Official 2014 Free Agency discussion

[Dr Aki]

there's no way kyrie is leaving guaranteed money on the table.

it only takes one freak injury to ruin a career and if kyrie is shoved 80 million dollars in his face, he's not hesitating to sign it for the allure of getting 9 mil one year and testing free agency a year after that.

that's simply an insane move turning down 80 mil when you're a 22yo.

[GeorgeDillion]

22 y.o. and has been injured every year the past 4 years including in college. I would be shocked if Kyrie passed up the money.

I'm also in the trade Nash brigade, he's a nice guy but he's not worth it at this point. That $9.7 M can be used on someone who can actually contribute 70+ games instead of looking nice in a suit.

[myersia]

I am starting to think that this off-season will not be used to get a max player unless his name is LeBron (pipedream not going happen). Which brings me to my next point. I honestly want to see us resign Wesley Johnson to something like 5 year 20 mill, J. Farmar 5 year 20 mill, and X. Henry 3 year 12 million. I still think we need to trade J. Hill. As much as I love him he is injury prone and his value is high right now. Pau I am not sure if we should resign him. Flexibility is key. If he took something like a 2 year 16 million contract I'd consider him. But that's unlikely. Nick Young has a player option and will likely opt in. Not sure how much salary we would have after that but 2015 is more promising as far as FA's.

Also want to see S. Williams signed at a low price. All these guys committed to our team for almost nothing.

[milesfides]

there's no way kyrie is leaving guaranteed money on the table.

it only takes one freak injury to ruin a career and if kyrie is shoved 80 million dollars in his face, he's not hesitating to sign it for the allure of getting 9 mil one year and testing free agency a year after that.

that's simply an insane move turning down 80 mil when you're a 22yo.

Not insane at all...just have to have confidence and the desire for more than long term security in cleveland. If you think you're among the best players in the league, and you're looking at 5 years in a small market in a losing environment, then I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

It's not "turning down 80m when you're a 22 yo." It's turning down 80m in Cleveland because you want double that money and quadruple the fame in Los Angeles and win championships because you believe you're the next Kobe Bryant. And of what I've seen of Kyrie, I believe that describes him.

[milesfides]

^In addition, I'm not saying it's likely. I'm just saying Kyrie is worth clearing cap space for.

This summer, Brandon Tierney from CBS Sports Radio tweeted the following:

-"I've heard from someone in the know... Kyrie Irving not long for Cleveland"
-"I 100% stand by my position regarding Kyrie Irving and the Cavs. If you follow me, you know I am not reckless when it comes to such items..."
-"I never deleted an Irving tweet. Actually, my producer tweeted out my statement, as did others. The quote is attributed to me, and I own it."

This obviously created a ton of chatter in Cleveland, and Kyrie Irving didn't exactly squash it:
"I wish I knew "someone in the know" for all my facts, maybe I would go into journalism as well!!"
"Rumors are rumors"

Not exactly squashing it, right? I mean, what else is he supposed to say, he's a Cav for two more seasons.

Anyways, I would roll the dice for Kyrie. I think it's a good risk to save the capspace for him. Don't get me wrong, I'd take Russell Westbrook who's also a free agent at the same time in a heartbeat, who would be re-united with Kevin Love, teammate/roommate/possible lover. Then again, Kyrie and Kevin Love are both in the Uncle Drew commercials, so they're homeboys too.

But Russ is in a winning environment with a great future and he hasn't shown any signs of being disgruntled, so I'm guessing Kyrie would be a more realistic target. But either one of those guys are championship caliber guards who can succeed Kobe - who have the right "DNA" in Kobe's words.

[leeprettyp]

Lol people whine and moan about Melo's defense.... So I'm pretty sure they haven't caught enough Cavs games these last 2 years to realize just how bad Kyrie is on that end of the court. At times its so obvious he doesnt even make a defensive effort

[milesfides]

Kyrie is playing like crap right now (by his own standards). Cleveland is a mess. I'll give him a pass. On the other hand, Melo is playing great statistically. The Knicks are a mess. But we've seen that story before, and that's the problem with Melo. Who's "whining and moaning about Melo's defense"? I'm whining and moaning about his age, contract, and his history as a coach killer (George Karl, D'Antoni), his rhythm-killing isos, and an interesting phenomenon of how his team plays better without him (Nuggets post Melo-trade, Linsanity). Carmelo-ball is loser ball, because he can't adjust his game to help his team win.

And no, Kyrie isn't a defensive stopper at PG, but who is? PG is the hardest position to guard because of all the picks, and the reality is that most quality point guards will get a shot off anybody one-on-one. In comparison, Kyrie's statistical opponent PER was about the same as Steve Blake's last year, and Steve Blake had Dwight Howard behind him. Chris Paul's early seasons with New Orleans? No better than Kyrie as far as individual opponent PER, and several of those years he had Tyson Chandler protecting the rim.

I'm not saying he's a great defender. He can definitely improve. He's not like Steve Nash, who had physical limitations to how well he could play defense. But even Steve Nash, who was always a step slow on defense, is undoubtedly one of the greatest PG's to ever live - and that's because of his offense. And the upside to Kyrie's game is ridiculous. He posted the 5th highest PER among point guards when he was nineteen, and 4th highest at twenty. He won rookie of the year, but more importantly he dominated the 2013 All-Star weekend. He was at times the best player on the court during the Olympics scrimmages.

This month has been a bad one for him, but that sometimes happens - especially when you have a bad coach (Mike Brown) and a poorly matched roster. We should know something about that.

Can't take Kyrie's defense out of context from these things. And the upside of Kyrie is, well, ridiculous. But I don't need to defend him here. He's going to be one of the greats - he already is.

But in Cleveland, it's the classic case of A-List player in a bad movie. It's going to be a disaster. Fortunately this helps us in landing him.

[LApwnd]

IF Nash would just retire already, it would greatly increase our cap and options.

Not true. Lebron's not coming, Melo would be a huge mistake...Nash's salary hold doesn't affect us unless we waive him and use the stretch provision - then it does affect us after 2015.

Nash salary doesn't have to mean Lebron, just look at this current team, middle tier talent can make a huge difference too

[Dr Aki]

i can't think of a single player who took the QO over signing a max deal

it is literally impossible what you're suggesting. noone leaves money like that.

ever.

kyrie leaving cleveland for LA literally has less than a snowball's chance in hell. i highly doubt kyrie being a big fish in a small pond isn't going to want to remain a big fish in a small pond.

(heck, dwight was a moderate sized fish in a big pond and decided the leave to be a big fish in a small pond)

[Ckay]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rNEMbUkmMI[/youtube]

[milesfides]

What do you expect him to say lol? Of course he's going to say he's going to stay to a little kid in a room full of kids. I already saw this video when it was first released, and I was actually struck more about his awkward response: "that's a great question. um...." which was more telling than his inevitable "no" - which is not only the only answer he could give in a room full of kids, but also true, since he's signed on for two more seasons. And of course, Lebron said all the same things - and more, because he promised to not stop until he brought a championship to cleveland - and then he left.

And regarding the likelihood of Kyrie leaving - like I said, I'm not saying it's going to happen. I have no idea. I'm just saying it's worth saving our cap space for him (and Westbrook) than burning it on Carmelo. And yes, there's historic precedence for taking the extension instead of the qualifying offer, but there are exceptions:

Michael Olowokandi, Ben Gordon, Stromile Swift, Raymond Felton, Nick Young, and Rasho Nesterovic among others.

Granted the Cavs are likely to give Kyrie max money, and the players above took the qualifying offer because they didn't get the money they wanted...but like I said, there's more to the equation than long-term security in Cleveland.

Anyway, I'm not the first person to say that there' s a chance of Kyrie leaving -and I don't mean posters on a forum or fans, I mean reporters who are wiling to put their name and credibility on the line. So I'm done arguing for this, it's stupid because I'm arguing this in the context of a larger plan, in no way am I saying Kyrie is going to be a Laker.

I'm simply saying young elite players on a "smaller" max contract are the ones to target, not Melo, or the other outlandish or not-good-enough players mentioned here.

My 2 cents, would love to hear some other strategies that get the Lakers back to championship contention.

[dockingsched]

would have been much better for you to just discuss the larger plan and leave the idea of kyrie irving foregoing a max contract for a much much later date. the plan is something i agree with, but when you keep insisting on attaching it to such a farfetched idea it loses almost all its credbility.

[Dr Aki]

none of those guys were offered remotely close to a max contract though

[milesfides]

would have been much better for you to just discuss the larger plan and leave the idea of kyrie irving foregoing a max contract for a much much later date. the plan is something i agree with, but when you keep insisting on attaching it to such a farfetched idea it loses almost all its credbility.

Well I'm not a reporter or a blogger. Just putting out ideas and names, rather than only ideas or only names. I'm arguing for a plan, and suggesting names. If people feel that my idea has no credibility because of the names I suggest, that's on them. That's the best I can do, maybe they have better names or better ideas. Players better than Kyrie or Love are either untouchable or too expensive for our capspace. Other players would not be any cheaper, just older or worse. But I'm arguing for the idea. The players are incidental.

A couple years ago here on realgm I suggested a One-Year Plan to rebuild.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1184025

To many of us, the writing was on the wall, the Lakers should have made preemptive moves (like Boston recently). During the 2011-12 season, Kobe's body clearly showed he was hurting (wrists, knee, ankle). I suggested he get surgery (he avoided surgery because of the recovery time) and rest his body for a season. The achilles injury obviously would never have happened. So there's that. I suggested tanking in the meantime (but our team doesn't value picks or know how to use them). I also suggested showcasing Bynum and Gasol...Bynum was gone and we got Dwight, but that was the wrong player: I suggested targeting Harden.

And back then I heard the same stuff about Harden that people are saying about Kyrie. I'm not saying we could have gotten Harden. But a lot of people either said he wasn't good enough, or he was unattainable. Same with Kyrie. But they were wrong about Harden. His talent is proven now - he's an all star now and the best 2-guard in the league. Second, Harden WAS attainable, if you people looked at the situation and anticipated the next move. And for the Lakers, knowing Houston was desperate for Dwight, and that Houston was able to land Harden, we probably would have been able to land Harden and send Dwight to Houston - both trades happened within 2 months...but the Lakers made a poor gamble on Dwight. They were caught up in the big-man big-name mentality, instead of best basketball player with a jr-max contract angle. So the Lakers got caught with a coach-killer with a bad back and no heart, all of which we already knew, rather than making a smarter move with a different set of risks: a guy who can control an offense and create his own shot and get to the line and shoot and do all the things that an elite guard can do. Who was critical to the Thunder, a potential big "three"...but one could anticipate that the Thunder would choose Ibaka as their third star, and send Harden packing. And that "unlikely" event happened - and shocked many people.

And maybe that's going to happen again, with Kyrie, or maybe some other young star who will suddenly be available, via free agency or trade. I've already acknowledged before that getting Kyrie isn't likely, but it's WORTH a shot, because if there's one budding superstar who would be an exception to the rule, I'd put my money on him, that's all. When you're in a tough situation like the Lakers are in for the next few years, you have to decide what kind of moves you're going to make, and what kind of risks to take. I think getting tied down with Melo is a huge mistake. I think filling our cap with mediocre players aren't going to make a contender. So we should just put ourselves in position to target the best risks. And to me, that's Kevin in 2015, and Kyrie (or Westbrook) in 2016. Maybe neither of them happens. Maybe none of these guys happen. But that's the positioning the Lakers should be making, in light of Kobe's new contract and our cap situation and the free agent market for the next few years.

But that's a good purpose of these forums...if we simply talked about what has the highest percentage of things happening, then Kobe (risky move for West) and Pau (lopsided deal that came from nowhere) would never be Lakers.

That's the thing, if we simply talked about the highest percentage moves, we'd only have overpaid players and/or older players and/or headcases on this team. Because we aren't getting the next superstars from the draft, and we aren't getting Lebron or Durant walking onto our team. What players are easy to get? The ones who aren't good enough. It's rarely easy to get great players, and you know the Lakers aren't going to be able to get them through the draft.

So we just accept mediocrity? Because it's very, very hard, especially under the new CBA, to get on top. Easier to stay on top, but hard to get on top, especially without so many first round picks.

If we're playing percentages, the Lakers will be, now and for the near future, not a very good team. We will be mediocre. Those are the percentages. But there's always surprises, there's always angles, there's always opportunities, and as backseat GM's, there's only one thing we can really do, which is to speculate on how to improve this roster. We can't teach Xavier to bend his knees at the free throw line. But we can argue about his trade value.

But you know, it's always easier being a critic

[milesfides]

And to be fair, I'm sticking with only free agency points here...

I don't think this is the only route to go. I would most definitely target Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik...because they don't interrupt our 2015 free agency, and both would play great (become trade values themselves) but also make other players look good (raise trade value of other players). Then we'll be in position to move these assets around to land a James Harden, a Pau Gasol. But that's the subject of another thread....

But for the same purpose...can't win a championship without great players.

[moonpie]

If you want a Pau like role player go after Spencer Hawes. I bet he'll ask for less than Pau will too.

[leeprettyp]

Their really trying to force Melo's hand out there in the NY

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1873437-metta-world-peace-kenyon-martin-reportedly-separated-after-heated-exchange

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened

Kenyon Martin and Metta World Peace got into a "heated" verbal argument during a Knicks workout prior to Sunday's game against the Pelicans, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

The two veteran forwards did not come to blows but the back and forth was described as "intense" by one source with knowledge of the dustup.

[chefy]

The moment we let go of Pau, will be the end of all our championship hopes. Book it!

You can't build a championship over night, especially when you have Kobe as your centerpiece, and more especially at this stage of his career. I'm cool with getting Melo, but not at the expense of Pau.

I feel like the biggest mistake the FO made in the last couple years was trading Odom, we underestimated his contributions to the team. He was our glue guy and gave versatility to our front-court during our championship runs. I really hope we don't do the same mistake with Gasol.

[myersia]

The moment we let go of Pau, will be the end of all our championship hopes. Book it!

You can't build a championship over night, especially when you have Kobe as your centerpiece, and more especially at this stage of his career. I'm cool with getting Melo, but not at the expense of Pau.

I feel like the biggest mistake the FO made in the last couple years was trading Odom, we underestimated his contributions to the team. He was our glue guy and gave versatility to our front-court during our championship runs. I really hope we don't do the same mistake with Gasol.

To be honest I'm not sure you can say this was their mistake as much as it was Stern's a**hole move. We had Chris Paul coming back who would likely have increased our chances to get a championship and would have brought a lot of chemistry and wins to the lakers. We traded Odom ultimately because he wanted out. He demanded it. I am not sure we could have held on to him longer. He might have went off the deep end sooner like he has now.

[myersia]

speaking of this grabbed an old link and saw that this was the potential trade:

Los Angeles Lakers: PG Chris Paul (from NO Hornets)

New Orleans Hornets: F Lamar Odom (from LA Lakers), SG Kevin Martin (from HOU Rockets), PF Luis Scola (from HOU Rockets), PG Goran Dragic (from HOU Rockets)

Houston Rockets: PF Pau Gasol (from LA Lakers)

We were rumored to trade Bynum for Dwight. But even if we didn't considering Bynum's 2011-12 season we would have been legit with Paul, Kobe, Barnes, Hill, Bynum. Wonder what our cap would have looked if that trade would have went through?