Is Billy King the worst GM in league history?

bullsnewdynasty · Post #81 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Fri Dec 6, 2013 10:52 pm

Yeah, it's mind boggling how he didn't even put lottery protection on any of those picks. That's grade school level stuff.

Buckeye-NBAFan · Post #82 » by **Buckeye-NBAFan** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 12:29 am

Q00 wrote:He had the 3rd pick in the 2010 draft, which he could've used on Cousins. Instead he took Favors, who he then traded along with the 3rd pick in 2011 (which he could've used on Leonard) all for Deron Williams.

Lol @ drafting Leonard 3rd. He should have had the 2011-12 team lose 1 more game so they could draft Anthony Davis if we're getting that ridiculous. No one had Leonard 3rd.

They gave up a lot for Williams, but who knew he'd be injured. The biggest mistakes he's made as Nets GM have been:
Signing the collective crap of Petro, Farmar, Morrow, Outlaw to multi year deals.
Trading the 2012 pick for a free agent they could have just signed if they wanted (and they would have drafted Barnes, not Drummond, with that pick. They already had Lopez and still wanted Howard).
Naming Deron Williams GM and letting him dictate the 2012 offseason rather than calling his bluff and leaving cap space for Howard in 2013.
Those moves combined with bad luck (Williams falling off a cliff, Lopez injury, ect) have screwed them.

But the worst is easily giving up uprotected 1sts for one of the worst contracts in the league. You don't trade unprotected firsts period.

BKing10 · Post #83 » by **BKing10** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 1:19 am

chrbal wrote:There was some guy that ran the cavs in the 80s that got them taken away from him by the NBA. he was that bad. Billy King sees that as "challenge accepted"

You are talking about Ted Stepien. He was the owner, but he was definitely worse than king. He is the reason you can't trade consecutive first round picks. He was terrible

Edrees · Post #84 » by **Edrees** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 1:40 am

he built a good roster, he just hired the wrong coach

Fobbie · Post #85 » by **Fobbie** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 1:50 am

Man I wonder how these horrible GMs keep getting job with NBA team.

Q00 · Post #86 » by **Q00** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 2:07 am

Buckeye-NBAFan wrote:
Q00 wrote:He had the 3rd pick in the 2010 draft, which he could've used on Cousins. Instead he took Favors, who he then traded along with the 3rd pick in 2011 (which he could've used on Leonard) all for Deron Williams.

Trading the 2012 pick for a free agent they could have just signed if they wanted (and they would have drafted Barnes, not Drummond, with that pick. They already had Lopez and still wanted Howard).
.

You don't see the irony there?

He traded Favors and the 3rd pick in 2011 for Deron, and then the 2012 6th pick for Wallace, all with the intention that Deron/Wallace would be able to attract Dwight.

Except if he would've just kept those picks and realized what was sitting there in those drafts, he could've had TWO superstar Centers right now, both better than Dwight, in Cousins/Drummond.

There's nothing really outrageous or fantastical about this, except the fantasy King had about getting Dwight. He had the 3rd pick in 2010 and could've taken Cousins. Had he kept the 2012 pick he could've had Drummond too. That's pretty straightfoward. Instead he passed on both chances to chase some pipe dream of getting Dwight, and now has none of them.

Buckeye-NBAFan · Post #87 » by **Buckeye-NBAFan** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 5:31 am

Q00 wrote:
Buckeye-NBAFan wrote:

Trading the 2012 pick for a free agent they could have just signed if they wanted (and they would have drafted Barnes, not Drummond, with that pick. They already had Lopez and still wanted Howard).
.

You don't see the irony there?

He traded Favors and the 3rd pick in 2011 for Deron, and then the 2012 6th pick for Wallace, all with the intention that Deron/Wallace would be able to attract Dwight.

Except if he would've just kept those picks and realized what was sitting there in those drafts, he could've had TWO superstar Centers right now, both better than Dwight, in Cousins/Drummond.

There's nothing really outrageous or fantastical about this, except the fantasy King had about getting Dwight. He had the 3rd pick in 2010 and could've taken Cousins. Had he kept the 2012 pick he could've had Drummond too. That's pretty straightfoward. Instead he passed on both chances to chase some pipe dream of getting Dwight, and now has none of them.

I love how you say Drummond is a straightforward pick at #6 when he actually went #9 in the draft. And how Cousins should have been the selection at #3 when he went #5. Favors wasn't a bad pick. If the Nets kept the #6 selection and drafted their need, Barnes, the guy they likely would have drafted, that wouldn't have been a bad pick. Instead you say he should have drafted Drummond when they already had a C in Lopez. Newsflash, there's probably not one GM in the league who would have drafted Drummond at #6 if they ran the Nets.

You can't judge a GM by "well, if he made X, then he could have made Y, Z, A, B and C." And you certainly can judge him based on some unrealistic expectation of him not having a perfect draft record. You have to judge each trade/draft pick in a vacuum. And if he wins more than he loses, he's a decent GM. It's ridiculous to string together 5 outcomes in hindsight that could never be envisioned at the time of the 1st action that triggers this string of perfect decisions.

In a vacuum, a lot of King's trades look terrible. But the guy you seem to expect him to be would be the best GM in the league. It doesn't make any sense to argue that King's the worst because he's not smarter than every other GM in the league and would have taken Drummond #6, Leonard #3 ect.

Notanoob · Post #88 » by **Notanoob** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 5:45 am

A lot of this hindsight stuff people come up with is BS, but you should always draft the best talent ahead of need or fit-this is how all-stars slip to mediocre or decent teams when awful ones could have gotten them. Now, obviously if the talent level is close enough then you don't have to go with the best talent over fit, but in the vast majority of cases you'd rather draft the best player.

Of course, it could be that GMs do always draft who they consider the best player, but just don't have great talent evaluators. That's a different problem.

Sothron · Post #89 » by **Sothron** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:02 am

I wonder how many Nets fans are aware of the fact the Hawks have the right to swap picks with them in this deep draft coming up? They won't even get a lottery pick if say the Hawks make the playoffs and the Nets do not.

old rem · Post #90 » by **old rem** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:27 am

chrbal wrote:There was some guy that ran the cavs in the 80s that got them taken away from him by the NBA. he was that bad. Billy King sees that as "challenge accepted"

Well..yeah...but I vote for the since unemployed guy who was with the Warriors and traded Wilt Chamberlain for ...whatever.

NCHeels2008 · Post #91 » by **NCHeels2008** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 7:44 am

I'll put it this way if the Hornets traded Chris Paul to the Nets that year for Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, 2011 3rd pick and 2013 21st pick

that deal would've been lauded as fair value at best, CP3 and Deron have gone in separate directions since then but don't get it twisted King bet the house on Deron with that offer. When you make a move like that you have to do what you can around that knowing that if he busts you are SOL. The thing that makes King so bad is that he continually gave away the picks going forward after that. Unless you are one of the 5 best teams in the league for a lengthy era (I'm looking at you Miami/LAL) you can't give away firsts like candy.

Shock Defeat · Post #92 » by **Shock Defeat** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 8:06 am

Q00 wrote:
Buckeye-NBAFan wrote:
Q00 wrote:He had the 3rd pick in the 2010 draft, which he could've used on Cousins. Instead he took Favors, who he then traded along with the 3rd pick in 2011 (which he could've used on Leonard) all for Deron Williams.

Trading the 2012 pick for a free agent they could have just signed if they wanted (and they would have drafted Barnes, not Drummond, with that pick. They already had Lopez and still wanted Howard).
.

You don't see the irony there?

He traded Favors and the 3rd pick in 2011 for Deron, and then the 2012 6th pick for Wallace, all with the intention that Deron/Wallace would be able to attract Dwight.

Except if he would've just kept those picks and realized what was sitting there in those drafts, he could've had TWO superstar Centers right now, both better than Dwight, in Cousins/Drummond.

There's nothing really outrageous or fantastical about this, except the fantasy King had about getting Dwight. He had the 3rd pick in 2010 and could've taken Cousins. Had he kept the 2012 pick he could've had Drummond too. That's pretty straightfoward. Instead he passed on both chances to chase some pipe dream of getting Dwight, and now has none of them.

Drummond better than Dwight? What are you smoking bro?

rottenzombie · Post #93 » by **rottenzombie** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 8:33 am

What Billy king did was bad, but Bryan Colangelo is definitely worth mentioning.

He traded for a injury-riddled Jermaine O'neal with a bloated contract, which helped Pacers to clear cap space, and in return give Pacers the pick that became Hibbert.

He then traded O'neal for Marion and in the process took on the deadweight contract of Marcus Banks, which helped the Heat clearing spaces to eventually sign James and Bosh.

He sign and traded Shawn Marion to the Mavs, and also traded Peja Stojakavic to the Mavs, where both were pivotal in Mavs championship run.

So essentially this man helped three franchise to either win championships or become a contender in a brief space of 3 years. Too bad none of those teams were managed by him.

And the team he did manage? Well he repeatedly applied band-aid solution in the hope of making it a borderline playoff team, and thus trapping the team in treadmill purgatory until today.

So ladies and gentleman, I give you, Bryan Colangelo.

Sixersftw · Post #94 » by **Sixersftw** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:15 am

Billy King, in his infinite wisdom, planned on signing Willie Green to a 17 million dollar contract. On the same day the contract was to be signed Willie Green tore up his ACL playing pickup. But Billy, seeing that Green was a future hall of famer in the mold of a Kobe Bryant or a Michael Jordan, decided ACL or no ACL he was signing Willie to that 17 million dollar. Willie Greens just don't grow on trees now do they?

I hate that man.
He stole Allen Iverson's prime.

orlandomanic · Post #95 » by **orlandomanic** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:17 am

He is not the worst GM in pro sports history, but he is on the Mount Rushmore of worst GMs ever.

HotrodBeaubois · Post #96 » by **HotrodBeaubois** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 10:10 am

Frank Dux wrote:I don't know what the Nets saw in Gerald when they traded for him. He was very average looking as a Blazer, and was very clearly on the decline as his skillset(or lack of) didn't bode well when father time came knockin'.

This is why you never get caught up in players just because of their names. A lot of people saw this coming from a mile away, yet Billy King and Prok refused to look at the situation logically, and instead catered to their diva "star" player (Deron) and signed an over the hill tweener, with no skill set.

Even if Lillard just turned into a solid rotation player it would still be a bad trade, and to make matters worse, Lillard is looking like he's going to be an all star level point guard for a good number of years. He's a flat out stud.

Funny how Nets Fans kept insisting that Wallace was better than Shawn Marion .

Marion 20 Gms 30.7 MPG 11.6 PPG 7.3 RPG 1.9 APG 0.9 BPG 1.4 SPG .450 FG% .353 3P% .781 FT% 14.91 PER
Wallace 21 Gms 24.7 MPG 4.7 PPG 3.5 RPG 2.8 APG 0.2 BPG 1.5 SPG .487 FG% .400 3P% .375 FT% 9.20 PER

p0peye · Post #97 » by **p0peye** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 12:31 pm

Isiah Thomas got challenged.

NBAfan3024 · Post #98 » by **NBAfan3024** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 1:30 pm

They are screwed going forward. 100 million payroll to boot.

165bows · Post #99 » by **165bows** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 1:53 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Yeah, it's mind boggling how he didn't even put lottery protection on any of those picks. That's grade school level stuff.

The Portland pick was one thing, but they really couldn't protect the Boston picks because you can only trade a pick seven years out (the other half of the mentioned Stepien rule).

Say what happens if this pick is protected top 3 and the Nets win the lottery? All the other picks get pushed back a year as you can't trade consecutive future picks. If this happens a couple of times, all of the sudden picks are getting pushed out of the back end of the trade and disappearing. That's why you commonly see single picks traded as 'x protection for so many years or else two second rounders,' that you can't send picks out infinitely into the future.

Now that I think about it, that may be why the Lillard pick was so lightly protected. Not that they thought the other 57 guys in that draft sucked, but they didn't want to get hamstrung in being able to send out more picks in the future as a part of a go for it now plan.

Still, terrible long term outcomes for them, even if they get healthy this season and get bounced in the first round.

HeatRing2012 · Post #100 » by **HeatRing2012** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 10:17 pm

165bows wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Yeah, it's mind boggling how he didn't even put lottery protection on any of those picks. That's grade school level stuff.

The Portland pick was one thing, but they really couldn't protect the Boston picks because you can only trade a pick seven years out (the other half of the mentioned Stepien rule).

Say what happens if this pick is protected top 3 and the Nets win the lottery? All the other picks get pushed back a year as you can't trade consecutive future picks. If this happens a couple of times, all of the sudden picks are getting pushed out of the back end of the trade and disappearing. That's why you commonly see single picks traded as 'x protection for so many years or else two second rounders,' that you can't send picks out infinitely into the future.

Now that I think about it, that may be why the Lillard pick was so lightly protected. Not that they thought the other 57 guys in that draft sucked, but they didn't want to get hamstrung in being able to send out more picks in the future as a part of a go for it now plan.

Still, terrible long term outcomes for them, even if they get healthy this season and get bounced in the first round.

I don't agree with your logic

but let me ask you this: why didn't the Nets (Billy King) at least added a protection to the last traded pick then (2017) ?