Joel Embiid

Draft talk all year round

Moderators: Duke4life831, Marcus

User avatar
Hendrix
RealGM
Posts: 17,030
And1: 3,662
Joined: May 30, 2007
Location: London, Ontario

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#61 » by Hendrix » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:25 am

sikma42 wrote:That pass by Embidd was big time. Showing a great mentality out there.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

The one where he passed to Ellis? I don't100% remember the specifics of that play, but remember thinking it was really nice off ball movement by Ellis to get into positiion to receive a pass after Embiid didn't really seem to have a plan with where he was going on that play. It was good eyes though to recognize/make the pass to Ellis though. Could be wrong though.

Overall he's looking pretty good out there.
oak2455 wrote:Do understand English???
B-Ball Freak
RealGM
Posts: 16,233
And1: 11,457
Joined: Jun 09, 2003
     

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#62 » by B-Ball Freak » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:35 am

He looks really tall on the court
CBB_Fan
Senior
Posts: 591
And1: 138
Joined: Jul 15, 2012

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#63 » by CBB_Fan » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:26 am

In KU's loss today against Villanova Embiid again had good production, but didn't see the court much. He got 10 points and five rebounds in 12 minutes, with a couple of nice post moves and a lob dunk. I think that from a skillset perspective he is far from raw, but the fouls were often mental mistakes.

When I get highlights from the Wake Forest and Villanova games I'll post some gifs. Didn't record the streams.
sikma42
Head Coach
Posts: 6,895
And1: 6,107
Joined: Nov 23, 2011

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#64 » by sikma42 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:22 pm

Hendrix wrote:
sikma42 wrote:That pass by Embidd was big time. Showing a great mentality out there.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

The one where he passed to Ellis? I don't100% remember the specifics of that play, but remember thinking it was really nice off ball movement by Ellis to get into positiion to receive a pass after Embiid didn't really seem to have a plan with where he was going on that play. It was good eyes though to recognize/make the pass to Ellis though. Could be wrong though.

Overall he's looking pretty good out there.


whether he had a plan isnt the issue. You don't always have a plan when you are in the post, you react. When you plan, you can become mechanical. The reaction, peripheral vision and coordination and touch on the for a 7 footer was big time. Most 7 footers can't make that close quarters big to big passes. Let me even take it further, most big men in general can't make those passes.

I'm starting to think Wiggins, as great as he is, isn't the best prospect on Kansas.
Big_C_KU
Junior
Posts: 460
And1: 106
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
       

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#65 » by Big_C_KU » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:30 pm

I've actually been thinking for a while that Embiid has the most potential in this class. Its sad as a KU fan to know that Wiggins and Embiid aren't going to even scratch the surface of their potential their one year at KU. I just hope both put enough together to help KU make it to the final four.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
thamadkant
Suns Forum Picker of Cherries
Posts: 16,918
And1: 8,604
Joined: Jan 06, 2007
 

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#66 » by thamadkant » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:41 pm

I am liking Embiid a lot.

He won't be Hakeem 2.0, Hakeem is as rare as Charles Barkley.... with his coordination, skill level, athleticism and overall genius of playing basketball.


But an athletic, agile version of Marc Gasol?

I mean if he can master a spin move down low and finish with left and right hand would make him crazy unguardable, without a double team. And if he is double teamed, spin move then dish out to a shooter or cutter would be as glorious.

I think it's important he lands to a team that WILL take their time developing him.
I would love the Suns to get him.
I mean Suns have Len, but they could use a twin tower setup as Len may be able to play PF part time.
Bubstubbler
Starter
Posts: 2,326
And1: 755
Joined: Jun 13, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#67 » by Bubstubbler » Sun Dec 1, 2013 3:18 am

1UPZ wrote:an athletic, agile version of Marc Gasol?

I like that comparison a lot and have used it as well. Embiid is more athletic, more agile, longer, and has higher top end potential, but there is definitely a similarity of style and intelligence. A better Gasol would be the best center in the league.

I expect Embiid to be a better offensive player than Gasol and a far better player defensively. Gasol is a good team defense guy but isn't a dominant force. Embiid has that extra potential. He had 7 blocks tonight in limited minutes and totally dominated the game at times on the defensive end.

While I love Gasol as a player, the comparison is a bit off in terms of caliber: Gasol is largely maxing out his talent as a fringe all-star to maybe 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA caliber player (though I would personally select him first ahead of Howard/Cousins/Hibbert/etc because I respect his game so much), whereas Embiid truly is a HOF caliber talent. He won't be a literal Hakeem 2.0 clone, but he is every bit the prospect that Hakeem was, maybe even better. He genuinely has the potential to rank among the GOAT centers to ever play. I am of the opinion that Hakeem was friggin' awesome. AWESOME!! Nevertheless, Embiid is one of the incredibly rare prospects who has a legit chance to reach Hakeem's caliber.

I continue to think he'll be the #1 overall pick this year and will end up being the best and most important player in this superstar-loaded class. Setting the foreign guys aside (including Exum), since I haven't watched them yet, here's how I'd rank the top domestic prospects:

1) Embiid

-- half step dropoff

2) Wiggins
3) Smart

-----full step dropoff

4) Parker

-----half step dropoff

5) Randle


Right now Embiid, Smart, and Wiggins rank quite a bit ahead of everyone else due to their potential to be dominant TWO-WAY players at the next level. In 5 years, all three may be the best defenders in the NBA at their positions...in addition to being truly elite offensive players as well. Parker might be elite offensively but will be pedestrian on defense (making him far less important/valuable than the top 3 guys); same with Randle, though it's even worse with him due to the problematic length issue.
Bubstubbler
Starter
Posts: 2,326
And1: 755
Joined: Jun 13, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#68 » by Bubstubbler » Sun Dec 1, 2013 3:23 am

BTW, Stan Van Gundy reported at the KU game tonight that an NBA talent scout had just told him he'd take Embiid #1 overall.

The Joel Embiid train: get on it.
User avatar
EddieJonesFan
Starter
Posts: 2,215
And1: 438
Joined: Apr 19, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#69 » by EddieJonesFan » Sun Dec 1, 2013 10:07 am

"The Joel Embiid train: get on it."

I'm already on that ****, and I don't think I'm coming off of it any time soon. The center position needs to make a comeback.
User avatar
vladimirj
Junior
Posts: 282
And1: 51
Joined: Mar 13, 2013

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#70 » by vladimirj » Sun Dec 1, 2013 10:34 am

I would love for Stan to coach Embiid, when you consider what he did to Dwight's game (much lesser prospect in my opinion, and not as good a mental make-up), commentating tonight you could sense his excitement every time he mentioned Embiid and all the good things he did. Match made in heaven.
Orlando Magic 2015 NBA Champions
donaldduck
Junior
Posts: 351
And1: 47
Joined: Aug 24, 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
 

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#71 » by donaldduck » Sun Dec 1, 2013 11:19 am

Sent from my ZTE V768 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Embiid is a once in generational player. Do I draft him in front of Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Gordon or Parker? Most likely not. Either way Embiid is a phenomenal center, Wiggins needs time (2-3 years), Randle has short arms and might be amazing timing towards who work with him, Smart is the best ready made pro right now. Exum will be brilliant. Beyond brilliant. A scorer wrapped into a point guard. Exum will destroy random draft pros as he gets his back right. Everyone defines. Cleveland is starting to run away from the basement. Does it matter if your a top 8 pick in Sucktown? Embiid is a top guy. Who needs a center? Boston seems like a nice play. It would allow Jelly & Kelly to focus on power forwards. If Boston doesn't fix the line up maybe he will embrace the rebuilding mode by giving up nothing besides youthful value.. Bring it Mo-Ched!!

PG- Rondo
SG- Bradley
SF- Green
PF- Sully
C- Embiid

That's nice eastern conference ness.

Boston! Let me know.
User avatar
boogie-reke
Head Coach
Posts: 6,919
And1: 244
Joined: Nov 05, 2010
   

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#72 » by boogie-reke » Sun Dec 1, 2013 2:54 pm

His per 40 numbers are

21 points, 16 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2.5 assists, 1.5 steals - shooting 67% from the field. Also 3.5 TOs and almost 8 fouls, which obviously is what keeps him from the floor so far.

Obviously early in the season and a really small sample size - but watching his all around contributions whenever he gets on the court is so impressive, considering his age and lack of experience.
Big_C_KU
Junior
Posts: 460
And1: 106
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
       

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#73 » by Big_C_KU » Sun Dec 1, 2013 4:57 pm

boogie-reke wrote:His per 40 numbers are

21 points, 16 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2.5 assists, 1.5 steals - shooting 67% from the field. Also 3.5 TOs and almost 8 fouls, which obviously is what keeps him from the floor so far.

Obviously early in the season and a really small sample size - but watching his all around contributions whenever he gets on the court is so impressive, considering his age and lack of experience.


The foul issue will have to improve but a lot of his fouls over the last 3 games weren't actually fouls. The new rules makes almost any contact, created by the defender or offensive player, a foul. Has had a few clean blocks called fouls because the refs anticipated contact. The scouts know watching the game and going back and watching film that they weren't fouls. The officiating is a, major problem in college basketball this year.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
MojoPharoah
Rookie
Posts: 1,135
And1: 362
Joined: Oct 14, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#74 » by MojoPharoah » Sun Dec 1, 2013 8:45 pm

Bubstubbler wrote:
Talent Chaser wrote:I can't believe you guys are seriously considering taking him over Randle, Wiggins, or Parker. The GM would get slammed if Embiid wasn't producing right away and those guys looked like all-stars early on, this would also shatter Embiid's confidence.


GM's don't draft based on who will have the best rookie season, they pick who they think will best help them win titles in the long run.

You want to see a GM get slammed, imagine one giving this interview late on draft night:

Reporter: "Some people thought Embiid would go #1. Tell us your reasoning for choosing player B instead."

GM with #1 pick: "Well, I think Embiid is going to be the better and more important player in the long run, but I decided to draft player B because I think player B will look better right away as a rookie."

Reporter: "You only won 20 games last year. Shouldn't you have drafted the player who you thought would be best in the long run?"

GM: "No, I felt it was more important to just focus on the near-term. I think player B will probably help us win more games next year than Embiid would have. With player B, I think we have a chance to get up around .500 and battle for the 8th seed."

Reporter: "But if you think Embiid will be better and more important, wouldn't Embiid give your team a better chance of winning titles in the long run?"

GM: "Of course. But like I said, my primary goal isn't winning titles, it's trying to maximize our win total in the near-term. I think player B will look like an all-star right away, so even though I think Embiid will be better down the road and would give our team better odds of winning titles down the road, I chose player B."

Reporter: "So you're not trying to maximize your odds of winning titles?"

GM: "Correct. That's a secondary concern."


Can you imagine that? I think media and fans would utterly destroy a GM for adhering to such reasoning. If a GM thinks Embiid is the player whose addition maximizes the odds of that franchise winning titles, then the GM is obligated to draft him. It's one thing to skip him if you don't think he'll maximize your odds of winning titles, but it's a bad move if you do think he'll maximize those odds and you skip him to get a lesser player because you think the lesser player will put up better rookie scoring stats.

Also, one of Embiid's strengths is his strong mind. He doesn't strike me at all as someone with a frail mind who would have his confidence destroyed if a fellow draftee started playing at an all-star level before he did. All the evidence points to the opposite: look at the great attitude he's displaying at Kansas this year. It's not destroying his confidence that Parker and Randle are getting more minutes and putting up bigger numbers this year in college, and I don't see any indication that his confidence would be destroyed if Parker and Randle put up bigger numbers as NBA rookies, either.


Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?
Bubstubbler
Starter
Posts: 2,326
And1: 755
Joined: Jun 13, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#75 » by Bubstubbler » Sun Dec 1, 2013 10:52 pm

Big_C_KU wrote:The foul issue will have to improve but a lot of his fouls over the last 3 games weren't actually fouls. The new rules makes almost any contact, created by the defender or offensive player, a foul. Has had a few clean blocks called fouls because the refs anticipated contact. The scouts know watching the game and going back and watching film that they weren't fouls. The officiating is a, major problem in college basketball this year.

This is a good point. The vast majority of Embiid's fouls to date have been what I write off as just "college fouls," so I don't think it will be much of a problem in the pros.
black bart
Rookie
Posts: 1,245
And1: 40
Joined: Mar 08, 2011

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#76 » by black bart » Mon Dec 2, 2013 2:37 am

7 ft with 7'5 wingspan. Those are enough to get him top 10. He is probably the most developed Cs in his freshmen year. More than adams, and Drummond and a better athlete than Noel. It is rare to see someone like Randle ahead of Embiid but by draft time athleticism will matter and that will probably put him ahead of randle.
User avatar
TheSuzerain
RealGM
Posts: 17,409
And1: 11,413
Joined: Mar 29, 2012

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#77 » by TheSuzerain » Mon Dec 2, 2013 6:09 am

Embiid's per 40 stats are in line with Frosh Oden.

Will be interesting if he can maintain that as his minutes rise.
noobcake
Banned User
Posts: 2,571
And1: 442
Joined: May 18, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#78 » by noobcake » Mon Dec 2, 2013 6:22 am

MojoPharoah wrote:
Bubstubbler wrote:
Talent Chaser wrote:I can't believe you guys are seriously considering taking him over Randle, Wiggins, or Parker. The GM would get slammed if Embiid wasn't producing right away and those guys looked like all-stars early on, this would also shatter Embiid's confidence.


GM's don't draft based on who will have the best rookie season, they pick who they think will best help them win titles in the long run.

You want to see a GM get slammed, imagine one giving this interview late on draft night:

Reporter: "Some people thought Embiid would go #1. Tell us your reasoning for choosing player B instead."

GM with #1 pick: "Well, I think Embiid is going to be the better and more important player in the long run, but I decided to draft player B because I think player B will look better right away as a rookie."

Reporter: "You only won 20 games last year. Shouldn't you have drafted the player who you thought would be best in the long run?"

GM: "No, I felt it was more important to just focus on the near-term. I think player B will probably help us win more games next year than Embiid would have. With player B, I think we have a chance to get up around .500 and battle for the 8th seed."

Reporter: "But if you think Embiid will be better and more important, wouldn't Embiid give your team a better chance of winning titles in the long run?"

GM: "Of course. But like I said, my primary goal isn't winning titles, it's trying to maximize our win total in the near-term. I think player B will look like an all-star right away, so even though I think Embiid will be better down the road and would give our team better odds of winning titles down the road, I chose player B."

Reporter: "So you're not trying to maximize your odds of winning titles?"

GM: "Correct. That's a secondary concern."


Can you imagine that? I think media and fans would utterly destroy a GM for adhering to such reasoning. If a GM thinks Embiid is the player whose addition maximizes the odds of that franchise winning titles, then the GM is obligated to draft him. It's one thing to skip him if you don't think he'll maximize your odds of winning titles, but it's a bad move if you do think he'll maximize those odds and you skip him to get a lesser player because you think the lesser player will put up better rookie scoring stats.

Also, one of Embiid's strengths is his strong mind. He doesn't strike me at all as someone with a frail mind who would have his confidence destroyed if a fellow draftee started playing at an all-star level before he did. All the evidence points to the opposite: look at the great attitude he's displaying at Kansas this year. It's not destroying his confidence that Parker and Randle are getting more minutes and putting up bigger numbers this year in college, and I don't see any indication that his confidence would be destroyed if Parker and Randle put up bigger numbers as NBA rookies, either.


Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?


Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.
User avatar
MojoPharoah
Rookie
Posts: 1,135
And1: 362
Joined: Oct 14, 2009

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#79 » by MojoPharoah » Mon Dec 2, 2013 9:26 am

noobcake wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Bubstubbler wrote:
GM's don't draft based on who will have the best rookie season, they pick who they think will best help them win titles in the long run.

You want to see a GM get slammed, imagine one giving this interview late on draft night:

Reporter: "Some people thought Embiid would go #1. Tell us your reasoning for choosing player B instead."

GM with #1 pick: "Well, I think Embiid is going to be the better and more important player in the long run, but I decided to draft player B because I think player B will look better right away as a rookie."

Reporter: "You only won 20 games last year. Shouldn't you have drafted the player who you thought would be best in the long run?"

GM: "No, I felt it was more important to just focus on the near-term. I think player B will probably help us win more games next year than Embiid would have. With player B, I think we have a chance to get up around .500 and battle for the 8th seed."

Reporter: "But if you think Embiid will be better and more important, wouldn't Embiid give your team a better chance of winning titles in the long run?"

GM: "Of course. But like I said, my primary goal isn't winning titles, it's trying to maximize our win total in the near-term. I think player B will look like an all-star right away, so even though I think Embiid will be better down the road and would give our team better odds of winning titles down the road, I chose player B."

Reporter: "So you're not trying to maximize your odds of winning titles?"

GM: "Correct. That's a secondary concern."


Can you imagine that? I think media and fans would utterly destroy a GM for adhering to such reasoning. If a GM thinks Embiid is the player whose addition maximizes the odds of that franchise winning titles, then the GM is obligated to draft him. It's one thing to skip him if you don't think he'll maximize your odds of winning titles, but it's a bad move if you do think he'll maximize those odds and you skip him to get a lesser player because you think the lesser player will put up better rookie scoring stats.

Also, one of Embiid's strengths is his strong mind. He doesn't strike me at all as someone with a frail mind who would have his confidence destroyed if a fellow draftee started playing at an all-star level before he did. All the evidence points to the opposite: look at the great attitude he's displaying at Kansas this year. It's not destroying his confidence that Parker and Randle are getting more minutes and putting up bigger numbers this year in college, and I don't see any indication that his confidence would be destroyed if Parker and Randle put up bigger numbers as NBA rookies, either.


Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?


Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.


Bennett is an athletic tweener who had potential offensively but questions defensively, w/o a true position, and his likely best position was already taken on the team. Noel is a dominant defensive player and potential offensive complementary piece (a la Tyson Chandler or Noah) who was a better fit and projected to be better. There was a reason why Noel was projected to go 1 for months before the draft, and the only questions were regarding health, not talent or ceiling.

Grant picked the guy he thought would help him best today, because they still had the LeBron pipe dream of creating a place with a bunch of young talent to tempt him with. It was a bad decision at the time, and grows worse by the day.
CablexDeadpool
Head Coach
Posts: 7,006
And1: 1,686
Joined: May 04, 2011

Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#80 » by CablexDeadpool » Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:45 am

nhh90 wrote:7 ft with 7'5 wingspan. Those are enough to get him top 10. He is probably the most developed Cs in his freshmen year. More than adams, and Drummond and a better athlete than Noel. It is rare to see someone like Randle ahead of Embiid but by draft time athleticism will matter and that will probably put him ahead of randle.


Embiid is not a better athlete than Noel are you crazy :lol:

Noel is like a 7 foot track athlete
ken6199 wrote:A Rocket's loss really brought out the best of people. It makes me realize this forum is filled with jobless scumbags with their only intention to come hate the team they hate and realize their anger from their life/job/wife/kids or whatever.


:lol:

Return to NBA Draft