Marc Stein,"Rockets determined to trade Omer Asik..."

[parson]

Tweeted at around 12:37. Link: https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine

Hearing this strong: Rockets determined to trade Omer Asik by Dec. 19 at latest and have ramped up discussions with potential trade partners

What are we willing to give? I'd have gladly offered Millsap before the season started but, now, Millsap's become pretty valuable to us.

What about Nogueira and a lottery protected 1st?

[Jamaaliver]

If we acquire Asik, the problem becomes where do we play him?

If he didn't want to be a backup Center to Dwight, he definitely won't want to be a backup Center to Horford.

And I'm not comfortable moving Millsap to SF.

And I won't even discuss Horford coming off the bench.

While there are enough minutes to go around for AL, Paul and Omer, ego and comes into play when all three want to (and deserve to) start.

[parson]

We're 26th in the NBA in rebounding differential, we don't protect the rim and our best player has gotten injured each of the past 3 seasons playing out of position at Center (which has led him to publicly lobby for a Center to move him to PF).

Millsap and Carroll would give us the best of both worlds at SF.

[parson]

Stein's article in ESPN: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10090 ... rade-block

Taking this step with Asik now is in essence an attempt to persuade potential suitors to put their best offer on the table quickly now that the Rockets have established such an exact time frame for trying to complete a trade.

Morey, "Leverage? Leverage? I've got some leverage around here somewhere."

[Jamaaliver]

What about Nogueira and a lottery protected 1st?

My goodness, what if Nogueira becomes ASIK 2.0?

Only cheaper and younger!!!

[Phunkabilly]

What about Nogueira and a lottery protected 1st?

My goodness, what if Nogueira becomes ASIK 2.0?

Only cheaper and younger!!!

That's a mighty big "IF". And even if that does come to be, it won't be for another couple of years.

I think I'd be willing to trade Bebe for a center that's a known commodity. I kinda like the idea of Bud having the choice of a "big" lineup in Asik/Horford/Milsap and a "small" lineup in Horford/Milsap/Carroll. That gives us pretty good flexibility without having to water down the talent on the court. Of course that also tightens up the payroll flexibility for the next couple of years, so I don't know if Ferry would be willing to pull the trigger...

[parson]

"No fat chicks?" You have no idea...


(Just in case, this is a comment on the glories of the fairer sex, not basketball.)

[graymule]

We, the Hawk fans, don't want to play Horford at center. We don't want to
move him to PF and make Millsap move to SF Want to leave Millsap where he is
and put Asik in as our starting center?

The solution is simple. Trade Horford for Asik.

Now, you have your "real" center, you have your PF in Millsap and you no longer
have the problem of Horford being out of position because he's no longer here.

[NeZoRiL]

We, the Hawk fans, don't want to play Horford at center. We don't want to
move him to PF and make Millsap move to SF Want to leave Millsap where he is
and put Asik in as our starting center?

The solution is simple. Trade Horford for Asik.

Now, you have your "real" center, you have your PF in Millsap and you no longer
have the problem of Horford being out of position because he's no longer here.

Asik doesn't need to play 48 minutes a game. Split Millsap's minutes between him and Asik.

[ATL Boy]

We, the Hawk fans, don't want to play Horford at center. We don't want to
move him to PF and make Millsap move to SF Want to leave Millsap where he is
and put Asik in as our starting center?

The solution is simple. Trade Horford for Asik.

Now, you have your "real" center, you have your PF in Millsap and you no longer
have the problem of Horford being out of position because he's no longer here.

Thing is: Houston has very little leverage when it comes to this trade because Asik publicly demanded a trade. Horford is a much better player than Asik and he's signed in for 3 more years, there's also nothing else Houston could give us to match the difference in talent between Horford and Asik: Parsons would be a start but their picks will all be late for years to come. We're not bailing Houston out by giving them Horford. And I'm a guy who really wants Asik on this team.

[NeZoRiL]

They would never trade Parsons. That guy is the glue in the team that is one incident away from being problematic. He is Lin's best friend and he put in a lot of effort into getting Dwight Howard. I don't see us trading Millsap before Horford.

[Winglish]

Word of warning:

Moving Millsap out of position or to the bench as the 6th man left Millsap acting petulant and disgruntled in Utah. We saw it happen with the emergence of Derrick Favors. He said all the right things, but Sap's sulky demeanor and lack of fight on the court spoke louder than words. This is exactly why Utah let him walk at the end of the season rather than offer a contract.

Right now Atlanta is enjoying the Paul Millsap of old. He was a huge fan favorite in Utah. You're better off keeping Millsap in a starter's role at the PF position.

[azuresou1]

I'm not moving Millsap to the bench where he's going to be pouty, and I'm also not starting him at the 3 where he is not being put in a position to succeed. Asik is also proving to be pouty coming off the bench, so that rules out the 3 big man rotation. In general, I'm not a fan of 3 big rotations, which haven't worked for anyone other than the Lakers (and that's because Odom had the ball skills to run point forward, which is a rare exception).

I've come to appreciate the things Millsap brings to this ballclub, and I have less and less faith in what Asik brings to the club, given his near-complete lack of offense. Also, we actually have an above-average defense, and Top 3(!) defensive rebounding - our rebounding woes come on the offensive end.

Trading Millsap for Asik will probably increase our offensive rebounding, but not in a good way. If Millsap goes out for Asik, I need Parsons coming back as well. Since that creates its own gap in value, I'd offer Cartier Martin and a second as well.

Really though, I'd prefer to just keep our current lineup, get demolished by Indy or Miami while building a winning team culture that plays the right way and never gives up, and then draft Wiggins or Parker into the single most optimal situation a superstar rookie can be drafted into.

[MaceCase]

Asik is the least accomplished and therefore least deserving of a starting position and he's not some young buck where you can say he needs a major amount of minutes to develop either. Just because he and certain fans overrate the living daylights out of his one mediocre starting season doesn't mean that he's actually cemented himself as a starter in this league.

This would be rather evident in his trade market. Darryl Morey would not have to be resorting to these type of tactics if rival GMs already viewed Asik as a difference maker worthy of major assets. His salary isn't really that restrictive either once you consider the long list of other worse to mediocre Centers making that same amount of dough annually and those guys are owed that over multiple years rather than just one.

So where does that leave us? Valuing him for what he is, a good role-player. He should at least feel confident that he can get on the court with either of Sap or Horf whereas he can't and couldn't with Dwight and Noah. Look across the league too and there is literally only 1 team that would see him as an upgrade over what they already have at the position (New Orleans). Every other team either has a better player, much cheaper comparable player or young developing prospect playing center for them so he's going to have to eventually check his ego and recognize that he's not some star. His career might go the way of Josh Childress if he keeps demanding to start.

[azuresou1]

To elaborate a little on the last point:

Teague/Korver/Wiggins or Parker/Millsap/Horford
Schroeder/Lou Williams/Carroll/vet big/Bebe

is a much deadlier lineup IMO than

Teague/Korver/Wiggins or Parker/Horford/Asik
Schroeder/Lou Williams/Parsons/Carroll/vet big/Bebe

since that way you can have much more talent on the floor at any given point.

[parson]

We disagree philosophically. I see a small and weak team in need of a big, strong pivot.

Horford and Millsap will always have good numbers but get pushed around.

I trade Millsap for Asik and try to get as much to boot as possible, but I get a Center.

[azuresou1]

When I hear "big, strong pivot," I think Roy Hibbert or DeMarcus Cousins. I don't think guys who are complete stiffs on offense who can be safely ignored like Asik.

Again, to reiterate - we're an above-average defensive team and one of the best defensive rebounding teams. We also almost never foul. Our defensive 'woes,' if you can call them that, stem from giving up too many easy 3s. Asik doesn't address any of that. Why shore up something that is already a relative strength at the expense of something that we are average in (offense)?

Would I trade Millsap for a big, strong pivot? Every day of the week. Is Asik a big strong pivot? No.

[azuresou1]

Also, for what it's worth, if we do eventually get Wiggins or Parker, I'd rather have them play with big men who can catch passes and finish basic layups on a consistent basis so that they can become well-rounded players rather than giving up in frustration and hero-balling.

[MaceCase]

Reminds me of the Thunder feeling the need to get a Center so bad to compete with the Lakers and Spurs that they traded Jeff Green for Perkins despite already having both Ibaka and Collinson on the roster. Well, Perkins continues to be a member of all of their worst lineups and finds himself on the bench during key stretches in favor of, you guessed it, Ibaka and Collinson at the 5 with Durant at the 4. And that's a team that features multiple members of the top scorers list in their lineup at all times yet they still go out of their way to mitigate Perkins' presence in favor of more talented bigs.

[parson]

azure, we need a big on defense (and on the boards).

It's not all offense.