. If Denver/Boston wants Smith than we can trade him straight up for Chandler/Green. We can also a three team deal with those teams that has Smith going to a third team.

There are so many perfect options for us out there, including Chandler, Green, Deng, and maybe even Barnes. All of those guys are solid two-way SF's and would do wonders for this team on the both ends of the floor. Dumars needs to get one of those guys for Smith.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#103 » by wire28 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:02 pm

Q00 wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Josh is just lost on defense and its looking more like a trend unfortunately. Its actually pretty mind boggling.


Read the thread "Josh Smith's defense". The OP makes very good analysis of the causes of why his defense has looked that way. When you have poor defenders around you and a poorly coached team defensive system, even Ben Wallace would look confused on defense.

There are constant defensive lapses around him from his teammates, causing him to have to try and cover the whole court himself. Combine it with a coaching scheme that tells the players to all follow the ball to the paint, regardless of the opposition's personnel, and all out chaos will ensue when you face great 3 point shooting teams.

Smith is a good defensive player, both team and individual. He's proven that over a 10 year career. Cheeks has never had consistently good defenses in his coaching career. Jennings and Monroe have never been consistent defenders. So I think you have to look at them as the reasons why Smith looked confused so often. The Knicks game was a good example. Cheeks simplified the game plan to basically just Smith v Carmelo on defense, knowing they had no other way to beat us. Smith was able to just stay locked on Melo and not worry about covering other teammates mistakes, and he shut him down for the most part. Smith is a good/smart defender and one of the few we currently have. If we want to improve on defense, we shouldn't be trading our best defender. They need to trade the real problem players/coaches and get back better defenders/scheme to put around him.

joshua is a great defender, when his man actually has the ball. even more so when his man is in the post.

however, when he does not have the ball, he is not. he is a big man at heart, despite his size so he tends to lag more in the paint, even if his man is camped out for three. its just who he is, no problem in admitting that is a flaw in his game defensively.

and really we shouldnt expect him to be too cognizant of the position because again he is a big man at heart. he isnt used to having to worry about his man floating around the perimeter for 48 minutes.

if he was playing PF im sure we would be pleased with his defense, but he's not, he's playing SF and his defense as a small forward is horrid, to put it frankly. you can play help defense and still leave yourself in a position to contest the shot if your man gets the ball or close out enough to make him put it on the floor. thats hard to do when you are literally under the basket and your man is in the corner for three.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#104 » by Q00 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:24 pm

wire28 wrote:
Q00 wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Josh is just lost on defense and its looking more like a trend unfortunately. Its actually pretty mind boggling.


Read the thread "Josh Smith's defense". The OP makes very good analysis of the causes of why his defense has looked that way. When you have poor defenders around you and a poorly coached team defensive system, even Ben Wallace would look confused on defense.

There are constant defensive lapses around him from his teammates, causing him to have to try and cover the whole court himself. Combine it with a coaching scheme that tells the players to all follow the ball to the paint, regardless of the opposition's personnel, and all out chaos will ensue when you face great 3 point shooting teams.

Smith is a good defensive player, both team and individual. He's proven that over a 10 year career. Cheeks has never had consistently good defenses in his coaching career. Jennings and Monroe have never been consistent defenders. So I think you have to look at them as the reasons why Smith looked confused so often. The Knicks game was a good example. Cheeks simplified the game plan to basically just Smith v Carmelo on defense, knowing they had no other way to beat us. Smith was able to just stay locked on Melo and not worry about covering other teammates mistakes, and he shut him down for the most part. Smith is a good/smart defender and one of the few we currently have. If we want to improve on defense, we shouldn't be trading our best defender. They need to trade the real problem players/coaches and get back better defenders/scheme to put around him.

joshua is a great defender, when his man actually has the ball. even more so when his man is in the post.

however, when he does not have the ball, he is not. he is a big man at heart, despite his size so he tends to lag more in the paint, even if his man is camped out for three. its just who he is, no problem in admitting that is a flaw in his game defensively.

and really we shouldnt expect him to be too cognizant of the position because again he is a big man at heart. he isnt used to having to worry about his man floating around the perimeter for 48 minutes.

if he was playing PF im sure we would be pleased with his defense, but he's not, he's playing SF and his defense as a small forward is horrid, to put it frankly. you can play help defense and still leave yourself in a position to contest the shot if your man gets the ball or close out enough to make him put it on the floor. thats hard to do when you are literally under the basket and your man is in the corner for three.


We would clearly be better defensively with Smith at PF instead of Monroe. Not so much because it puts Smith in a better position to succeed, not having to chase around perimeter players, but because it puts our team in a better position having our two best shotblockers in the paint. Not to mention removes our worst defensive player who is borderline useless on that end in Monroe.

See, if we could protect the paint with just Dre/Moose like they are supposed to, then Smith wouldn't have to help inside when someone gets beat. He could trust those two to guard the basket. But when that duo has been one of the worst defensive duos in the league, statistically, Smith doesn't have that luxury.

I believe we can succeed defensively with Smith at SF, but it requires the 2 bigs to be able cover inside by themselves, which I personally expected we would have, but it just hasn't happened, and I largely blame Monroe. So we need to get Monroe out of that lineup and move Smith inside. He's not a bad team defender at all. Like any team defense, everyone needs to be on the same page or everyone looks bad, and you need each man to have some sembalance of consistent individual D too. It can be constant helping on mistakes all the time if you want to be a great defense. At some point guys need to start helping the others by staying with their own man and not getting beat all the time.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#105 » by OneBadMutha » Sun Dec 1, 2013 4:01 am

A Drummond/Smith front court makes a lot of sense. You'd have the most athletic front court in the league. Both could help inside. Smith is a good one on one defender freeing Drummond to worry about helping back-court penetration. No front court in the league could keep up with them in transition.

With Smith at the 3, the offense encourages him to take 3s since there's no space inside even if he muscles his guy into the post.

Monroe is the poor fit. He's a center. Monroe doesn't make sense at the 4 since he's exposed defensively and is no better offensively as a 4 than a 5 to compensate.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#106 » by captainrebel » Sun Dec 1, 2013 5:57 am

Signing Josh Smith is not a mistake. It’s an experiment that isn’t working as we hoped it would. With that said; if the right deal came along I would trade Josh in a heartbeat. If it didn’t take Joe so long to admit that his experiments aren’t working before he tries to correct them this team would be better than it is.
In a recent thread someone mentioned that Drummond should come off the bench and Josh Smith be moved to PF. I really don’t like the idea but I agree with it as I think it probably will get us more wins. I really don’t want to see Monroe or Drummond traded.
I believe Joe has learned from his past failed experiments and predicts that he will move Smith by mid-season. I just hope he doesn’t mortgage the palace in the process.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#107 » by TheRobin » Sun Dec 1, 2013 7:55 am

OneBadMutha wrote:A Drummond/Smith front court makes a lot of sense. You'd have the most athletic front court in the league. Both could help inside. Smith is a good one on one defender freeing Drummond to worry about helping back-court penetration. No front court in the league could keep up with them in transition.

With Smith at the 3, the offense encourages him to take 3s since there's no space inside even if he muscles his guy into the post.

Monroe is the poor fit. He's a center. Monroe doesn't make sense at the 4 since he's exposed defensively and is no better offensively as a 4 than a 5 to compensate.


This is the only rational thought in this thread.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#108 » by sc8581 » Sun Dec 1, 2013 8:44 am

TheRobin wrote:
OneBadMutha wrote:A Drummond/Smith front court makes a lot of sense. You'd have the most athletic front court in the league. Both could help inside. Smith is a good one on one defender freeing Drummond to worry about helping back-court penetration. No front court in the league could keep up with them in transition.

With Smith at the 3, the offense encourages him to take 3s since there's no space inside even if he muscles his guy into the post.

Monroe is the poor fit. He's a center. Monroe doesn't make sense at the 4 since he's exposed defensively and is no better offensively as a 4 than a 5 to compensate.


This is the only rational thought in this thread.


I've been saying this since we signed Smith and I was ridiculed over and over again, nice to see some of these guys are finally coming around.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#109 » by DetroitPistons » Sun Dec 1, 2013 10:22 am

"Monroe can't play PF" has been one of the longest running myths on this board and is simply used as a phantom evidence to justify people's agenda against Monroe. He has been even more affective at PF because of his size advantage in the post and the fact that he is no longer the primary rim protector. His defense has not been bad this season and should be considered a serviceable defender at least.

I agree Smith is better at PF but I would rather have Monroe because of his much higher BBall IQ, age, and polished back to the basket low post game.

I've said it plenty of times before, trade Smith for a good two-way SF (doesn't even need to have equal value) and this team will be miles better. Smith has crippled this team. We are a legit SF and a competent bench away from being a good team.
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Re: Josh Smith Trade Ideas 

Post#110 » by sc8581 » Sun Dec 1, 2013 8:35 pm

DetroitPistons wrote:"Monroe can't play PF" has been one of the longest running myths on this board and is simply used as a phantom evidence to justify people's agenda against Monroe. He has been even more affective at PF because of his size advantage in the post and the fact that he is no longer the primary rim protector. His defense has not been bad this season and should be considered a serviceable defender at least.

I agree Smith is better at PF but I would rather have Monroe because of his much higher BBall IQ, age, and polished back to the basket low post game.

I've said it plenty of times before, trade Smith for a good two-way SF (doesn't even need to have equal value) and this team will be miles better. Smith has crippled this team. We are a legit SF and a competent bench away from being a good team.


Trade Monroe for a good two-way SF and this team is even better than that.

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