Freakonomics: Losing is not a Winning Strategy

[Makaveli92]

I dont even care about this season tbh, lol. I did want to win the game tonight tho, we deserved that win. i honestly dont know how this season will go, or what type of record we'll have at the end. I wanna see what the FO do with this roster. that's all.

[fleet]

The mods are some of the biggest trolls in this forum (no offense, mods). Do you see some of the topics they start?

[IvgenyIAS]

The 2003 draft is often used to describe the quality of the upcoming draft but even if the comparison was valid, we'd still need a top-5 pick to get a franchise quality player and even then it's not a given (Milicic).

Here are the lottery picks outside the top-5 in the 2003 draft: Chris Kaman (6), Kirk Hinrich (7), TJ Ford (8), Mike Sqweetney (9), Jarvis Hayes (10), Mickael Pietrus (11), Nick Collison (12), Marcus Banks (13), Luke Ridnour (14), Reese Gaines (15). Half of those guys aren't even the league now and the best player of the bunch is either Kirk or Kaman, not exactly a second option on a championship caliber team. Ironically, the best player outside the top-5 in that draft was David West who went 18th.

Looking at team records right now, even if the Bulls finished the season with just 25 wins there would still be 5 worse teams. The Bulls have 66 more games to play, 40 of which against eastern conference teams and 35 against eastern conference teams not including Miami and Indiana (bear in mind, none of these teams, including us, has a winning record). Even if we just win half of these 35 games and lose all the remaining 31 games, we'd still finish with around 25 wins and will likely to still need some lottery luck to get a top-5 pick (considering the current team records).

[Hokie]

The 2003 draft is often used to describe the quality of the upcoming draft but even if the comparison was valid, we'd still need a top-5 pick to get a franchise quality player and even then it's not a given (Milicic).

Paul George, Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash all say hi.

And yes, I realize our chances at landing a stud player greatly increases the higher the pick.

[Payt10]

^^ T-Mac was the 9th overall pick back in the day.

[Seccci]

bulls are 4 games out of being the worst team in the whole league. worst team is milawaukee and bulls play them twice in few games. if they lose both, yeah, we going for the top 5 pick. trade deng on 15th and there it is.

[IvgenyIAS]

The 2003 draft is often used to describe the quality of the upcoming draft but even if the comparison was valid, we'd still need a top-5 pick to get a franchise quality player and even then it's not a given (Milicic).

Paul George, Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash all say hi.

I've checked but it seems none of them were part of the 2003 draft class which was the draft I was referring to. In fact, your post actually makes a good argument for not tanking seeing that 2 of those guys went outside the lottery and the other 2 were mid-late lottery picks.

[Hokie]

Paul George, Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash all say hi.

I've checked but it seems none of them were part of the 2003 draft class which was the draft I was referring to. In fact, your post actually makes a good argument for not tanking seeing that 2 of those guys went outside the lottery and the other 2 were mid-late lottery picks.

Why are we only allowed to look at lottery picks beyond the top 5 in the 2003 draft class? I simply pointed out that plenty of good players go after the top 5 in a given year. You original post, to me, insinuated that they don't.

And you can twist my post however you'd like, but the Bulls have nothing to gain by finishing 41-41, getting the 5th seed, and not having a prayer at getting past Miami or Indiana. In a year where we have absolutely no chance at winning a championship, tanking would be much more beneficial to the long-term prospects of this franchise than having yet another playoff exit. If I'm wrong, feel free to explain how.

[IvgenyIAS]

Paul George, Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash all say hi.

I've checked but it seems none of them were part of the 2003 draft class which was the draft I was referring to. In fact, your post actually makes a good argument for not tanking seeing that 2 of those guys went outside the lottery and the other 2 were mid-late lottery picks.

Why are we only allowed to look at lottery picks beyond the top 5 in the 2003 draft class? I simply pointed out that plenty of good players go after the top 5 in a given year. You original post, to me, insinuated that they don't.

And you can twist my post however you'd like, but the Bulls have nothing to gain by finishing 41-41, getting the 5th seed, and not having a prayer at getting past Miami or Indiana. In a year where we have absolutely no chance at winning a championship, tanking would be much more beneficial to the long-term prospects of this franchise than having yet another playoff exit. If I'm wrong, feel free to explain how.

Twisting? How am I twisting it? You're saying that great players can be had not only outside the top-5 picks but also outside the lottery (Nash) and even late in first round (Parker). If that's the case, why even bother tanking?

[Hokie]

I've checked but it seems none of them were part of the 2003 draft class which was the draft I was referring to. In fact, your post actually makes a good argument for not tanking seeing that 2 of those guys went outside the lottery and the other 2 were mid-late lottery picks.

Why are we only allowed to look at lottery picks beyond the top 5 in the 2003 draft class? I simply pointed out that plenty of good players go after the top 5 in a given year. You original post, to me, insinuated that they don't.

And you can twist my post however you'd like, but the Bulls have nothing to gain by finishing 41-41, getting the 5th seed, and not having a prayer at getting past Miami or Indiana. In a year where we have absolutely no chance at winning a championship, tanking would be much more beneficial to the long-term prospects of this franchise than having yet another playoff exit. If I'm wrong, feel free to explain how.

Twisting? How am I twisting it? You're saying that great players can be had not only outside the top-5 picks but also outside the lottery (Nash) and even late in first round (Parker). If that's the case, why even bother tanking?

Because having a higher pick gives you a higher probability of landing a great player. This isn't rocket science.

You used the 2003 draft to illustrate that we need to land a top 5 pick to have a chance at landing a great player, and I simply pointed out that great players sometimes go after the top 5. I also acknowledged that our chances at landing a great player increase as the number of ping pong balls increase as well.

No need to make more out of it than what it is.

[donaldtrump_00]

Inb4 mods lock this thread because they lock every thread

BUT, only 1 team can win a year, but tanking and getting that superstar (if the pick pans out) at least gives you a chance at contending for a title eventually. Ya Lebron never won in Cleveland, but he was a title contender every year. It wasnt like the Hawks who every one knew would get a 4-6 seed and be out by the 2nd round at best.

that don't even make sense. im defending u. why do ppl come on here and say LeBron never won with the cavs like they was suppose to off of one good player coming out the draft to them? that's dumb logic. the cavs were a true lottery team. they had nobody barely when they got bron. how does that translate into the bulls not doing anything when they already have rose noah butler taj ect. that's much different from the cavs in 03. if the bulls add a LeBron type player on this team they are similar to the current Miami heat team

[Eduardo]

As a bulls mod,all these ppl that want the bulls to lose arent they trollers? why don't you guys ban them? You keep on locking threads from everything,but that u let go

Becasue its not trolling at all. The tankers want the team to have the maximum level of talent possible, and we feel that's only possible through the draft at this point. This front office has failed to get it done through trades and signings.

I disagree and this is pissing off a lot of ppl not just me ..Look at the Post game thread,why is that acceptable?

got a problem with my post game thread breh?

[TheGOATRises007]

Do people not realize that we still have Derrick Rose? As long as he can come back and be somewhat close to his former MVP self this team will not suck for a long time. Not to mention the kid Mirotic will be another talented young player coming over next year as well. He's essentially a top 10 draft talent. I don't get this notion that tanking is somehow a bad strategy for this team. Name me a better alternative?

I don't get why people are thinking Rose is done.

He'll come back FINE imo.

[Andi Obst]

Everybody around here seems to be sure that Mirotic comes over next year. I mean, it's not like he's on a bad team now (one of the best teams in the Euroleague) and it's not like they would like to see him leave.

Did I miss something? Did he actually say he's coming over?

[pduh01]

Do people not realize that we still have Derrick Rose? As long as he can come back and be somewhat close to his former MVP self this team will not suck for a long time. Not to mention the kid Mirotic will be another talented young player coming over next year as well. He's essentially a top 10 draft talent. I don't get this notion that tanking is somehow a bad strategy for this team. Name me a better alternative?

I don't get why people are thinking Rose is done.

He'll come back FINE imo.

People are thinking the worst case scenario and I don't blame them.

And no I am not one of those people who think Rose is done but his health is a concern at this point in the near future. Rather we add another star, or whatever if Rose can't stay healthy the next couple years, or so we are screw in a sense.

[kingkirk]

I have a feeling we end up with a tweener like Aaron Gordon.

We're not getting one of the 4 studs at the top, and after that, i'm not convinced any of the other guys are 1st or 2nd option type talents.

The top end talent of this draft has potential superstar written all over it, but after that, i think you're more likely to find a Luol Deng level talent than a Paul George.

By the time that kid develops into a legitimate player, Rose will be 29.

[ryan44]

Do people not realize that we still have Derrick Rose? As long as he can come back and be somewhat close to his former MVP self this team will not suck for a long time. Not to mention the kid Mirotic will be another talented young player coming over next year as well. He's essentially a top 10 draft talent. I don't get this notion that tanking is somehow a bad strategy for this team. Name me a better alternative?

I don't get why people are thinking Rose is done.

He'll come back FINE imo.

I don't think Rose is "done" by any stretch. I also don't think he's going to be the MVP caliber player he was prior to both injuries. If he returns to top-5, top-10 player in the NBA form, fantastic. Until I see it though, I'm operating on the assumption that that scenario is really wishful thinking.

[DRose4MVP]

I have a feeling we end up with a tweener like Aaron Gordon.

We're not getting one of the 4 studs at the top, and after that, i'm not convinced any of the other guys are 1st or 2nd option type talents.

The top end talent of this draft has potential superstar written all over it, but after that, i think you're more likely to find a Luol Deng level talent than a Paul George.

By the time that kid develops into a legitimate player, Rose will be 29.

I'll gladly tank for Aaron Gordon. He's got so much upside.

When Rose is 29 will he really be 29 in basketball years? It sounds silly, but with Rose missing the last 2 to 2.5 seasons he does not have as many miles on his legs as most guys his age. Now you do have to take in account his knee problems too. Just something that came to mind.

[kingkirk]

I'll gladly tank for Aaron Gordon. He's got so much upside.

When Rose is 29 will he really be 29 in basketball years? It sounds silly, but with Rose missing the last 2 to 2.5 seasons he does not have as many miles on his legs as most guys his age. Now you do have to take in account his knee problems too. Just something that came to mind.

He does, but what position will he be in this league?

[gstephanopulos]

Everybody around here seems to be sure that Mirotic comes over next year. I mean, it's not like he's on a bad team now (one of the best teams in the Euroleague) and it's not like they would like to see him leave.

Did I miss something? Did he actually say he's coming over?

I remeber Chicago Bulls Rumors twetts that Mirotic is getting ready to get in the NBA next year and Real Madrid is considering signing Jan Vesley to replace him. It seems like Mirotic really wants to be a Bull next year.

I have a feeling we end up with a tweener like Aaron Gordon.

We're not getting one of the 4 studs at the top, and after that, i'm not convinced any of the other guys are 1st or 2nd option type talents.

The top end talent of this draft has potential superstar written all over it, but after that, i think you're more likely to find a Luol Deng level talent than a Paul George.

By the time that kid develops into a legitimate player, Rose will be 29.

I'll gladly tank for Aaron Gordon. He's got so much upside.

When Rose is 29 will he really be 29 in basketball years? It sounds silly, but with Rose missing the last 2 to 2.5 seasons he does not have as many miles on his legs as most guys his age. Now you do have to take in account his knee problems too. Just something that came to mind.

I don't like Gordon as much as you do. For me this draft is all about 6 players: Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Randle, Smart, Exum. I would rather get Gary Harris or Glenn Robinson III than Gordon. nbadraft.net have Gordon as a 20th pick and he might end up somewhere in the middle 1st round I think.