Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[Ruzious]

I really like Nate's lineup but our most glaring hole - backup guard - still isn't being addressed. I suppose hypothetically we can fill it via the draft through someone like Aaron Craft or Shabazz Napier but I just don't trust EG enough to do that.

Likewise the back-up PF/C to replace Nene in 2016 (Poythress, Patric Young, UVa product Mike Tobey).

Do we fill up these vital yet backup (15mpg-ish) players through draft, trade, or sign?

Craft and Napier are both good choices that may be available in the 2nd round. Napier has always reminded me of Lou Williams.

It's always fun to identify an undervalued player who could fit on the team. I think Andrew Nicholson is a great example. Orlando's playing Big Baby over him, and when Toby Harris gets healthy, they're going to use him at PF - Afflalo and Harkless are the 3's - and Harris has been far more effective at the 4 than at the 3. Nicholson is a real good offensive player - and efficient at it - with a 59% TS% and 56% eFG - showing 3 point range. He's a pure stretch 4 - and has a 17.5 PER. Come to think of it, maybe they end up focusing on how good Nicholson is and decide to trade Harris - as they get frustrated with his inability to stay healthy. Harris is like a poor man's Melo, but is he dependable?

[LyricalRico]

Or we could follow the Nene-Asik trade by trading Gortat to New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. New Orleans would have to seriously consider because they wont have cap space to sign a center this summer, so Gortat's Bird rIghts would be of significant value to them.

My concern would be HOU and NO cutting us out and instead doing an Asik for Anderson swap straight up. I think a Porter+filler for Monroe scenario might actually have more of a shot (assuming Porter shows something).

[fishercob]

Or we could follow the Nene-Asik trade by trading Gortat to New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. New Orleans would have to seriously consider because they wont have cap space to sign a center this summer, so Gortat's Bird rIghts would be of significant value to them.

My concern would be HOU and NO cutting us out and instead doing an Asik for Anderson swap straight up. I think a Porter+filler for Monroe scenario might actually have more of a shot (assuming Porter shows something).

I'm not sold on Monroe, particularly at a max deal.

[nate33]

Or we could follow the Nene-Asik trade by trading Gortat to New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. New Orleans would have to seriously consider because they wont have cap space to sign a center this summer, so Gortat's Bird rIghts would be of significant value to them.

My concern would be HOU and NO cutting us out and instead doing an Asik for Anderson swap straight up. I think a Porter+filler for Monroe scenario might actually have more of a shot (assuming Porter shows something).

I'm not sold on Monroe, particularly at a max deal.

Yeah. It's a bit of a gamble. The bet is that he plays better on a team with a real PG and some floor spacing. He's also young enough to improve some more.

But I do fear that his ultimate upside is not that of a game changing big. I don't particularly care for the strategy of dumping Ariza and Gortat just to go after Monroe, for example, but if we can get Monroe while trading only Porter, I'd do it. Monroe + Gortat + a Ryan Anderson-ish stretch four would be a very nice core frontcourt.

[fishercob]

I think Houston can do better.

The most plausible Nene trade would be to send him for OKC for Perkins plus incentive. The question is, what is fair incentive? I'd do it in a heartbeat if we got Adams, but they're probably thinking "future heavily protected 1st"

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

I'd be thrilled if they would do this. It certainly doesn't look like it'll happen in the immediate future though. Right now, Houston's asking price for Asik is sky high. Maybe it'll come down as the Trade Deadline nears.

The beauty of the deal is that it gives us an extra $5M in cap maneuverability this summer. We'd have roughly $24M in cap room (assuming everyone is renounced). We could retain one of Ariza or Gortat and still go after a max free agent.

I think Houston would be happy with Nene now; their issue would be after next season when they'd have Howard, Harden and Nene on the books for a combined $50M and Parsons and Lin would both be free agents. Even if they find a cheap replacement for Lin, Parsons is going to cost a ton -- he's been locked in to such a massively below-market deal that he's going to sign for huge money somewhere. It may explain why Morey wants picks over players, as it presents the best shot of keeping their window open the longest. The issue is whether or not they are good enough to win a ring now.

[andog_22]

Gay, Amir Johnson, Gray, Augustine, Daye

For:

Nene, Ariza, Seraphin, Maynor, Singleton

[Dark Faze]

I can't trade Nene for anything other than a superstar.

Reason being his contract comes off the books in the best free agency class in quite some time. We have a seriously good shot of hauling in one of Love or Durant if we play our cards right.

[nate33]

Gay, Amir Johnson, Gray, Augustine, Daye

For:

Nene, Ariza, Seraphin, Maynor, Singleton

The Wizards have no interest whatsoever in Rudy Gay. This is a recording...

[Ruzious]

I think Houston can do better.

The most plausible Nene trade would be to send him for OKC for Perkins plus incentive. The question is, what is fair incentive? I'd do it in a heartbeat if we got Adams, but they're probably thinking "future heavily protected 1st"

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

I'd be thrilled if they would do this. It certainly doesn't look like it'll happen in the immediate future though. Right now, Houston's asking price for Asik is sky high. Maybe it'll come down as the Trade Deadline nears.

The beauty of the deal is that it gives us an extra $5M in cap maneuverability this summer. We'd have roughly $24M in cap room (assuming everyone is renounced). We could retain one of Ariza or Gortat and still go after a max free agent.

Interesting. Yeah, Gortat and Asik aren't big holds on the cap. Asik is set at 8.4 mil for next season, and Gortat is a 7.7 mil hold. Lots of flexibility.

[Dat2U]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

[verbal8]

I realize Morey is tons smarter than I am, but I wonder how much better than Nene Houston can do for Asik. Nene would be a simply fabulous fit there. He can give them 25-28 mpg at PF and backing up C. They are are good enough that many nights they could keep his minutes even lower and save him for the playoffs. He'd be a 4th or 5th option on offense; they could run the second unit offense through him or with a Lin/Nene pick and roll. He's unselfish, he defends, etc.

It's a little unwieldy on our end because Asik and Gortat don't fit together. But I think Asik is good enough (and Nene is old and unreliable enough) that it's worth figuring out after the fact.

I'd be thrilled if they would do this. It certainly doesn't look like it'll happen in the immediate future though. Right now, Houston's asking price for Asik is sky high. Maybe it'll come down as the Trade Deadline nears.

The beauty of the deal is that it gives us an extra $5M in cap maneuverability this summer. We'd have roughly $24M in cap room (assuming everyone is renounced). We could retain one of Ariza or Gortat and still go after a max free agent.

Interesting. Yeah, Gortat and Asik aren't big holds on the cap. Asik is set at 8.4 mil for next season, and Gortat is a 7.7 mil hold. Lots of flexibility.

They would be holds for 150% of their salary, so they would have to be renounced(or conditionally renounced) to sign max or near-max free agents.

[fishercob]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

[Zonkerbl]

My god, for the first time ever I'm interested in the trade thread. Without going back fifty pages, if Porter, Webster, and Ariza are all performing well, would we be able to cash in one of those assets for a decent backup PG and a backup big?

I think the trick here is to start with the assets you have and the ones you need and go from there. I know that's bad economics -- you should just get the highest possible value, but I think since we're talking about trading redundant talent for bench help you can afford to sacrifice a little value for fit.

[Dat2U]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

Asik. He's already under contract. He's younger. He's a solid defender. Similar to Okafor last yr (but younger) and and reminds me alot of Haywood (who was rock solid in his prime). Gortat isn't a bad player tho and offensively, he's better for Wall, especially in P&Rs. My main issue with Gortat however is his impending free agency and the possibility he's going to be highly overpaid as he enters the later stages of his career.

[Zonkerbl]

Nate, I don't like your bland assurance that we can somehow pickup a backup PG through the draft or free agency. That's what we've been trying to do since we drafted Wall and up until now all efforts have failed. I think you need to cash in one of our significant assets for a backup PG.

Or bring Sato over...

[Zonkerbl]

Don't assume bigs will continue to get overpaid in free agency. The new CBA is explicitly designed to shrink FA contracts, and this year is when the penalties designed to do that start to bite.

[nate33]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

I'd take Asik. If we could trade Gortat straight up for Asik right now, I'd pull the trigger. Asik is 2 years younger and an elite defender/rebounder which I think is best to pair with Wall because he'll start fast breaks. Also, with Asik, we'd have more flexibility to play small at the PF position because Asik can take care of the rebounding by himself. That means we could put 3 shooters around Wall and open up the paint.

[Rafael122]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

I'd take Asik. If we could trade Gortat straight up for Asik right now, I'd pull the trigger. Asik is 2 years younger and an elite defender/rebounder which I think is best to pair with Wall because he'll start fast breaks. Also, with Asik, we'd have more flexibility to play small at the PF position because Asik can take care of the rebounding by himself. That means we could put 3 shooters around Wall and open up the paint.

While I get that, Asik is a self check on the offensive side of the ball. We'd be playing 4 on 5. Gortat and Nene seem to complement each other well, both guys can produce down low and both have a decent mid-range game.

[fishercob]

If we trade for Asik then say goodbye to Gortat at season's end. Both are starting Cs. Both clearly view themselves as starting Cs. Both can only play C. Keeping Gortat & Asik is completely unrealistic.

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

Asik. He's already under contract. He's younger. He's a solid defender. Similar to Okafor last yr (but younger) and and reminds me alot of Haywood (who was rock solid in his prime). Gortat isn't a bad player tho and offensively, he's better for Wall, especially in P&Rs. My main issue with Gortat however is his impending free agency and the possibility he's going to be highly overpaid as he enters the later stages of his career.

Devil's advocate:

Gortat is a significantly better offensive player -- Asik can't shoot free throws and turns it over a ton. Plus, while he's under contract it's only for a year and then he too will command a ton of cash in free agency, when he's 29.

[nate33]

Given age, contract status, etc, who would you rather have?

I'd take Asik. If we could trade Gortat straight up for Asik right now, I'd pull the trigger. Asik is 2 years younger and an elite defender/rebounder which I think is best to pair with Wall because he'll start fast breaks. Also, with Asik, we'd have more flexibility to play small at the PF position because Asik can take care of the rebounding by himself. That means we could put 3 shooters around Wall and open up the paint.

While I get that, Asik is a self check on the offensive side of the ball. We'd be playing 4 on 5. Gortat and Nene seem to complement each other well, both guys can produce down low and both have a decent mid-range game.

I think you can play 4 on 5 on offense. It's easy to hide one bad offensive player as long as he is a good pick-setter and offensive rebounder. Also, Asik is not Vesely. He can finish near the basket with contact and he isn't afraid of the ball. Also, the defense still has to account for him because he's such a force on the offensive glass. Asik averaged 12.2 points per 36 minutes with Houston last year. That's about what Okafor has averaged over the last 4 seasons.