GT #17: Hawks @ Wizards 7 PM CSN

[hands11]

Ive always been in the minority. Im like Coach Thibbs. I believe in a short bench. I like 8 core guys and maybe 9 at the most. If fully healthy then I would only play Web, Porter, & Al off the bench while sprinkling in Ves. That would be my full rotation. I think Beal, Web, & Ariza have earned there minutes while you have to see where Porter's potential. Therefore I would truly think about letting Beal start at the 2 but also be the backup PG. Forget Maynor. I think Temple sucks at the 2 but looked pretty solid at the 1 even though he hasnt played that much there. Still, those other guys deserve to play over him so I would see how Beal looks at the point and just go to more of a ball movement offense when he's at that spot

It depends on the team. If you have 8 solid guys - then that's your rotation. If you only have 6 solid guys and a bunch of question marks (like we do) then you've got to see who of your question marks is clicking that night.

Well Randy has been playing more of a 7 man rotation with high mins minutes for the starters. Which is fine once he figured out how to stagger the starters. Given the roster, injuries and the need to win games, that made some sense. Specially when the most important thing for this team was getting the starters to play the right way. Something they are still working on but I see improvement. Nice to see how much more the team uses the bounce pass screen and roll stuff.

Once healthy, I hope AH is used sparingly unless he shows he can defend better. He is a nice vet piece to have on the bench because he can score but I wouldn't us him to much. From there, they just need to keep building, evaluating and developing what they have so they can decide who stays and who needs to get moved to upgrade the bench. They need to clear some roster spots so they can add another bench center 7-0. Anything like a Zaza type could really help the depth.

Again, he isn't the hot topic, but Singleton is who I am most focused on right now. If he can get it going, his size and skill set could really help. I think he could take Booker's place if he can get his shot going. 6-9 with a strong build with better handles, shot and he was supposed to be a good defender.

[nate33]

the minutes are too much but Witt is just as bad as the bench is. We have 5 legit starters out there right now so there is no reason why Witt shouldnt be able to stagger the lineup to get atleast 2 starters in with the 2nd unit but routinely it is always all 5 bench players on the floor together or just 1 starter at the most and that starter is always Webster or Ariza which would be the worst of the 5 to put in with that group because the other 3 guys can score and create on there own. Witt is just an idiot. His rotations are terrible

Get out a piece of paper and try to do this. It's not as easy as it sounds. When you are working with an 8 player rotation, it's pretty difficult to stagger things so that everyone plays a reasonable number of minutes, and there are always two starters on the floor.

The problem is that you want your starters to play at least 6 consecutive minutes before getting yanked, because you need some time to get into the flow of the game. You also want your starters to finish the game. So that leaves just 12 or so minutes in the middle of each half where you play your bench. But if you only have 2 or 3 bench players, they need to cover the rest for multiple starters. So at best, you can trim your starters minutes down to 36, but that's it. And that's only if you get your subs in at exactly the 6 minute mark. If your starters are hot and you want to ride them a bit longer, or if there isn't a stoppage of play at the right time, before you know it, your starters are playing 40 minutes.

[Earth2Ted]

Watched the team for the 1st this weekend and my thoughts are that we are a playoff team health permitting -even with the crappy bench. Think about what Webster ariza nene and gortat have done for us since joining the team over the past yr- as much as we love to hate on Ernie he deserves a little credit for those guys.

I was impressed how they handled the hawks intensity during that 2nd half run. And on the 4th game in 5 nights.

Now if we can do something about that bench... Too bad we can't get satoransky over here I think he's an nba player and nba athlete and eric maynor just isn't nba anything right now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

one can dream. [/quote
A.J. Price can shoot and do nothing else. He doesn't defend. Everybody bashed him last year and we bashed Mack, who looks quicker after he got in shape. Something has to happen there. Garrett Temple is not the answer at the 1, 2, or 3.

You think a criticism of Price means anything? He's better than Eric Maynor. That means that if we had him instead of Eric Maynor we'd be a better team. Duh. Oh, and he's also cheaper than Eric Maynor.

Everybody bashed Ernie for signing Price -- it would certainly have been possible to find a better choice -- but I don't recollect that people bashed him during the season very much. Iin fact Price had the best year of his career for us.

So... we sign a guy at veteran minimum, and he outplays his whole career -- and our GM's response is to let him walk for Eric Maynor.

A lot of people did bash Mack, however; you're right there. He's playing very well this season -- a lot better than Eric Maynor!!

I always felt Shelvin Mack is better than what Sam Cassell and the Wizards thought of Mack. I criticized them for waiving Mack and praised them when they brought Shelvin up from the D-League. Mack also got called up by the Nets last season, before he made a lasting impression at the end of last season with the Hawks. Mack plays ahead of prized rookie, Dennis Schroeder. He's going to be in the league a long time.

Shevlin went to consecutive Final Fours. The guy is a defender and a fairly decent scorer. I think Price was also a competitor who could hit big shots and defend well. I think both those guys are better overall than Eric Maynor.

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[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Mack looked good last night. I wish we had him instead of Maynor.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I freakin hate Milsap.......ugh. Knew he would kill us

Millsap is a player I hoped that the Wizards would add back when they had Jamison and Butler, but rebounding and toughness kept the Wizards losing to the Cavs. I posted about Millsap over a year before the draft when he went 47. They passed him over twice at least. Millsap could have helped a lot.

I hate the Wizards didn't value him, or DeJuan Blair (both in draft year and free agency), or another similar player, Kenneth Faried.

The Wizards still need that kind of player.

Energetic rebounders add possesions if they can avoid foul problems and turnovers. Reggie Evans could help if the Wizards could work a good trade.

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[hands11]

Mack looked good last night. I wish we had him instead of Maynor.

I disagree.

I'm fine that they moved away from Mack and Price for what they wanted as a back up PG. Mack will have some good games and can carve a spot out for himself as a bench player somewhere but I still think he will bounce around the league. Same with Price. They will find moments of being in the right place at the right time but mostly teams will always be looking to upgrade them and they won't stay regular rotation players.

Mack made some good plays last game that were aggressive. Good for him. That's what he should be doing. But he also made some costly turnovers down the stretch and had 6 fouls in 25 mins. He tried to bring it against his old team as did Martin, but neither as very good NBA players and they will likely always get pushing out for better vets or prospects.

These types of players are 3rd options for their position. As for the Wizards. Maynor is fine for now. I think we will start to see him get more efficient as the team gels. Back up PG can be tricky. What do you want ? Pts ? A floor general that is part of the locker room chemistry ? Can you fill that role with other ball handlers like a point forward so even a player like Temple would do. Can Thomas get done what you need ? We still do have him in the wings to bring over eventually.

For me, I'm not overly concerned with whats going on there. That's easier to get worked out then other decisions they need to make and with Thomas in the wings, they have some options.

Would I like a Blake or Kirk as the back up PG right now, oh course. But they have some time to work that out.

[hands11]

I freakin hate Milsap.......ugh. Knew he would kill us

Millsap is a player I hoped that the Wizards would add back when they had Jamison and Butler, but rebounding and toughness kept the Wizards losing to the Cavs. I posted about Millsap over a year before the draft when he went 47. They passed him over twice at least. Millsap could have helped a lot.

I hate the Wizards didn't value him, or DeJuan Blair (both in draft year and free agency), or another similar player, Kenneth Faried.

The Wizards still need that kind of player.

Energetic rebounders add possesions if they can avoid foul problems and turnovers. Reggie Evans could help if the Wizards could work a good trade.

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Agree they could use another forward who brings that kind of stuff and I hope they trade for one. Right now I am watching Ves and Chris Singleton to see how much they can fill that role. But even with them, trading Kevin, Booker and maybe Glen could hopefully bring them a front court player. Spencer ? Zaza ? Hansbough ?

All bring something different but all could help.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Mack looked good last night. I wish we had him instead of Maynor.

I disagree.

I'm fine that they moved away from Mack and Price for what they wanted as a back up PG. Mack will have some good games and can carve a spot out for himself as a bench player somewhere but I still think he will bounce around the league. Same with Price. They will find moments of being in the right place at the right time but mostly teams will always be looking to upgrade them and they won't stay regular rotation players.

Mack made some good plays last game that were aggressive. Good for him. That's what he should be doing. But he also made some costly turnovers down the stretch and had 6 fouls in 25 mins. He tried to bring it against his old team as did Martin, but neither as very good NBA players and they will likely always get pushing out for better vets or prospects.

These types of players are 3rd options for their position. As for the Wizards. Maynor is fine for now. I think we will start to see him get more efficient as the team gels. Back up PG can be tricky. What do you want ? Pts ? A floor general that is part of the locker room chemistry ? Can you fill that role with other ball handlers like a point forward so even a player like Temple would do. Can Thomas get done what you need ? We still do have him in the wings to bring over eventually.

For me, I'm not overly concerned with whats going on there. That's easier to get worked out then other decisions they need to make and with Thomas in the wings, theey have some options.

Would I like a Blake or Kirk as the back up PG right now, oh course. But they have some time to work that out.

I don't disagree that Mack and Price are both journeymen, hands.

I even agree on Washington looking to upgrade their playmaking, which neither Price nor Mack are good at. However, while Maynor is a pure PG and foremost a playmaker, I think the Wizards severely mishandled upgrading the bench. They had things totally right at drafting Nate Wolters. Trading his rights and those of Arsalan Kaszemi (sp?) was a bad move. They really screwed up offering the BAE for Maynor.

I think the fallacy in thought was the Wizards overestimating worth of veteran status versus them clearly evaluating and predicting future success of unproven talent.

The way they waived Kendall Marshall shows how closed and fixed their thinking is. That guy is every bit the playmaker Maynor is. But since they spent all available cap money on Maynor they had nothing but to look bad with Marshall possibly outplaying Maynor.

What Washington might have done after trading for Rice Jr. that IMO would have shown real faith in their scouting is sign Lorenzo Brown. I will double check but I think Lo Brown went undrafted. Brown at NC St played a bit like John Wall. Very fast, athletic, and a distributor with the ability to score; I would much prefer taking a shot on a potentially good rookie. OKC did that and have Reggie Jackson. If not Wolters I believe Lo Brown would have been good.

PS -- My access to a functional computer is limited at the moment. Lots of probs researching and being sure when posting that my facts totally right. I THINK Brown went undrafted. Sorry if I am wrong. Regardless, paying for Maynor as the Wizards did IMO was very wrong.


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[payitforward]

Welcome back, CCJ -- missed you there for a couple of days! Glad u are back....

[Rafael122]

At the rate they are going, this entire team will be gassed by January. If it were up to me, I would rest Nene on back to backs. Similar to what the Heat are doing with Wade, keep him fresh.

Other than that, I have no idea what else Wittman can do unless Ernie decides to trade Singleton or Booker for a combo guard for the bench.

[noworriesinmd]

I'm really liking what I'm seeing with Wall. Every home game I've been to, he is starting to look like one of the best players on the court...hands down.

Maynor is hot garbage.
He can't defend (does not know how to play a pick and roll). Too many times...he just could not get past the screener...he is really bad.
He kills our offensive flow. He walks up court, passes the ball to someone close and does not move or do anything after that. He is just really bad. When he is on the court...it is like 4 vs 5.


I really really really really like Webster and Ariza. They are unselfish and just play good basketball.

I like Gortat a lot, even though he was abused last night. I felt so bad for him because he was just was humiliated too many times to count. I hope it was just fatigue.

I never used the words hot garbage for Ves...I always rooted for him. I hope we can keep him. He is improving and the more I see of him...the more I think his issues were based on his lack of confidence. He is just a fireball of energy...that is the type of player I will always root for.

There was a great stretch in the 2nd quarter, where the Wizards played inspired ball. The ball kept on moving. It was one play where everyone touched the ball. Nene in the post and the ball swung around the key. I was great to watch. I hope this is not a one time thing...but something they really work on.

The team looks like they are gelling nicely. They will never blow out teams...just because their bench is so bad.

[dobrojim]

the reason Mack was able to do something is because Maynor was
incapable of pressuring him. Mack is vulnerable to defensively quick
guys..has a lot of trouble getting into anything when begin pressured.
Maynor is not the guy that can do that. That's one place Price was clearly
better than Maynor.

Good game by Wall, easily best player on the court, 26 pts on 18 shots,
12 assists with 4:1 a:to ratio, 6 boards and 5 steals. That's all NBA territory
right there.

Clutch FTs by Ariza when the the game was kinda in doubt.

Our starters rock. Our bench stinks. Nothing new there.

With the east this bad we could conceivably end up in the 4-6 seed
range assuming no catastrophic injuries. The only teams we have no
chance at all of finishing ahead of are IND and MIA.

[queridiculo]

Think about what Webster ariza nene and gortat have done for us since joining the team over the past yr- as much as we love to hate on Ernie he deserves a little credit for those guys.

No, no and no.

Heading into the 2014-15 offseason, Ernie Grunfeld has turned salary cap space, a 6th, 17th and 23rd first round pick, countless 2nd round picks, and possibly a 2014 first round draft selection into.... NOTHING!

The Wizards will have $41.5 million committed to 6 players that don't form a starting five, and include a useless PG with a $2 million player option.

I'm sorry if I'm not blown away by the Wizards 8-9 record in a historically bad Eastern conference, featuring a starting unit that's likely going to be among league leaders in games lost due to injury.

This team should be much further ahead at this point of the "rebuild" and Grunfeld is the main reason why it isn't.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Payitforward, thanks for your kind words. I have really been struggling with some things, health and family related. My computer and a phone line are down. Instead of spending the day in the ER I am posting. (Feel sorta likeI did when I had pneumonia). Guess I should not be criticizing EG or the Wizards.

dobrojim's good observation encourages me: The Wizards' starters really do rock. Seems to me a trade or even a D-League call up might help. As things are, I see things as good for as long as Nene stays reasonably healthy.

It's better to have good starters than nobody who can play. Webster and Ariza can play for anyone. Nene and Gortat are two big men with skills. Wall and Beal are a good backcourt that should be getting better the next three to five years. This is all good stuff.



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[wizardry]

Think about what Webster ariza nene and gortat have done for us since joining the team over the past yr- as much as we love to hate on Ernie he deserves a little credit for those guys.

No, no and no.

Heading into the 2014-15 offseason, Ernie Grunfeld has turned salary cap space, a 6th, 17th and 23rd first round pick, countless 2nd round picks, and possibly a 2014 first round draft selection into.... NOTHING!

The Wizards will have $41.5 million committed to 6 players that don't form a starting five, and include a useless PG with a $2 million player option.

I'm sorry if I'm not blown away by the Wizards 8-9 record in a historically bad Eastern conference, featuring a starting unit that's likely going to be among league leaders in games lost due to injury.

This team should much further ahead at this point of the "rebuild" and Grunfeld is the main reason why it isn't.

You must be spoiled by the 30 games below .500 years

[payitforward]

Think about what Webster ariza nene and gortat have done for us since joining the team over the past yr- as much as we love to hate on Ernie he deserves a little credit for those guys.

Those guys didn't join us over the last year. Nene has not been a bargain, and Gortat is an expensive rental.

Webster = "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while."

[DCZards]

Those guys didn't join us over the last year. Nene has not been a bargain, and Gortat is an expensive rental.

Webster = "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while."

Gortat may be an expensive rental or he may resign at the right price and be a long-term contributor. That verdict is still out. And say what you want about the signing of Webster, he's a better player and better bargain than Landry Fields, the player you wanted the Zards to sign.

[TGW]

And say what you want about the signing of Webster, he's a better player and better bargain than Landry Fields, the player you wanted the Zards to sign.

Ouch...got that one. Landry Fields has been an abject failure for Toronto.

[hands11]

Those guys didn't join us over the last year. Nene has not been a bargain, and Gortat is an expensive rental.

Webster = "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while."

Gortat may be an expensive rental or he may resign at the right price and be a long-term contributor. That verdict is still out. And say what you want about the signing of Webster, he's a better player and better bargain than Landry Fields, the player you wanted the Zards to sign.

You forget DCZ

Nothing is until it is. The team is not good until it is turned into wins. And once it is turned into win, it isn't good because the wins aren't real win because the conference is weak or the players that people never wanted aren't signed long enough. Or they might get injured. Or because we didn't pick one of 50 player one of us or most of us felt they should have picked. And if we do have them signed, we don't have enough cap space to dream about the players we could want coming up.

Yet some how, they are getting better. Wall is growing. So is Beal. Webster is legit and worth what we paid him. Gortat has helped a ton. Wall is now making amazing bounce passes I never saw him make before Gortat got here. And we still might keep him. Hell we might keep Trevor A and trade Otto. We don't know what they will do moving forward. We only know where they were and where they are now. And where they are now is a good team and getting better.

Where is Cleveland who drafted so much better then us.
Where is BRK and NY who spent a butt ton of money.

There are a handful of top level teams. Indy, Miami, OKC, SA. I'm not even counting Portland until they start knocking off teams on that list.

After that, you have a large group of playoff teams that won't beat any of those top 4 in a 7 game series.

After that you have the rest. Tankers. Blown projects like NY and BRK look to be. Team that are in stage one or stage two of rebuilding. Thats the league.

We are not in this first group. We are in the 2nd group that are the playoff worthy teams. There is no shame in that for a team that did a total rebuild that is going into the 4th year. Specially when you have some young rising stars and some cap space. And extra specially if they end up 3rd of 4th in the conference with home court in a playoff series they can win.