Bulls Might Now Be More Likely To Trade Luol Deng

[sco]

I would love to do a deal with Sacto if we could somehow land Isiah Thomas or with NJ and land Plumlee

[McBulls]

This article on Bulls blog sort of summarizes my view of Deng:
http://blogs.bulls.com/2013/11/where-would-the-bulls-have-been-without-luol-deng/

Luol Deng is one of the best players in Bulls franchise history. Deng is in the top 10 in franchise history in 10 major statistical categories and with this being his 10th season with the Bulls tied with Jerry Sloan and Tom Boerwinkle and behind only Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen in years with the franchise. He’s behind only Jordan and Sloan for consecutive seasons in the starting lineup.

Deng is one of 10 players in franchise history to be a multiple All-Star and one of a dozen to have been named to an all-defensive team. He’s the only Bulls player ever to have won the NBA’s sportsmanship award, a worldwide ambassador for the NBA.

Luol Deng never embarrasses you or your team. He’s the league’s resigning ironman, leading the league in minutes played the last two seasons and four of the last seven for the Bulls.

and,

There’s almost an entire season ahead and an Eastern Conference in which the Bulls should be competitive. It would help having a player who is fifth on the franchise list in points scored and field goals, sixth in three pointers, fifth in defensive rebounds and ninth overall in rebounds, fifth in steals, 10th in blocks, and should Deng finish the season with the Bulls third all time in games played behind only Jordan and Pippen, one of the great Bulls players of all time.

If the Bulls trade Deng for scraps, I'm pulling the plug on Comcast and selling my birthday family seats at United Center on Stubhub.

[sco]

This article on Bulls blog sort of summarizes my view of Deng:
http://blogs.bulls.com/2013/11/where-would-the-bulls-have-been-without-luol-deng/

Luol Deng is one of the best players in Bulls franchise history. Deng is in the top 10 in franchise history in 10 major statistical categories and with this being his 10th season with the Bulls tied with Jerry Sloan and Tom Boerwinkle and behind only Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen in years with the franchise. He’s behind only Jordan and Sloan for consecutive seasons in the starting lineup.

Deng is one of 10 players in franchise history to be a multiple All-Star and one of a dozen to have been named to an all-defensive team. He’s the only Bulls player ever to have won the NBA’s sportsmanship award, a worldwide ambassador for the NBA.

Luol Deng never embarrasses you or your team. He’s the league’s resigning ironman, leading the league in minutes played the last two seasons and four of the last seven for the Bulls.

and,

There’s almost an entire season ahead and an Eastern Conference in which the Bulls should be competitive. It would help having a player who is fifth on the franchise list in points scored and field goals, sixth in three pointers, fifth in defensive rebounds and ninth overall in rebounds, fifth in steals, 10th in blocks, and should Deng finish the season with the Bulls third all time in games played behind only Jordan and Pippen, one of the great Bulls players of all time.

If the Bulls trade Deng for scraps, I'm pulling the plug on Comcast and selling my birthday family seats at United Center on Stubhub.

Deng is a very good all-around player; however, for whatever reason, the Bulls have had such long bad runs over the years that they have had revolving doors on players. Guys like Deng and Hinrich are over-rated from a Bull's history perspective because we just haven't kept guys very long. I'd love to have Deng on the team for 3 or 4 more years, BUT not at even $10M per year, much less $13+. The opportunity cost is just too high in today's low cap world. That type of money should buy us a more consistent offensive threat.

[McBulls]

This article on Bulls blog sort of summarizes my view of Deng:
http://blogs.bulls.com/2013/11/where-would-the-bulls-have-been-without-luol-deng/

Luol Deng is one of the best players in Bulls franchise history. Deng is in the top 10 in franchise history in 10 major statistical categories and with this being his 10th season with the Bulls tied with Jerry Sloan and Tom Boerwinkle and behind only Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen in years with the franchise. He’s behind only Jordan and Sloan for consecutive seasons in the starting lineup.

Deng is one of 10 players in franchise history to be a multiple All-Star and one of a dozen to have been named to an all-defensive team. He’s the only Bulls player ever to have won the NBA’s sportsmanship award, a worldwide ambassador for the NBA.

Luol Deng never embarrasses you or your team. He’s the league’s resigning ironman, leading the league in minutes played the last two seasons and four of the last seven for the Bulls.

and,

There’s almost an entire season ahead and an Eastern Conference in which the Bulls should be competitive. It would help having a player who is fifth on the franchise list in points scored and field goals, sixth in three pointers, fifth in defensive rebounds and ninth overall in rebounds, fifth in steals, 10th in blocks, and should Deng finish the season with the Bulls third all time in games played behind only Jordan and Pippen, one of the great Bulls players of all time.

If the Bulls trade Deng for scraps, I'm pulling the plug on Comcast and selling my birthday family seats at United Center on Stubhub.

Deng is a very good all-around player; however, for whatever reason, the Bulls have had such long bad runs over the years that they have had revolving doors on players. Guys like Deng and Hinrich are over-rated from a Bull's history perspective because we just haven't kept guys very long. I'd love to have Deng on the team for 3 or 4 more years, BUT not at even $10M per year, much less $13+. The opportunity cost is just too high in today's low cap world. That type of money should buy us a more consistent offensive threat.

The difference between you and me is that you are worried about the owner's profits, and I choose not to care about whether they are making 30% ROI or 10%.

[step]

The difference between you and me is that you are worried about the owner's profits, and I choose not to care about whether they are making 30% ROI or 10%.

SCO doesn't come across as worried about the profits of the owners, but more the impact of signing Deng to a deal that isn't worthwhile for the team. We are hamstrung by the salary cap, which has limited our flexibility in making moves and adding another albatross contract for nostalgia / history sake isn't going to help the team move forward.

Sure it's in Deng's right to get as much as he can, but let's not paint him as victim in all of this. If the history really meant something to him, he'd be willing to entertain a hometown discount, to which so far he has not.

[kingkirk]

Right now, definitively, how many SFs in the league are clearly better than Deng?

I’ve got 4. James, Durant, George & Anthony.

After that, i don’t think any SF in this league is better than Lu.

All 4 of these guys a max level players. If Lu is asking for 14 and his market value is 12, then he is not being overpaid at all.

We underrate this guy so much on this board.

[League Circles]

Right now, definitively, how many SFs in the league are clearly better than Deng?

I’ve got 4. James, Durant, George & Anthony.

After that, i don’t think any SF in this league is better than Lu.

We underrate this guy so much on this board.

That sounds about right.

Deng is our best player right now. And he's not old. And he's a leader and hardworker. And he's healthy and asking for like 60-70% of a max deal. He's also versatile - able to play 2 or 3 positions when needed and play inside or out on both ends.

I'd love to resign him if he keeps playing like he is right now, and I'm fine paying big bucks for it. To me, Deng right now and even going into the future beyond this year is a textbook example of a player worth more to his own team than in trade.

I think despite some of the rumors we've heard, the most likely scenario for the team next year, IF Deng keeps playing at such a high level, is what the default was all along - amnesty Boozer, resign Deng and bring Mirotic with the MLE. Perhaps we'll have two picks in the top 20 with ours and the Charlotte pick, plus the BAE available and Rose back. Kirk could be resigned for like 2 million with bird rights:

PG: Rose, Kirk, Teague?
SG: Butler, Snell, draft pick
SF: Deng, MDJ
PF: Mirotic, Taj
C: Noah, draft pick, BAE

I think that's a contender.

[Rerisen]

Right now, definitively, how many SFs in the league are clearly better than Deng?

I’ve got 4. James, Durant, George & Anthony.

After that, i don’t think any SF in this league is better than Lu.

All 4 of these guys a max level players. If Lu is asking for 14 and his market value is 12, then he is not being overpaid at all.

We underrate this guy so much on this board.

He's not better than Iggy (17.2 PER, .656 TS%), and Iggy's contract would be ideal for us to offer Lu.

12.8 / 12.2 / 11.7 / 11.1

[d boy gentleman]

Right now, definitively, how many SFs in the league are clearly better than Deng?

I’ve got 4. James, Durant, George & Anthony.

After that, i don’t think any SF in this league is better than Lu.

We underrate this guy so much on this board.

That's because the despite the fact the front office has said otherwise, many posters desire the team to purposely lose games in in order to get a high draft pick. Quite frankly, I think that persons, while entitled to their opinion, that want losses in order to attain better draft position should honestly find another hobby. The players on this team aren't going to purposely lose games because they have some semblance of pride. Many want a 2 time All-Star gone because of his reported asking price and because they think he will be gone in free agency and, once again, to purposely lose games.

[League Circles]

He's not better than Iggy (17.2 PER, .656 TS%), and Iggy's contract would be ideal for us to offer Lu.

12.8 / 12.2 / 11.7 / 11.1

Ehh, I've always been an Iggy fan, and I'm not usually one to revert to stats based arguments that much, but I think it's worth pointing out that Iggy gets to play with a notably better offensive group, effectively decreasing his attempts and thus increasing his efficiency. Deng right now is averaging more points/36 than Iggy has in the last 6 seasons, and more rebounds than Iggy has ever averaged. Luol has better size and is younger. I'd take Luol over Iggy, and in turn I'd be willing to pay Deng more than Iggy gets.

I'll probably write this til I'm blue in the (fingers?), but I really think our trump card to get Luol signed to a reasonable deal will be to give him that 5th year that only we can. Surely I think he'd take a million less per year from us than from someone else in exchange for about 10 million more guaranteed over the course of the deal.

[kingkirk]

He's not better than Iggy (17.2 PER, .656 TS%), and Iggy's contract would be ideal for us to offer Lu.

12.8 / 12.2 / 11.7 / 11.1

I disagree. It is debatable who is better in terms of Iguodala or Deng but it can go either way quite easily.

Iguodala has the luxury of playing as a 4th option and is only putting in 12.9 points per. Yes, his TS right now is amazing but he won't maintain that.

Deng also has a higher PER on the season and has been forced away from being his natural 3rd option into being a 1st on the last 2 seasons.

Iggy got 4 yrs / 48 million. 12 million annually will be Deng's market value, and rightfully so.

[League Circles]

Deng also has a higher PER on the season and has been forced away from being his natural 3rd option into being a 1st on the last 2 seasons.

I'm not going to go dig up the numbers, but I think the concept of what defines a "#?" option to be interesting especially in regards to Deng. Do we consider the #1 option to be the player who shoots most frequently (most shot attempts per 36), the player who is most often the initial play call on a possession, or the player who most frequently takes the bail out, late shot clock, lower percentage shots?

Deng hasn't been #1 in either the first or second way I describe, but he has been in the third way IMO, and that has probably hurt his efficiency.

[The Force.]

Deng would be the ideal player for a team like OKC or Minnesota or New Orleans. Teams with at least two competent ball handlers/scorers already on the roster. The Bulls don't have this luxury which usually forces Deng into a secondary scoring role which is not at all where he needs to be.

Deng is a great player and certainly could contribute to a championship-level team, however, at present this Bulls team isn't constructed in a way that augments his skill-set.

[Rerisen]

He's not better than Iggy (17.2 PER, .656 TS%), and Iggy's contract would be ideal for us to offer Lu.

12.8 / 12.2 / 11.7 / 11.1

I disagree. It is debatable who is better in terms of Iguodala or Deng but it can go either way quite easily.

Iguodala has the luxury of playing as a 4th option and is only putting in 12.9 points per. Yes, his TS right now is amazing but he won't maintain that.

Deng also has a higher PER on the season and has been forced away from being his natural 3rd option into being a 1st on the last 2 seasons.

Iggy got 4 yrs / 48 million. 12 million annually will be Deng's market value, and rightfully so.

You said you disagreed, then just agreed!

I didn't say Iggy was better, just Deng wasn't either. Same level.

[Rerisen]

Ehh, I've always been an Iggy fan, and I'm not usually one to revert to stats based arguments that much, but I think it's worth pointing out that Iggy gets to play with a notably better offensive group, effectively decreasing his attempts and thus increasing his efficiency. Deng right now is averaging more points/36 than Iggy has in the last 6 seasons, and more rebounds than Iggy has ever averaged. Luol has better size and is younger. I'd take Luol over Iggy, and in turn I'd be willing to pay Deng more than Iggy gets.

You wouldn't give a contract based on 15 games. I'll be surprised if Deng finishes over 18 PER, and even if he does, it'd be a suspicious anomaly vs his last 5 years, where he hasn't cracked 17 once. Career stats favor Iggy (about 1 point PER higher) and as for offensively he put up just as good or better TS% than Deng while in Philly where he didn't have other top options (.560 TS% or better 3 times).

He's a little better man to man defender imo, and can get his own offense easier off the dribble. Because of that, a better playmaker (career 5.0 Assists to Deng's 2.5).

He can also play 2 or 3 I believe easier than Deng. His superior athleticism makes up for the size difference. Very hard argument to make Deng is better. Same level at best.

But just because Deng's true value might be around 12m, doesn't mean some other team won't give him 14m a year for into his 30s. If they do, no brainer for him to take it, but doubt he'd live up to it.

[kingkirk]

You said you disagreed, then just agreed!

I didn't say Iggy was better, just Deng wasn't either. Same level.

Yeah, my fault, i read your post as, "Iggy is better than Deng".

My agree / disagree comment was me 'disagreeing' with the notion that Iggy was definitely better but 'agreeing' that it was at least debatable in some sense.

Look, i'm on a diet and am carb depleted. My head isn't working prooperly. Don't judge me!

[Mech Engineer]

Luol can be an important piece on a contending team but he cannot be the second best offensive player. The second best offensive player should be able to score in multiple ways without depending on the PG to set him up always. It might be crazy but if Snell develops well and can be reliable...Snell, Mirotic and one of the draft picks from next year(Charlotte or Bulls) can be the ones who will support Rose offensively. Luol and Noah can be the fill in the blank kind of guys who have experience and can do other things at an elite level which others cannot consistently do for their positions(defense, slashing, rebounding) and hide their weaknesses. Those things help teams win in the playoffs.

But, redoing the same thing as this year or previous years should not be the norm. If Luol will fetch a high first round pick, the Bulls should go with that. Having possibly three picks in next year's draft is the ideal way to rebuild. There is a high probability than one of the picks will click. Deng would be a great fit on many teams. The fact that next year's FA is a diluted market helps the Bulls, IMO. Teams will probably pay more for Deng with the hope he can resign with them after playing with their team. Deng has more value now than what he had in 2010 when the Bulls could not dump him.

I still think Deng, Taj, Rose and Noah's weaknesses are highlighted because of Boozer not doing what was expected for his salary. These guys are trying to make up for Boozer's deficiencies on offense and support him on defense and stretching themselves for the last 3/4 years.

[League Circles]

Rerisen I agree they're on the same level. I'd take Deng over Iggy on the Bulls because he's younger, I think a little less reliant on athleticism which should decrease a bit for both of them, and because he's a long time Bull. There are plenty of teams I'd prefer Iggy on.

I personally don't really care what we pay Deng - it's more a binary thing than a scalar thing. I don't think paying him say 14 million next year vs 12 is going to change the team we put on the floor.

[nitetrain8603]

I'd take Parsons and Chandler over Deng. Probably Green right now as well. Kawhi IMO is better as well.

[dumbell78]

Iggy=Deng IMO, scale can be tipped one way or the other and the argument wouldnt be wrong. What we are seeing Iggy doing with GSW, is what Deng would look like with two wing scorers. They are both excellent 3rd option players. Deng is a better rebounder, Iggy is a better play maker, and both are solid on D.

Deng will easily get offers of 12/mil a year just like Iggy, and he deserves it like most have said. Would love to keep him, but our situation is so much more different than GSW. Stars arent aligned for us and Deng going forward. Trade is the right move from everything I see, sucks but that is it IMO.

Edit* I also expect Kawhi to creep up on the top SF list, I would consider him 5th best this year forward.