MVP discussion thread

[kingkirk]

Really?

The guy that leads the Heat in points, rebounds and assist and you say that's team ball?

Thanks to Michael Beasley and Lebron...Wade can sit some games because he really isn't needed for scoring on the perimeter.

Chris Bosh minutes each year goes to a career low.

Without Lebron, the Heat doesn't 14-3 because he's playing 35 mins a game and nobody is playing his minutes.

Team Ball is Spurs. Team Ball isn't somebody putting in 30 Per and 35 mins a game and leading the team in Points, Rebounds and Assist for another year.

Posts like this annoy me to a degree because it means i actually have to support and back up the Heat here.

Watch them play. Last season and this season, their ball movement has been unbelievable.

They're in such good rhythm and everyone understands their role perfectly. Props to the players for buying but respect for Spo as well for instilling such a system and confidence in the guys.

Who care's if James leads them in points, assists & rebounds?

That's what multitalented players who are freaks and have a dominant all round game do, 35 minutes or not.

If James was playing 30 minutes, he would still be leading the Heat in most statistical categories.

[CablexDeadpool]

Posts like this annoy me to a degree because it means i actually have to support and back up the Heat here.

Watch them play. Last season and this season, their ball movement has been unbelievable.

They're in such good rhythm and everyone understands their role perfectly. Props to the players for buying but respect for Spo as well for instilling such a system and confidence in the guys.

Who care's if James leads them in points, assists & rebounds?

That's what multitalented players who are freaks and have a dominant all round game do, 35 minutes or not.

If James was playing 30 minutes, he would still be leading the Heat in most statistical categories.

If Lebron was playing 30 mins a game, and averaging 21 6 and 5 instead of 35.5 mins and averaging 26 6 6...people would have a point saying they play team ball...but they don't.

They play Lebron dominated ball. Lebron does near about everything, he's also the best 3 point shooter.

If Lebron doesn't go off, the Heat doesn't go off.

The Spurs got 8 players playing at least 20 mins a game, then they have a player playing 16 mins. Nobody on that team averages 20 points a game. The closest is Tony Parker with 18 points. All of their winshares are at 1.8. All of their PERs are at 18.

Lebron's winshare is at 4.1 and leads the league and nobody is close on his team, closest is 1.7. Lebron's Per is at 30, the closest is Wade who skips games and is at 21. Then Bosh has 19 who only plays 28 mins a game.

This Detroit game, really proves why Lebron is a central part to the Heat and makes the team go, because he came out flat out disinterested and it didn't even look like a game until he started looking for his shot.

Lebron has help but it really isn't like it was in 2011, where he really really didn't deserve MVP and it should've went to Dwight Howard.

[kingkirk]

I am completely and utterly confused if you're arguing for Lebron to be MVP because he is putting up a heap of numbers and doing work or that he shouldn't be MVP.

I'm confused and i'm not sure i see your point.

[kingkirk]

In the last few hours, 1 guy with Lebron in his username and the other one with Lebron in his avatar both agree that Lebron is not the MVP. Instead, a long term 'hater' in me is here claiming he is the MVP at this point.

Never thought i'd see the day

[LBJ-ITALY]

Lebron needs to elevate his game if he wants to deserve it again!
With Detroit he should have do more, grab more rebounds and take more shots! I'm tired about Lebron's taking only 16 shoots per game! in a game where Wade wasn't playing Lebron should take more shots specially when you see that your teammates weren't hitting their shots!

Ps: I'm a big Lebron fan!

[Hero]

I have it really close right now between the three of them.

Heat need to cut out the losses to bad teams or else their record won't be good enough.
KD is starting to step it up lately.

The disrespect Bosh gets sometimes is amazing. Seriously? A jumpshooter?

I don't know about disrespect but he hasn't been playing that well this season.

Really?

The guy that leads the Heat in points, rebounds and assist and you say that's team ball?

Good point. It's not that they don't play as a team but that everything they do is predicated on LBJ. OKC has Westbrook running things and he brings it every night with an amazing motor. Pacers have Hibbert/West and a really solid starting 5 in general. For the Heat LeBron has to do it all, every night. The fact that he leads the Heat in all major categories show this.

[BJGOAT3]

Comparing assists is pretty meaningless when George plays with two ball dominant guards who share playmaking duties whereas Lebron plays with a lineup without Wade and a jumpshooting point-guard.

Besides post plays don't get rewarded with assists, which is where David West mostly operates as the second option of Pacers whereas Lebron's assisting options including Bosh are generally taking perimeter shots, which are rewarded with assists. This is something that is being neglected almost all the time when people use Lebron's assist averages as highly superior to others, different teams-different circumstances.

Nevertheless I think Lebron's scoring numbers speak for itself, I just don't understand why Lamarcus Aldridge doesn't get MVP hype around here. He is beasting with 23 points-9.6 rebounds and Blazers have the first seed in West at the moment.

Edit: I would rank the MVP race as LMA-Lebron/Durant-George-CP3

[pelican piranha]

I posted this in the Lebron thread in response to someone saying Lebron shouldn't breakout of the offense when they need him to or are trailing and want to post it here as well.

That's part of what being a great player is. Sometimes you have to break out of the system and take over a game. That's why he's a superstar. You don't sit back sometimes and let the offense unfold when the team needs you to take over. You put your mark on the game. Dude has clearly been protecting his percentages. He's been frustrating to watch this season. The efficiency is nice and all, but I feel people are getting too caught up in that. His rebounding has been horrid for his standards. The assists are down. So many careless turnovers every game. Looks to lack energy. The decline is real.

[xMADEinDADEx]

Adding to the bosh discussion:

He allows us to bring the defense spo has visioned ever since he became a coach..

I get that and respect that, however we still need a big to change up on diff defensive looks.

Having a versatile defensive unit won't always work against teams that have traditional players at each position..

So it's really not much bosh's fault but rather an issue with our personnel.
I appreciate everything he does that shows and doesn't show in the box score.
He is an integral part of our team and I feel, especially on the offensive end, that he can be utilized a little bit better.


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[xBulletproof]

Just something I ran across from Nic Batum today:

“I remember one guy I tried to guard so much, make him work and he had 30 on me and that was T-Mac.I felt like I did everything I wanted to do on defense and T-Mac scored anyway. Paul George did that tonight. He did a great job. I tried to be all over him, tried to stop him and make him work. He made some tough shots. You have to give him credit. He’s an MVP player.”

[xMADEinDADEx]

Just something I ran across from Nic Batum today:

“I remember one guy I tried to guard so much, make him work and he had 30 on me and that was T-Mac.I felt like I did everything I wanted to do on defense and T-Mac scored anyway. Paul George did that tonight. He did a great job. I tried to be all over him, tried to stop him and make him work. He made some tough shots. You have to give him credit. He’s an MVP player.”

Just glad he didnt try to stop PG like how he tried to stop Jaun Carlos Navarro in the Olympics LOL


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[LBJ-ITALY]

I posted this in the Lebron thread in response to someone saying Lebron shouldn't breakout of the offense when they need him to or are trailing and want to post it here as well.

That's part of what being a great player is. Sometimes you have to break out of the system and take over a game. That's why he's a superstar. You don't sit back sometimes and let the offense unfold when the team needs you to take over. You put your mark on the game. Dude has clearly been protecting his percentages. He's been frustrating to watch this season. The efficiency is nice and all, but I feel people are getting too caught up in that. His rebounding has been horrid for his standards. The assists are down. So many careless turnovers every game. Looks to lack energy. The decline is real.

I agree with you about him protecting his percentages, his rebounding and assist/turnovers, but when you say " The declice is real" no way, come on !!!

[pelican piranha]

I posted this in the Lebron thread in response to someone saying Lebron shouldn't breakout of the offense when they need him to or are trailing and want to post it here as well.

That's part of what being a great player is. Sometimes you have to break out of the system and take over a game. That's why he's a superstar. You don't sit back sometimes and let the offense unfold when the team needs you to take over. You put your mark on the game. Dude has clearly been protecting his percentages. He's been frustrating to watch this season. The efficiency is nice and all, but I feel people are getting too caught up in that. His rebounding has been horrid for his standards. The assists are down. So many careless turnovers every game. Looks to lack energy. The decline is real.

I agree with you about him protecting his percentages, his rebounding and assist/turnovers, but when you say " The declice is real" no way, come on !!!

You agree with everything, his numbers have dipped, and he doesn't even look nearly the same. What other explanation is there? I'm sick of excuses for the guy this season. "Oh he's tired" lolololol, what? The season just started and he's 28 years old. "His back is injured", well, don't play. If he's out there, the injuries are irrelevant to me. If you play then I want no excuses.

[mademan]

You agree with everything, his numbers have dipped, and he doesn't even look nearly the same. What other explanation is there? I'm sick of excuses for the guy this season. "Oh he's tired" lolololol, what? The season just started and he's 28 years old. "His back is injured", well, don't play. If he's out there, the injuries are irrelevant to me. If you play then I want no excuses.

Your asking a dude who's come off 3 final runs and olympics to go full throttle at the beginning of the season. Why?

[Von Oswald]

You agree with everything, his numbers have dipped, and he doesn't even look nearly the same. What other explanation is there? I'm sick of excuses for the guy this season. "Oh he's tired" lolololol, what? The season just started and he's 28 years old. "His back is injured", well, don't play. If he's out there, the injuries are irrelevant to me. If you play then I want no excuses.

Coasting. He doesn't have the MJ/Kobe mentality of giving it all every game. He's more like Duncan, preserve yourself during regular season, help the team, explode in the playoffs. I'm a LBJ hater but that's a intelligent thing to do when you have a beast of a team.

[pelican piranha]

It probably is the smart thing to do actually. I just don't like it. I want to see him dominating every game and racking up MVPs as a fan. Still can definitely win the MVP, but I'd love to see him step up his level of play.

[Tave]

Lebron is giving you the opportunity to watch one of the greatest ever in his prime and you're too stupid to realize it. His raw assists and rebounds are a tick low because his minutes are a tick low. Otherwise, this is the best basketball we've ever seen him play, bad back or not.

It looks like he's coasting. He's not. He reached the point where the game has become effortless for him. Just enjoy the show.

[Chalky White]

Lebron is giving you the opportunity to watch one of the greatest ever in his prime and you're too stupid to realize it. His raw assists and rebounds are a tick low because his minutes are a tick low. Otherwise, this is the best basketball we've ever seen him play, bad back or not.

It looks like he's coasting. He's not. He reached the point where the game has become effortless for him. Just enjoy the show.

Meh, he doesn't really exude dominance when he's on the court right now. He's been good, but the above is hyperbole.

[pelican piranha]

Lebron is giving you the opportunity to watch one of the greatest ever in his prime and you're too stupid to realize it. His raw assists and rebounds are a tick low because his minutes are a tick low. Otherwise, this is the best basketball we've ever seen him play, bad back or not.

It looks like he's coasting. He's not. He reached the point where the game has become effortless for him. Just enjoy the show.

Last year he was playing incredible. If this is the best basketball he's ever played, then it certainly is unimpressive and dull. Give me 2012-13 LBJ any day. That was GOAT level.

[mademan]

Lebron has started this year better than he did last year though...