Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[fishercob]

But what about Ilyasova for Porter?

We talked about Ilyasova for our draft pick during the draft (and most felt Milwaukee needed to send back their mid round pick), but now that we know we have a great pair of SF's on the roster, what about revisiting this idea?

The actual trade would be Porter + Seraphin + Maynor for Ilyasova.

I don't know if it's attractive enough a package for the Bucks. Also, ideally we'd lift one of Wolters or Ridnour. I'd be inclined to add 2015 + cash into the trade bundle just to make it worth their while.

Wall/Wolters
Beal/Webster
Ariza/Webster
Ilyasova/Nene
Gortat/2014 pick (McGary/Embiid)

is a tight 8 man rotation.

How about we give them back Rice, and they give us back Wolters and their rights to Kazemi (the guy they took w/ the pick we threw in to get Rice)? Do you think they'd do that?

And if not, what does that tell you about our GM's ability to pick players and make trades?

And why, pray tell, are we at all certain that WOlters will turn out to be the better player than Rice based on the sample size to date?

[nate33]

But what about Ilyasova for Porter?

We talked about Ilyasova for our draft pick during the draft (and most felt Milwaukee needed to send back their mid round pick), but now that we know we have a great pair of SF's on the roster, what about revisiting this idea?

The actual trade would be Porter + Seraphin + Maynor for Ilyasova.

I don't know if it's attractive enough a package for the Bucks. Also, ideally we'd lift one of Wolters or Ridnour. I'd be inclined to add 2015 + cash into the trade bundle just to make it worth their while.

Wall/Wolters
Beal/Webster
Ariza/Webster
Ilyasova/Nene
Gortat/2014 pick (McGary/Embiid)

is a tight 8 man rotation.

I just ran the numbers. If we signed Gortat to a $12M a year deal, and Ariza to a $6M a year deal, we'd be comfortably under the luxtax. Our payroll would be at about $63.5M next year with the Core 7 plus Rice and a 2nd round pick. We could actually make Gortat and Ariza have descending contracts which would raise our initial payroll to about $65M but give us more breathing room (and better trading chips) down the line.

The point is, even after the deal, we'd have enough cap room to sign a competent combo guard, or maybe we try and trade Booker/Singleton's expiring contracts for one right now. I'd rather go with a veteran free agent than give up assets for a guy like Wolters. We can also see what is available with our 2nd round pick.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it's pretty unlikely that we will have that 2014 1st round pick.

[fishercob]

That's why I think if we can get a rotation quality player who is signed through just next year (Frye, Bass, Big Baby) for expiring flotsam (Seraphin, Singleton, etc), we'll be best positioned. We'll still be able to add more via the MLE as well.

Exactly, getting a guy who's got another year (or even two) on his deal doesn't really hurt us at this point. That's why I think there are still opportunities to improve the bench this season, maybe even while keeping Ariza.

Someone on the general board suggested we go after Bass, I responded that I thought it would be a good idea to get him if it meant we had no shot at getting Monroe. Thinking about it now, it makes a ton of sense. I'm souring on Monroe, I think he's going to be overpaid. Trade Booker + Seraphin + Singleton for Bass + 2015 2nd round pick (they have no 2nd rounder this year)

Only problem is that's close to 50 million in committed salary w/out including Gortat. You re-sign him, and you're basically a few million short of the luxury tax and have to fill in 3-4 roster spots.

You'd only need to include two guys to make it work, not 3 -- Booker + Seraphin works.

The luxury tax should be around $72M. You should have plenty of room to sign Gortat and add depth with the MLE -- either splitting it or using it on one impact guy.

[Rafael122]

Exactly, getting a guy who's got another year (or even two) on his deal doesn't really hurt us at this point. That's why I think there are still opportunities to improve the bench this season, maybe even while keeping Ariza.

Someone on the general board suggested we go after Bass, I responded that I thought it would be a good idea to get him if it meant we had no shot at getting Monroe. Thinking about it now, it makes a ton of sense. I'm souring on Monroe, I think he's going to be overpaid. Trade Booker + Seraphin + Singleton for Bass + 2015 2nd round pick (they have no 2nd rounder this year)

Only problem is that's close to 50 million in committed salary w/out including Gortat. You re-sign him, and you're basically a few million short of the luxury tax and have to fill in 3-4 roster spots.

You'd only need to include two guys to make it work, not 3 -- Booker + Seraphin works.

The luxury tax should be around $72M. You should have plenty of room to sign Gortat and add depth with the MLE -- either splitting it or using it on one impact guy.

If I'm not mistaken, you can't have cap space + the MLE.

There is a MLE for about $2.7 million but that's it.

PG - Wall/Maynor
SG - Beal
SF - Webster/Porter
PF - Nene/Bass
C - Gortat

Still need a shooting guard and a back up center, and probably a backup point guard.

[nate33]

Absolutely not. Our two most important players are 23 and 20. Ariza is 28. Porter is 20. Porter graded out as a top 5 pick in YODA. He was Big East POY. STylistically he's an excellent fit with Wall and Beal. He'll be able to grow with them.

There's not enough upside on that type of all-in move. Ilyasova, whom I like, isn't good enough, nor is Ariza to punt on Porter before he's played a game.

Come on, man.

I still see Porter as a quality role player at best, which is exactly what Ilyasova is. And we won't even get to the "quality" part until he has 2 or 3 years under his belt. Why spend all that time grooming a player who is (probably) only going to pan out to be a capable starter when we can trade for that capable starter right now? It's not like Ilyasova is over the hill. He is 26 and should have 5 or 6 good years left.

I really don't think Porter is all that much to get excited about. It's not like we won't be able to find a player of that caliber in free agency in 4 years when it's time to jettison Webster, Ilyasova, Ariza and Gortat and reboot a new lineup around Wall and Beal.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing we lose in this deal is that in Porter's 3rd and 4th year, he's likely to be a good value player because he'll be a young vet still on his rookie deal. But as far as on-the-court talent, I consider it less than a 50/50 chance that he'll be better than Ilyasova.

[fishercob]

Someone on the general board suggested we go after Bass, I responded that I thought it would be a good idea to get him if it meant we had no shot at getting Monroe. Thinking about it now, it makes a ton of sense. I'm souring on Monroe, I think he's going to be overpaid. Trade Booker + Seraphin + Singleton for Bass + 2015 2nd round pick (they have no 2nd rounder this year)

Only problem is that's close to 50 million in committed salary w/out including Gortat. You re-sign him, and you're basically a few million short of the luxury tax and have to fill in 3-4 roster spots.

You'd only need to include two guys to make it work, not 3 -- Booker + Seraphin works.

The luxury tax should be around $72M. You should have plenty of room to sign Gortat and add depth with the MLE -- either splitting it or using it on one impact guy.

If I'm not mistaken, you can't have cap space + the MLE.

There is a MLE for about $2.7 million but that's it.

I may be mistaken here, but my thinking is that by having Bass and re-signing Gortat (and thus opting to use the MLE instead of the marginal cap space) you'd be able to use the full MLE (starting at $5.1M).

[Rafael122]

You'd only need to include two guys to make it work, not 3 -- Booker + Seraphin works.

The luxury tax should be around $72M. You should have plenty of room to sign Gortat and add depth with the MLE -- either splitting it or using it on one impact guy.

If I'm not mistaken, you can't have cap space + the MLE.

There is a MLE for about $2.7 million but that's it.

I may be mistaken here, but my thinking is that by having Bass and re-signing Gortat (and thus opting to use the MLE instead of the marginal cap space) you'd be able to use the full MLE (starting at $5.1M).

I'm not sure either but if the cap is at $60 million, you're $10 million under to begin with, and almost all of that will go to Gortat (I highly doubt he signs for the MLE, he will get paid).

After that you're left with the lower level exception, and half of the MLE.

[Ruzious]

Going back to our recent talk about Ariza for Ilyasova, the more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense for Milwaukee. Ariza wouldn't stay there so they'd essentially be giving Ilyasova away for cap room.

But what about Ilyasova for Porter?

We talked about Ilyasova for our draft pick during the draft (and most felt Milwaukee needed to send back their mid round pick), but now that we know we have a great pair of SF's on the roster, what about revisiting this idea?

The actual trade would be Porter + Seraphin + Maynor for Ilyasova. It gives Milwaukee a young player to build with while improving their tank. It gives us the stretch four that we need without hurting our existing chemistry whatsoever. And we even dump Maynor, which helps keep us out of the luxtax this year and next year.

Basically, it's an "all in" move. We rely on resigning Gortat and Ariza and we enjoy good basketball for the next several years. We'd have a perfectly balanced lineup with everyone except Beal and Nene in their prime. That team should win 50 games a year for a while, even if they're not really a serious threat to knock out Indy or Miami. It's a better core than the Arenas/Jamison group.

Yeah, we'd really have to be sure that Ariza and Gortat re-sign in order to make a move like that. And we'd have to wait till the offseason to be sure - though if Milwaukee drafts a 3 or if their rookie from Greece looks good as a 3, they likely won't have an interest in Porter.

[fishercob]

If I'm not mistaken, you can't have cap space + the MLE.

There is a MLE for about $2.7 million but that's it.

I may be mistaken here, but my thinking is that by having Bass and re-signing Gortat (and thus opting to use the MLE instead of the marginal cap space) you'd be able to use the full MLE (starting at $5.1M).

I'm not sure either but if the cap is at $60 million, you're $10 million under to begin with, and almost all of that will go to Gortat (I highly doubt he signs for the MLE, he will get paid).

After that you're left with the lower level exception, and half of the MLE.

nate, Kev, etc -- little help on this?

Can't we re-sign Gortat using Bird Rights, effectively "renounce" our cap space and use the full MLE instead? This assumes we have added another player via trade before this year's deadline -- in this example, Brandon Bass for Booker/Seraphin.

[jivelikenice]

Sorry Nate but thats a terrible idea. Taking out my disdain for Ilyasova as a trade target in general, you take on more money and trade Otto at a low point in his value. Why? Neither player would start here in the immediate future and one player cuts sizeably into our cap space for a "role player" in your own words...

Ernie was blasted here for not taking a chance in free agency two years ago and seeing what they can do. Now as a franchise we're in a much better position in terms of being a free agent destination and ppl want no part of FA again.

[fishercob]

Absolutely not. Our two most important players are 23 and 20. Ariza is 28. Porter is 20. Porter graded out as a top 5 pick in YODA. He was Big East POY. STylistically he's an excellent fit with Wall and Beal. He'll be able to grow with them.

There's not enough upside on that type of all-in move. Ilyasova, whom I like, isn't good enough, nor is Ariza to punt on Porter before he's played a game.

Come on, man.

I still see Porter as a quality role player at best, which is exactly what Ilyasova is. And we won't even get to the "quality" part until he has 2 or 3 years under his belt. Why spend all that time grooming a player who is (probably) only going to pan out to be a capable starter when we can trade for that capable starter right now? It's not like Ilyasova is over the hill. He is 26 and should have 5 or 6 good years left.

I really don't think Porter is all that much to get excited about. It's not like we won't be able to find a player of that caliber in free agency in 4 years when it's time to jettison Webster, Ilyasova, Ariza and Gortat and reboot a new lineup around Wall and Beal.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing we lose in this deal is that in Porter's 3rd and 4th year, he's likely to be a good value player because he'll be a young vet still on his rookie deal. But as far as on-the-court talent, I consider it less than a 50/50 chance that he'll be better than Ilyasova.

I think it's way to early to decide what Porter will or won't be. Paul Pierce went 10th, so did Paul George. Both drastically exceeded popular expectations of them. So did Russell Westbrook and James Harden and Roy Hibbert, etc. For all we know in a year's time we'll be talking about Porter as a more central piece than Beal. He's good enough that you at least want to see what he can do on the floor, for sure.

[nate33]

I may be mistaken here, but my thinking is that by having Bass and re-signing Gortat (and thus opting to use the MLE instead of the marginal cap space) you'd be able to use the full MLE (starting at $5.1M).

I'm not sure either but if the cap is at $60 million, you're $10 million under to begin with, and almost all of that will go to Gortat (I highly doubt he signs for the MLE, he will get paid).

After that you're left with the lower level exception, and half of the MLE.

nate, Kev, etc -- little help on this?

Can't we re-sign Gortat using Bird Rights, effectively "renounce" our cap space and use the full MLE instead? This assumes we have added another player via trade before this year's deadline -- in this example, Brandon Bass for Booker/Seraphin.

fishercob has it right. There's no reason that we can't resign Gortat (and Ariza) with Bird Rights and then go use the MLE. Well, there is one reason: the luxtax. But we should have some breathing room before we bump up against it.

[Ruzious]

Sorry Nate but thats a terrible idea. Taking out my disdain for Ilyasova as a trade target in general, you take on more money and trade Otto at a low point in his value. Why? Neither player would start here in the immediate future and one player cuts sizeably into our cap space for a "role player" in your own words...

Ernie was blasted here for not taking a chance in free agency two years ago and seeing what they can do. Now as a franchise we're in a much better position in terms of being a free agent destination and ppl want no part of FA again.

I wouldn't assume that Porter's trade value will increase. And Ilyasova is a good player who fills a NEED and fits well.

[nate33]

Going back to our recent talk about Ariza for Ilyasova, the more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense for Milwaukee. Ariza wouldn't stay there so they'd essentially be giving Ilyasova away for cap room.

But what about Ilyasova for Porter?

We talked about Ilyasova for our draft pick during the draft (and most felt Milwaukee needed to send back their mid round pick), but now that we know we have a great pair of SF's on the roster, what about revisiting this idea?

The actual trade would be Porter + Seraphin + Maynor for Ilyasova. It gives Milwaukee a young player to build with while improving their tank. It gives us the stretch four that we need without hurting our existing chemistry whatsoever. And we even dump Maynor, which helps keep us out of the luxtax this year and next year.

Basically, it's an "all in" move. We rely on resigning Gortat and Ariza and we enjoy good basketball for the next several years. We'd have a perfectly balanced lineup with everyone except Beal and Nene in their prime. That team should win 50 games a year for a while, even if they're not really a serious threat to knock out Indy or Miami. It's a better core than the Arenas/Jamison group.

Yeah, we'd really have to be sure that Ariza and Gortat re-sign in order to make a move like that. And we'd have to wait till the offseason to be sure - though if Milwaukee drafts a 3 or if their rookie from Greece looks good as a 3, they likely won't have an interest in Porter.

Good point, Ruzious. Perhaps this deal would make a lot more sense this summer. It would also allay fishercob's concerns that Porter might be better than advertised. We'll get a better sense of Porter's ultimate upside after seeing him play for 50 games.

[fishercob]

I'm not opposed to trading anyone in the right deal. I know there was a lot of consternation when we moved stilldropin20, but we got hands out of the deal. So, you know....

But maybe it does indeed make sense to trade Otto this summer -- but maybe it's in a deal for someone better than Ilyasova, or a draft pick, or both.

But if including Porter is our only way to get Ilyasova now, I wouldn't go for it. There are cheaper ways to get rotation help -- even if they're not as good as Ersan.

[jivelikenice]

Sorry Nate but thats a terrible idea. Taking out my disdain for Ilyasova as a trade target in general, you take on more money and trade Otto at a low point in his value. Why? Neither player would start here in the immediate future and one player cuts sizeably into our cap space for a "role player" in your own words...

Ernie was blasted here for not taking a chance in free agency two years ago and seeing what they can do. Now as a franchise we're in a much better position in terms of being a free agent destination and ppl want no part of FA again.

I wouldn't assume that Porter's trade value will increase. And Ilyasova is a good player who fills a NEED and fits well.

We're not close enough to contending to worry about tying up cap room for a NEED. Ilyasova is a last piece type of move for a contender. We're not there yet. Jumping the gun.

[Rafael122]

I'm not sure either but if the cap is at $60 million, you're $10 million under to begin with, and almost all of that will go to Gortat (I highly doubt he signs for the MLE, he will get paid).

After that you're left with the lower level exception, and half of the MLE.

nate, Kev, etc -- little help on this?

Can't we re-sign Gortat using Bird Rights, effectively "renounce" our cap space and use the full MLE instead? This assumes we have added another player via trade before this year's deadline -- in this example, Brandon Bass for Booker/Seraphin.

fishercob has it right. There's no reason that we can't resign Gortat (and Ariza) with Bird Rights and then go use the MLE. Well, there is one reason: the luxtax. But we should have some breathing room before we bump up against it.

Would you do this if there was a remote chance at getting KD in 2016?

[Ruzious]

Sorry Nate but thats a terrible idea. Taking out my disdain for Ilyasova as a trade target in general, you take on more money and trade Otto at a low point in his value. Why? Neither player would start here in the immediate future and one player cuts sizeably into our cap space for a "role player" in your own words...

Ernie was blasted here for not taking a chance in free agency two years ago and seeing what they can do. Now as a franchise we're in a much better position in terms of being a free agent destination and ppl want no part of FA again.

I wouldn't assume that Porter's trade value will increase. And Ilyasova is a good player who fills a NEED and fits well.

We're not close enough to contending to worry about tying up cap room for a NEED. Ilyasova is a last piece type of move for a contender. We're not there yet. Jumping the gun.

Unfortunately, it's as close as we're going to get.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

We can probably pull Varajao and Jack from Cleveland if they continue to struggle...

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6368747

[dckingsfan]

Basically all the trade ideas - at this given point and time with the club at .500 = is to pilfer an NBA ready player to add to our current 6 NBA ready players. In general, there is no reason for this to happen but EG should continue to try - with the caveat that he doesn't want to kill our cap space for next year.

Not an easy position...

I think there's an inherent flaw in this line of thinking. I believe we are extremely likely to re-sign Gortat -- I do not think the front office would have traded a pick for him if they didn't want to keep him or believe that they could.

So once Gortat gets re-signed, there's likely not that much cap room -- probably hardly more than the MLE.

That's why I think if we can get a rotation quality player who is signed through just next year (Frye, Bass, Big Baby) for expiring flotsam (Seraphin, Singleton, etc), we'll be best positioned. We'll still be able to add more via the MLE as well.

Solid point (opinion switched) ... sounds like you agree with not trading the 6 players that are NBA ready unless we receive more NBA ready players in return.