Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[relinquishy]

II was looking for potential trade partners for Nene, and it isn't easy to find one. The two teams I could see making the move, to try and get over the hump to win a championship, would be OKC and Houston. If we sign Monroe in the offseason, I think a Monroe/Gortat combo is preferable to Nene/Monroe, for age and health reasons. If we couldn't keep Gortat for salary reasons, what would you guys think about trading Nene to Houston for Asik? Asik obviously isn't the offensive player that Nene is, but he is younger, healthier, and a better defensive anchor.

Monroe/Gortat combo would be pretty meh defensively.

[PistonPride]

Piston fan inquiring thoughts about a trade based around Greg Monroe and Otto Porter. I think Porter would be a good fit if we move Smith to the 4 alongside Drummond, and I Washington covets Monroe. Is a deal based around those two players plausible? Could it push both teams further in the right direction?

[nate33]

Piston fan inquiring thoughts about a trade based around Greg Monroe and Otto Porter. I think Porter would be a good fit if we move Smith to the 4 alongside Drummond, and I Washington covets Monroe. Is a deal based around those two players plausible? Could it push both teams further in the right direction?

Yes. Such a deal would make real good sense for both teams. It would sure solve some front court depth problems in Washington and would give them a good young big to grow with Wall and Beal.

I'm going to move this to our Trade Thread though. That's the way we do things on this board.

[nate33]

If we structure things right, we could make that Porter for Monroe trade, and then still have enough luxtax room to resign Gortat at roughly $11M per and Ariza at $6M per. It would work best if we could arrange declining contracts for Gortat at Ariza so that their decrease would offset the increase of Webster, Beal and Wall so that we stay under the luxtax until Nene comes off the books.

Better yet, trade Nene for a youngish stretch four and cap relief. That type of deal would require a team with specific needs, and I don't think that team is out there this year unless it's some kind of 3-way with Houston involving Asik going to a 3rd team.

Maybe we wait until next year to deal Nene.

[GeeWiz]

Otto Porter for Greg Monroe straight up, and this trade would happen after Otto returns from his hip injury. No picks involved.

Which team doesn't do it, which team does do it? The salaries match up, and the fit for both teams makes much more sense.

Pistons get a true SF and move Smith to PF, while Greg Monroe is a building block of the future in Washington, as nate and PistonsPride said.

Thoughts?

[dangermouse]

Pistons would be looking for more. Monroe is a good big man, young and a known quantity at this point. Otto has not played a game and is injured.

[theboomking]

I don't really like it. We would be trading a player perceived to have a lot of offensive and defensive potential for essentially a one way offensive big. Secondarily, we would be making that trade knowing that we might be able to just keep Porter and sign Monroe outright.

[LyricalRico]

The thing is, Ariza is a damn near perfect fit on this roster. As a 3&D floor stretcher and ball hawk, he helps our half court offense and helps to start fast breaks for us. He's also pretty versatile, being able to fill in at SG and PF in a pinch. That helps us shuffle the lineup with relative ease to make up for injuries at other positions. Since Ariza is such a good fit, even if we trade him for equal talent, we might suffer because the new guy won't blend in so well.

But if he's not in the team's longterm plans (which seems to be the case based on the Porter pick) then getting something for him at the deadline could be better than letting him walk for nothing over the summer.

Unless the team is overwhelmed with the offer, I keep Ariza on board and just roll with it. Assuming full health, you can go with a bench of Maynor/Webster/Porter/Harrington/Vesely, enough scoring and enough defense that the level of play doesn't decrease dramatically.

I think at this point Singleton and Booker are the guys most likely to be traded. I would have put Vesely in there, but it seems as though he's carved a spot in the rotation. At this point if you package one of those guys for a second round pick, then I'd go for it.

It's Ernie's fault that we're in this predicament, but I hope he has the foresight to make another move. Wizards have a legit chance at a good seeding in a weak Eastern Conference, the roster just needs to be tweaked where we can get another scoring guard w/out giving up any of our top 7-8 players.

I guess you're right about Ariza, and I do think Ernie's going to make another move. I don't think it'll be for a 2nd round pick though. More like our expirings and a second for the best guard he can get. So we're basically looking for teams trying to drop a small contract or that have a surplus of guards and need bodies in the frontcourt.

Booker to Dallas for Wayne Ellington?
Booker+2nd to Minny for Alexey Shved?

Not sure what else might be out there.

[Rafael122]

But if he's not in the team's longterm plans (which seems to be the case based on the Porter pick) then getting something for him at the deadline could be better than letting him walk for nothing over the summer.

Unless the team is overwhelmed with the offer, I keep Ariza on board and just roll with it. Assuming full health, you can go with a bench of Maynor/Webster/Porter/Harrington/Vesely, enough scoring and enough defense that the level of play doesn't decrease dramatically.

I think at this point Singleton and Booker are the guys most likely to be traded. I would have put Vesely in there, but it seems as though he's carved a spot in the rotation. At this point if you package one of those guys for a second round pick, then I'd go for it.

It's Ernie's fault that we're in this predicament, but I hope he has the foresight to make another move. Wizards have a legit chance at a good seeding in a weak Eastern Conference, the roster just needs to be tweaked where we can get another scoring guard w/out giving up any of our top 7-8 players.

I guess you're right about Ariza, and I do think Ernie's going to make another move. I don't think it'll be for a 2nd round pick though. More like our expirings and a second for the best guard he can get. So we're basically looking for teams trying to drop a small contract or that have a surplus of guards and need bodies in the frontcourt.

Booker to Dallas for Wayne Ellington?
Booker+2nd to Minny for Alexey Shved?

Not sure what else might be out there.

Was exchanging tweets with Nivek last night and he likes Travis Outlaw, Vasquez and Thomas from Sacramento.

I like Jimmer and Patrick Patterson. Both guys are on expiring deals, Jimmer gives us an offensive punch off the bench and he's a combo guard to boot. Patterson gives us an extra big.

[fishercob]

Good Ariza discussion.

Keep in mind that David Aldridge reported that we had agreed to trade him to Clippers for Caron Butler's rotting corpse at last year's trade deadline, only to be rescued by Donald Sterling nixing the deal.

I have been a vocal proponent of trading Ariza, but have changed my mind. A big reason behind my thinking was given my confidence that we are going to re-up Gortat, we won't have all that much cap room. So I figured we just ought to trade Ariza for a good player and then use the MLE instead of the cap space.

Ariza is going to be attractive to two types of teams -- those that want to add him for deep playoff run, and those that want salary relief. Well, as has been pointed out, we have other expiring deals. We don't need Ariza to trade for a Channing Frye or Glen Davis or Amir Johnson (should we have the chance), as we have Singleton, Seraphin, Booker, and Vesely who all play less and are less important to the team. As for contenders, no one is going to give up a player that will be really helpful to us in order to add Ariza. Maybe someone has (and would give up) a decent pick for him. Time will bear that out.

It's aggressively optimistic (that's another way of saying foolishly unrealistic) to assume that Porter -- a rookie with obviously no NBA experience, coming off an injury -- is going to match Ariza's contributions at any point this year, let alone reasonably soon. So unless something really, really good comes along that makes us a much better team now and/or strengthens our asset base for the future, we ought to just hold on to Ariza.

Keep in mind, his Bird RIghts might have some value. Some takes that may want him probably won't have the cap space to sign him outright, so we could finagle a little value in JJ Redick type of S&T to a contender if it comes to that.

[LyricalRico]

Keep in mind, his Bird RIghts might have some value. Some takes that may want him probably won't have the cap space to sign him outright, so we could finagle a little value in JJ Redick type of S&T to a contender if it comes to that.

Excellent point.

[dckingsfan]

Otto Porter for Greg Monroe straight up, and this trade would happen after Otto returns from his hip injury. No picks involved.

Which team doesn't do it, which team does do it? The salaries match up, and the fit for both teams makes much more sense.

Pistons get a true SF and move Smith to PF, while Greg Monroe is a building block of the future in Washington, as nate and PistonsPride said.

Thoughts?

Did you see Drummond's game last night - geez

[nate33]

Pistons would be looking for more. Monroe is a good big man, young and a known quantity at this point. Otto has not played a game and is injured.

I'm not sure they'll get more. Monroe is about to cost a lot of money and he's having a relatively bad year thanks to the poor chemistry and spacing on his team. They may be unwilling to match a high offer this offseason and may be thinking that they're better off trading him now for value.

Porter is locked into a cheap rookie deal for 3 more years and fills a big hole on that roster.

[fishercob]

Houston's asking for two first round picks for Asik.

But they aren't going to get that and Asik hasn't been getting enough minutes to warrant holding him. We probably wouldn't even consider the move, as we are in 'make the playoffs now' mode. I still think it makes sense for Houston. You never know how long a championship window is.

I think Houston can do better.

The most plausible Nene trade would be to send him for OKC for Perkins plus incentive. The question is, what is fair incentive? I'd do it in a heartbeat if we got Adams, but they're probably thinking "future heavily protected 1st"

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

[nate33]

I don't really like it. We would be trading a player perceived to have a lot of offensive and defensive potential for essentially a one way offensive big. Secondarily, we would be making that trade knowing that we might be able to just keep Porter and sign Monroe outright.

We can't sign Monroe outright unless we first renounce Gortat and Ariza. By trading Porter for Monroe, we could conceivably keep both Gortat and Ariza with Bird Rights. This is a really good team:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Monroe/Nene
C Gortat/Nene

And it's a team that should remain good for a long time. Gortat probably has 4 good years left, and Monroe, Wall and Beal have at least 10 good years left. Nene comes off the books in time to resign Beal. All we really need is some smart late round picks and vet minimum acquisitions to fill out the end of the bench, particularly a backup PG and a stretch four.

[J-Ves]

I don't really like it. We would be trading a player perceived to have a lot of offensive and defensive potential for essentially a one way offensive big. Secondarily, we would be making that trade knowing that we might be able to just keep Porter and sign Monroe outright.

We can't sign Monroe outright unless we first renounce Gortat and Ariza. By trading Porter for Monroe, we could conceivably keep both Gortat and Ariza with Bird Rights. This is a really good team:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Monroe/Nene
C Gortat/Nene

And it's a team that should remain good for a long time. Gortat probably has 4 good years left, and Monroe, Wall and Beal have at least 10 good years left. Nene comes off the books in time to resign Beal. All we really need is some smart late round picks and vet minimum acquisitions to fill out the end of the bench, particularly a backup PG and a stretch four.

How close to the lux tax would we be assuming Gortat and Monroe started at 12 million and Ariza started at 6 million?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[nate33]

But they aren't going to get that and Asik hasn't been getting enough minutes to warrant holding him. We probably wouldn't even consider the move, as we are in 'make the playoffs now' mode. I still think it makes sense for Houston. You never know how long a championship window is.

I think Houston can do better.

The most plausible Nene trade would be to send him for OKC for Perkins plus incentive. The question is, what is fair incentive? I'd do it in a heartbeat if we got Adams, but they're probably thinking "future heavily protected 1st"

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

I'd be thrilled if they would do this. It certainly doesn't look like it'll happen in the immediate future though. Right now, Houston's asking price for Asik is sky high. Maybe it'll come down as the Trade Deadline nears.

The beauty of the deal is that it gives us an extra $5M in cap maneuverability this summer. We'd have roughly $24M in cap room (assuming everyone is renounced). We could retain one of Ariza or Gortat and still go after a max free agent.

[nate33]

This is a really good team:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Monroe/Nene
C Gortat/Nene

And it's a team that should remain good for a long time. Gortat probably has 4 good years left, and Monroe, Wall and Beal have at least 10 good years left. Nene comes off the books in time to resign Beal. All we really need is some smart late round picks and vet minimum acquisitions to fill out the end of the bench, particularly a backup PG and a stretch four.

How close to the lux tax would we be assuming Gortat and Monroe started at 12 million and Ariza started at 6 million?

Close. The payroll would be roughly $69M with just Wall, Maynor, Beal, Webster, Ariza, Nene, Monroe and Gortat. Add 4 minimum salary guys and we'd be right around $71-72M. The luxtax is $71M this year and will probably rise a couple of million next year.

We would want to structure the new contracts as flat or descending to offset the raises already baked into the contracts of Wall and Beal. In a year, Maynor comes off the books (and is replaced by a minimum salary vet) which saves $1.3M. The year after that, Nene comes off the books, saving $13M, but Beal will need a raise of about $5M and we will need to pay a decent third big to replace Nene.

[fishercob]

I think Houston can do better.

The most plausible Nene trade would be to send him for OKC for Perkins plus incentive. The question is, what is fair incentive? I'd do it in a heartbeat if we got Adams, but they're probably thinking "future heavily protected 1st"

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

I'd be thrilled if they would do this. It certainly doesn't look like it'll happen in the immediate future though. Right now, Houston's asking price for Asik is sky high. Maybe it'll come down as the Trade Deadline nears.

The beauty of the deal is that it gives us an extra $5M in cap maneuverability this summer. We'd have roughly $24M in cap room (assuming everyone is renounced). We could retain one of Ariza or Gortat and still go after a max free agent.

Or we could follow the Nene-Asik trade by trading Gortat to New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. New Orleans would have to seriously consider because they wont have cap space to sign a center this summer, so Gortat's Bird rIghts would be of significant value to them.

So then we'd have Asik and Anderson in the fold with $15M in cap space -- enough to bolster the bench and potentially extend Asik via Collison type deal and really set ourselves up well for the future.

Of course, Houston and New Orleans could just cut us out and make the long-suggested/rumored Asik/Anderson deal. But I think that you can make a credible argument that Nene is a better piece for Houston than Anderson because of his ability to play center. He'd be a great backup when Dwight is in foul trouble and they could punish teams inside with the two of them on the floor together.

[pancakes3]

I really like Nate's lineup but our most glaring hole - backup guard - still isn't being addressed. I suppose hypothetically we can fill it via the draft through someone like Aaron Craft or Shabazz Napier but I just don't trust EG enough to do that.

Likewise the back-up PF/C to replace Nene in 2016 (Poythress, Patric Young, UVa product Mike Tobey).

Do we fill up these vital yet backup (15mpg-ish) players through draft, trade, or sign?