Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders?

[Nebula1]

Morey wants 2 firsts for Asik. I'm suggesting Ersan straight up is not enough for Asik, especially considering the need for a reserve center and that the package would likely have to be bigger, but hopefully no Jones included since he's been a major Houston success catalyst.

If Ersan for Asik isn't enough, you think adding a player just as good as Asik into the deal is fair? It's like trading $1.50 for $1.05. We have plenty of options at backup center to trade, including Udoh and Zaza, why in the world would Sanders make one bit of sense to give up? You're literally lighting an asset on fire to tank when you could, oh I don't know, trade that asset for what he's worth?

Clearly Houston would give up more for both Ersan and Larry. My whole point is that it's unlikely that Houston moves Asik and weaken the paint defense and I'd personally not give up Jones.

[Nebula1]

I understand that, but Jones has put Houston in a position of strength. The Rockets don't need to trade at all and are stronger with Asik as a reserve.

They aren't that strong. TJ is not an established player and is kind of a tweener. They could definitely use Ersan.

In your proposal, Houston gets no reserve center which is the key to the Rockets "defense". Rockets can't defend anywhere but point and paint so the reserve center is paramount imo.

Then throw in Udoh. He's expendable here anyway.

Rockets are worse with your trade since Ilyasova, Jones and Casspi now have to split time. Howard has no backup so I pass on this deal. Rockets giving up too much.

I don't agree they are worse. Motiejunas is a non factor right now and Ilyasova would play a much bigger role than Asik.

I also don't agree that they are giving up too much. For their purposes Ilyasova > Asik and the Suns' pick is future compensation for Motiejunas. It makes perfect sense, and like I said we should be willing to bolster it with Udoh if need be. Then they'd have zero to complain about.

Also, no way Suns do that. Suns like Plumlee, drafted Len and have the 2 spot reserved for Goodwin.

How do those players benefit their desire to win this year? They are 10-9 and the Suns' owner has a tendency to want to win ASAP. Asik and Mayo would help them do that much more than Okafor or the picks. The picks shouldn't mean all that much to them since they have so many.

My trade idea was very realistic. It needs little tweaks at most.

Jones has been really good since starting. He's not a tweener and has been a major factor.

Throwing in Udoh doesn't improve Houston's chance at a title. Asik is better.

Phoenix is going young, but winning with their style of play. They also dumped Shannon Brown, etc and like the Okafor expiring. They are rebuilding despite winning. Had they wanted an Asik, they simply would have kept Gortat.

[Bernman]

There's no way Hammond pulls that trade.

I'm not sure Hammond is running things. But the bigger question is whether or not the Bulls would try to pull the wool over Herb Kohl's eyes and how much they'd be willing to give up.

If I were Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf, I'd call Herb directly. Here would be my pitch:

"Herb, I know that you need to get rid of Sanders for PR reasons. I also know that while you can be "bad" for one-year, you can't do a multi-year rebuild because of the new arena issue (a lie, but hey, this is how Reinsdorf sells it and appeals to how Herb thinks).

So, what I'd propose is a swap where you send us Sanders, Ersan and a top-ten protected #1 pick, and we send you Deng and Noah. Deng and Noah will instantly fix your frontline and give you a good shot at a 6-8th seed in the East. So, you will instantly become respectable. For us? We probably will flip Ersan for another long-term asset and do a full rebuild since Rose's career may be shot. But our market can handle a multi-year rebuild, while yours cannot "

Not saying that happens, but if I were Reinsdorf, I'd be all over that.

We have to keep losing as much as possible as soon as possible, to prevent this kind of scenario from possibly happening.

Still, at 12 under already, and w/ a bunch of long-term injuries, I don't think even Kohl is crazy enough to justify investing in winning now. I think that's just a phobia by you.

[Baddy Chuck]

Clearly Houston would give up more for both Ersan and Larry. My whole point is that it's unlikely that Houston moves Asik and weaken the paint defense and I'd personally not give up Jones.

As someone said above, if they aren't interested in some sort of Ersan for Asik swap, then there is really no need to even be discussing a swap between teams.

[Nebula1]

The Rockets can have Zaza or Udoh. There's no way they get Sanders.

Then what's the motivation for Houston? Houston is trying to get deep into the Playoffs and right now Jones is more valuable than Ilyasova.

Houston can/does shoot plenty of 3s so the notion of a stretch 4 is a bit overblown, especially at the cost of Asik.

If they don't want or feel they need Ersan, then the two teams seem to have no reason to make any deal. This all began with Houston wanting Ersan, that's where it should end.

The Bucks can't excuse trading a stud defender for a group of lesser players, if they're serious about turning the franchise into a contender and getting an arena built in MKE.

The Houston desire for Ersan is old.. before Jones started doing his thing. Casspi has been really good too, which is why I think the Asik tag went up.

I agree it might not be a good fit anymore. Shockingly, that window may have closed for the Bucks.

T Jones > Ersan

[Nebula1]

Clearly Houston would give up more for both Ersan and Larry. My whole point is that it's unlikely that Houston moves Asik and weaken the paint defense and I'd personally not give up Jones.

As someone said above, if they aren't interested in some sort of Ersan for Asik swap, then there is really no need to even be discussing a swap between teams.

Agreed... unless it's a much bigger deal which includes Sanders and Ersan.

[Baddy Chuck]

Clearly Houston would give up more for both Ersan and Larry. My whole point is that it's unlikely that Houston moves Asik and weaken the paint defense and I'd personally not give up Jones.

As someone said above, if they aren't interested in some sort of Ersan for Asik swap, then there is really no need to even be discussing a swap between teams.

Agreed... unless it's a much bigger deal which includes Sanders and Ersan.

No, it's not even worth discussing because that deal is laughably bad for Milwaukee.

[Baddy Chuck]

I agree it might not be a good fit anymore. Shockingly, that window may have closed for the Bucks.

T Jones > Ersan

That's wildly debatable, especially if we're only going off a week long stretch of games.

[Nebula1]

As someone said above, if they aren't interested in some sort of Ersan for Asik swap, then there is really no need to even be discussing a swap between teams.

Agreed... unless it's a much bigger deal which includes Sanders and Ersan.

No, it's not even worth discussing because that deal is laughably bad for Milwaukee.

For the millionth time, it's not Asik for Ersan and Sanders. It's an Asik PACKAGE for Ersan and Sanders. It could be a 3 team deal, etc.


Also Jones is still 21 and been a key piece for Houston while Ersan has struggled. No way I even trade Jones straight up for Ersan.


But anyway.

My only thing is that if I'm the Bucks, I'm doing everything to preserve my shot at #1 short of trading Giannis and that includes trading Sanders for a deal that makes sense.

[Baddy Chuck]

Take out Jones and the only package Houston could add with Asik might not be worth the bottle Larry threw in the club. They have a late first and D-League fodder.

[JayMKE]

Trading Sanders and Ersan together better net a lot better return than an "Asik package".

Hammond needs to stay the course, we're tanking just fine.

[Nebula1]

Trading Sanders and Ersan together better net a lot better return than an "Asik package".

Hammond needs to stay the course, we're tanking just fine.

Asik, prospects and picks may make sense if Milwaukee is down with preserving the tank.

Getting somebody back that pulls Milwaukee out of the top 3 picks (not hard to do), then that's bad.

I'm thinking the Bucks are now: Giannis + 2014 pick. The rest is open game.



Let's remember that Ersan is not having a good year and Sanders has 1 year of production. You may be over-valuing these guys.

[Baddy Chuck]

Asik's having such a good year though.

[RandyBreuer]

If it locks us into a bottom 2 record with Utah then yes for the right deal. If Houston were to give Asik/Motiejunas/Parsons/Canaan/1st for a Larry/Ersan/Neal/Delfino type deal then yes.

[Nebula1]

Asik's having such a good year though.

He is.. in a different role. Again, as a Houston fan, I'd rather keep him since he's about as good a reserve Houston can have for Howard.

But I'd take Sanders in that role too.


Still, Milwaukee can't keep Sanders if it risks the #1 pick.

[Turk Nowitzki]

If it locks us into a bottom 2 record with Utah then yes for the right deal. If Houston were to give Asik/Motiejunas/Parsons/Canaan/1st for a Larry/Ersan/Neal/Delfino type deal then yes.

Yeah, that deal will never happen. They wouldn't even do that if you took out Canaan and the 1st.

[Nebula1]

If it locks us into a bottom 2 record with Utah then yes for the right deal. If Houston were to give Asik/Motiejunas/Parsons/Canaan/1st for a Larry/Ersan/Neal/Delfino type deal then yes.

No Parsons, sorry. Also no need for Neal or obviously Delfino.

[ampd]

Trading Larry right now would be awful.

Trading for a C that has 1 year left on his deal, will be 29 next season and demanding a new contract given we are trying to go young and rebuild would also be awful.

Asik makes no sense for this team, either this season or next. The only possible thing he can do is make our draft position worse, and after doing that, demand a huge contract extension before leaving in free agency.

[ampd]

Trading Sanders and Ersan together better net a lot better return than an "Asik package".

Hammond needs to stay the course, we're tanking just fine.

If Larry comes back and we are really winning games (which I doubt) just trade Mayo and Ersan. We aren't going to be holding teams under 80.

[JayMKE]

I don't think Sanders will prevent us from getting a top 3 pick, I'm not worried. He's hurt, has off the court issues, not a consistent player to begin with, and we'll probably be like 20 games under .500 by the time he's back. If you're worried about the tank then the guys to trade are Mayo and Ersan.