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Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders?

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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#101 » by glenn » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:35 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:
glenn wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:And I don't really care too much about the bar fight, but what is he doing there two days before his baby is born? That says a lot about him.


Huh? What was he supposed to be doing, constantly kneeling next to the pregnant mother of his child? She's pregnant, not at immenent risk to die of cancer.


I'm not a father, but talk to any wife who is expecting a baby in 1 or 2 days and I don't think a single one would endorse their husband getting drunk at a club by himself while she's at home.


I'll do that and get back to you. I was being a little flippant, but the level of judgment in this thread is a little staggering. I don't know their situation; neither does anyone else here.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#102 » by trwi7 » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:36 pm

Trade him to the Knicks for a hoard of Albanians to be named later.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#103 » by glenn » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:37 pm

tski1972 wrote:
glenn wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:And I don't really care too much about the bar fight, but what is he doing there two days before his baby is born? That says a lot about him.


Huh? What was he supposed to be doing, constantly kneeling next to the pregnant mother of his child? She's pregnant, not at immenent risk to die of cancer.


you seem to have as much common sense as Larry. :roll:


You got me, internet person. Common sense is just a way of saying that you have an opinion without facts to back it up.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#104 » by EastSideBucksFan » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:44 pm

Wooderson wrote:
EastSideBucksFan wrote:I'm not a father, but talk to any wife who is expecting a baby in 1 or 2 days and I don't think a single one would endorse their husband getting drunk at a club by himself while she's at home.


Do we even know if she was due at that time? Could easily have a few weeks early. Regardless, I think it's extreme to call him out on something that personal. Are we really going to crucify athletes for every aspect of their personal lives?



Without saying too much, they were certain to have the baby on Monday. I know this for fact.

It's not uncommon for a woman to deliver a day or two prior to a scheduled birth. So the father typically stays sober and ready at the drop of a hat.

I've had friends that abstained from alcohol or any social engagements for at least a week or two prior to delivery date.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#105 » by EastSideBucksFan » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm not supporting any trade of Larry Sanders at this time.

But I'm also not absolving him of any wrong doing being at the club by himself two days before his wife gives birth.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#106 » by theFireBlanket » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:46 pm

bizarro wrote:No. No. No.

How would anyone in their right mind encourage John Hammond to get on the phone with anyone concerning a trade? There are simply too many reasons to not do this. Sanders' value is at its lowest. He's our most polished defensive presence in the post. He had a terrible start to the season - in addition to this ongoing off-court fiasco. If anything, you wait the season out and hope Larry gets healthy and regains last year's form and then some. Hope Hammond and Drew are fired and then and only then do your due diligence (as you would with any player) and investigate his value throughout the league.

BUT, others have pointed this out in this thread, let the bar fight go. It was a bar fight. I swear, this new age of constant scrutiny and social media has made everyone so judgmental and soft. It was a poor decision to continue to engage the situation. Fine. Let's see if Larry can learn from this and, gods forbid, we stick with a high upside player (who likes Milwaukee!) and see if he develops.


I echo all of this. In addition any trade of him at the moment or this season is the sort insufferable type of move that Kohl would advocate due to being unable to control a bad PR situation. The organization needs to stop worrying about this sort of thing. He was jumped by group of 10 men. This isn't comparable to Glenn Robinson beating his wife.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#107 » by humanrefutation » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:51 pm

It's really no one's business as to what's going on between Larry and his wife. Without knowing what precipitated him going out and how his wife felt about that, it's stupid for anyone here to pass judgment on their relationship. Even if you have an issue with his decision making there, bring me someone who hasn't wronged his wife to some degree at one point or another and I'll show you a liar.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#108 » by raferfenix » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:52 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:I'm not supporting any trade of Larry Sanders at this time.

But I'm also not absolving him of any wrong doing being at the club by himself two days before his wife gives birth.


I'm sure you mean 'any trade that isn't maximizing his value.' Of course that's subjective, but if we could get a solid 2014 lottery pick let's say, that might be hard to pass up. Gotta play the percentages when going for a top 5 pick.

Even if we consider his value to be very high to us, Larry isn't untouchable by any stretch. And the issue also isn't just the bar fight right before his wife gave birth -- it's that he injured himself doing it.

For better or worse, I could see Kohl and the cronies placing a lot of blame for our horrid start on Sanders. Other GM's will know how Kohl feels about character too, so even if they try to lowball us, that doesn't necessarily mean that Larry's value has gone down so far.

The key would be having a GM who could maximize on his (or anyone's...) trade value.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#109 » by Wooderson » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:53 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:Without saying too much, they were certain to have the baby on Monday. I know this for fact.

It's not uncommon for a woman to deliver a day or two prior to a scheduled birth. So the father typically stays sober and ready at the drop of a hat.

I've had friends that abstained from alcohol or any social engagements for at least a week or two prior to delivery date.


Fair enough, did not know that was the case. I understand where you're coming from, but the only reason this is an issue is because he got into a fight. I just feel this type of criticism is reserved for TMZ or some other Kardashian-peddling "news"-outlet.

He lives with his mother, too, no? So it's not like she was alone.

In any event, I feel it's fair game to judge his actions in regard to fight (even though we don't have the full story). Beyond that it's between him and his family.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#110 » by glenn » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:54 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:
Wooderson wrote:
EastSideBucksFan wrote:I'm not a father, but talk to any wife who is expecting a baby in 1 or 2 days and I don't think a single one would endorse their husband getting drunk at a club by himself while she's at home.


Do we even know if she was due at that time? Could easily have a few weeks early. Regardless, I think it's extreme to call him out on something that personal. Are we really going to crucify athletes for every aspect of their personal lives?



Without saying too much, they were certain to have the baby on Monday. I know this for fact.

It's not uncommon for a woman to deliver a day or two prior to a scheduled birth. So the father typically stays sober and ready at the drop of a hat.

I've had friends that abstained from alcohol or any social engagements for at least a week or two prior to delivery date.


If you know his wife personally then I'm sure you are right. My point is that we can't all expect everyone to behave like we would or act superior when we don't know all of the aspects of a situation. One woman may want her husband to be on call at every moment while another might want some peace from their hyperactive spouse and tell him to get the hell out for the night. Different strokes. Judging the behavior of someone I don’t know is ridiculous when I don’t have all of the information. Unless they are a message board poster, that is.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#111 » by Nebula1 » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:55 pm

humanrefutation wrote:It's really no one's business as to what's going on between Larry and his wife. Without knowing what precipitated him going out and how his wife felt about that, it's stupid for anyone here to pass judgment on their relationship. Even if you have an issue with his decision making there, bring me someone who hasn't wronged his wife to some degree at one point or another and I'll show you a liar.



It's always frustrating to hear people dictate how others should live their lives and pass judgement on those who may live a different lifestyle.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#112 » by Matches Malone » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:57 pm

I wouldn't trade him. He has too much value as an interior defender. If you can get back a top 7 pick in this years draft then I would certainly entertain that, but I don't think Sanders value is that high around the league at this given moment.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#113 » by cinematographer » Thu Dec 5, 2013 7:58 pm

Guys:

The Houston version of this board, clutchfans, has their own buckpack, with his own sterling record. He's been reporting the Houston/Milwaukee talks have been centered around Ersan and the flipping of Asik to a third team. This guy's history and the clutchfans support of him gives him enough credibility in my eyes.

Anyways, while the Bucks' cap situation makes trading Sanders -- and the rules for dealing with extension $ in the last year of the original rookie contract -- easier than if he'd be on a team over/at the cap, it becomes much easier in July,

For the Bucks to trade Sanders, one of three things needs to happen:

1) Henson becomes a dominant defender.

He's allowing opponents to convert at only a .404 clip at the rim, which is better than Sanders last year, and only Hibbert, of players in the top 15 in blocks, allows a better rate. Small sample size alert, but it's promising.

Larry grabbed 18.6% of available rebounds last year, and a staggering 25.8% of defensive rebounds. Henson, this year, is at 14.6%/21.7%. Last year, however, Henson was 19.3%/24.4%.

Henson's vastly improved on pick and roll defending -- though, in fairness, it'd be impossible to get worse from his level last year -- but he still has lapses in rotating and positioning when off the ball. And that's a deserved drop in rebounding.

We'll see.

2) Embiid is the pick.

Sanders would be making more by himself than Embiid and Henson combined. Unless a team knocks the Bucks over with an offer for Henson, Sanders would be gone.

3) The Bucks get a Too-Good-to-be-True offer.

I don't know who would make an offer that has enough upside in the reward department to counter taking Larry's risk off the books. I don't think it would happen. But if a top-10 pick or better is offered, well, bye Larry. Thanks for standing up to the swag twins and playing amazing defense.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#114 » by theFireBlanket » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:12 pm

cinematographer wrote:Guys:The Houston version of this board, clutchfans, has their own buckpack, with his own sterling record. He's been reporting the Houston/Milwaukee talks have been centered around Ersan and the flipping of Asik to a third team. This guy's history and the clutchfans support of him gives him enough credibility in my eyes.


Without Sanders involved in any way I like the sound of this, depending on the return from Houston and the third team.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#115 » by JayMKE » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:13 pm

That Asik three way trade rumor has been around for a bit now, I don't see that happening. Houston apparently wants a buttload for Asik, Hammond needs to stay the hell away from Morey.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#116 » by JimmyTheKid » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:34 pm

Nebula1 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:It's really no one's business as to what's going on between Larry and his wife. Without knowing what precipitated him going out and how his wife felt about that, it's stupid for anyone here to pass judgment on their relationship. Even if you have an issue with his decision making there, bring me someone who hasn't wronged his wife to some degree at one point or another and I'll show you a liar.



It's always frustrating to hear people dictate how others should live their lives and pass judgement on those who may live a different lifestyle.


Wasn't this thread created to entertain the idea of trading our highest paid (and arguably BEST) basketball player? I'd say EVERYTHING (on the court and off) factors into these types of decisions. If this sort of thing happened when the Bucks were going on a FTD type run I have a feeling many of you would be singing a different tune. It just so happens that Larry got hurt in a bar fight at the PERFECT time for this franchise, as unbelievably ridiculous as that may sound. Theres no way this front office even entertains the idea of tanking had key contributors not suffered early season injuries. But I'd imagine that the more the losses pile, the more the front office will be inclined to wave the white flag and embrace the tank.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#117 » by GoldenAntlers » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:35 pm

No.

I think Larry will find his groove yet this year and I think he is a good fit for this team.

I want nothing to do with Asik on the Bucks.

I would only even consider being okay with this if there was a 2014 1st round and at least 1 other young, very talented player involved.

Trade Ersan, he's toast. Love him, but he's toast.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#118 » by Chuck Diesel » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:39 pm

I really don't care about the bar fight. If it were anyone else on the team I probably wouldn't have thought twice about it. I just don't trust Larry's brain. I don't think it's the brain of basketball greatness or one worth 44 million. Hope I'm proven wrong.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#119 » by Bernman » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:40 pm

F**k no, we got our poor man's David Robinson situation. We get a top pick this season in spite of having a difference maker on the roster. Milk that injury and legal situation, then come back next year with Long Arm Larry, Marcus MoSmartie, Johnny A., Henson, and # of other prospects + picks acquired for our other vets like Ersan; then start trying to win with youth. We should have enough to potentially contend with going forward, if we're decent next year. And if we're not, well then we can keep adding to the young core.

That should be the Bucks' FO's strategy. To try and win with young, promising players. We should never be tanking from the outset of a season. Once we're already into the season, and it's clear we're not good enough, then sure, it's pointless not to, plus you only have to be employing that strategy for a brief period of time. But I don't like us permeating the message in the media that we should be trying to potentially lose going into a season because then our calls for a change of approach from the Bucks will be marginalized. It should be limited to the cry here of the anti-establishment and with ironic tank pictures. The more accurate stance we should have, and how we should relay it in the media, is we want to assemble a bunch of young, talented players via multiple first round picks and prospects, and then try to win with them ASAP. That only takes a partial regular and full offseason to accomplish. Then away we go.
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Re: Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders? 

Post#120 » by EastSideBucksFan » Thu Dec 5, 2013 8:44 pm

raferfenix wrote:
EastSideBucksFan wrote:I'm not supporting any trade of Larry Sanders at this time.

But I'm also not absolving him of any wrong doing being at the club by himself two days before his wife gives birth.


I'm sure you mean 'any trade that isn't maximizing his value.' Of course that's subjective, but if we could get a solid 2014 lottery pick let's say, that might be hard to pass up. Gotta play the percentages when going for a top 5 pick.

Even if we consider his value to be very high to us, Larry isn't untouchable by any stretch. And the issue also isn't just the bar fight right before his wife gave birth -- it's that he injured himself doing it.

For better or worse, I could see Kohl and the cronies placing a lot of blame for our horrid start on Sanders. Other GM's will know how Kohl feels about character too, so even if they try to lowball us, that doesn't necessarily mean that Larry's value has gone down so far.

The key would be having a GM who could maximize on his (or anyone's...) trade value.


Larry Sanders value couldn't be any lower than it is right now. That's the main reason I wouldn't even be looking to explore trades because we'll only get lowballed. I'd rather the Bucks collect losses with him still on the roster and coming back in the future.

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