Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[mhd]

^ Okay, then give up Porter in the Lowry deal. Problem solved!

give up a potential all-star for a guy who'll be a free agent this summer...smart move lol

Look, nobody here has seen enough of Porter in a Wiz uniform to start with the "trade em" chants.

Realize that Webster has a serious history of injury and that Ariza is performing this way in a contract year. Be patient.

As for Lowry we could find 30mpg by having him be a backup for both Wall and Beal.

Porter is NEVER going to be an all-star level player (not with Lebron, George, and Melo sharing his position). He doesn't have the athleticism to be at that level. His best case scenerio a playmaking, less-defensive Trevor Ariza.

[LyricalRico]

While my remark was a bit tongue-in-cheek, mhd's larger deal where we also get Amir+pick does make a lot of sense IMO.

[rl25g]

Wiz Send: Nene, Porter, Vesley, Maynor, Rights to Satornasky
Wiz Receive: Johnson, Fields, Lowry, Novak

Boston Sends: Humphries
Boston Receive: Nene

Tor Sends: Lowry, Novak, Fields, Johnson
Receive: Humphries, Porter, Vesley, Maynor, Rights to Satornasky


Tor clears even more cap space for next offseason while receiving an asset in Porter who they could groom to use or trade for another piece.

Boston takes a risk on Nene with Rondo coming back.

Wiz get a whole lot deeper without sacrificing cap flexibility. We would only add about 1.6 million to our cap next year with the trade to pursue a large free agent or more than likely re-sign Gortat, Ariza and Lowry

[Dark Faze]

I just haven't seen enough from this team to lock anybody up for long term salary yet. We could potentially not make the playoffs with this current core and yet we want to move a high quality prospect in Porter in order to add depth?

Doesn't make sense. That's the sort of stuff that makes treadmill teams.

The Pacers had Granger at the three in 2010-2011 with Paul George who's rookie campaign ended with an unimpressive 7.8 ppg , 4rpg and 1 assist while missing 20 games that year. He also shot .30 percent from deep.

But oh, our situation is different because my god Paul Georges athleticism! He clearly was going to be a superstar.

Moral of the story is you just have to be patient until you know what you've got, and right now we don't have a clue.

And you never know when a desperate team might be willing to pay either--Ariza resigning isn't a given.

[mhd]

I just haven't seen enough from this team to lock anybody up for long term salary yet. We could potentially not make the playoffs with this current core and yet we want to move a high quality prospect in Porter in order to add depth?

Doesn't make sense. That's the sort of stuff that makes treadmill teams.

The Pacers had Granger at the three in 2010-2011 with Paul George who's rookie campaign ended with an unimpressive 7.8 ppg , 4rpg and 1 assist while missing 20 games that year. He also shot .30 percent from deep.

But oh, our situation is different because my god Paul Georges athleticism! He clearly was going to be a superstar.

Moral of the story is you just have to be patient until you know what you've got, and right now we don't have a clue.

And you never know when a desperate team might be willing to pay either--Ariza resigning isn't a given.

If Paul George were in last year's draft, he would have gone higher than Porter did. The 2010 draft had top talent like Wall, Favors, Cousins, Turner, Wes Johnson, Monroe, etc.

This past draft was considered the worst in terms of talent since 2000. Porter isn't anywhere near the talent level of George. George went to a small school and wasn't on the big stage. Athletcisim DOES matter. Otto Porter wouldn't even touch being a top 10 pick in this year's draft. Porter doesn't pass the eye test (for me), and he doesn't have an NBA body, and he doesn't fit any sort of need on this team. It was an idiotic pick from the start.

[verbal8]

Getting Lowry would be a dream. He's a better version of Jarrett Jack. My only reservation is that he makes a bit too much to come off the bench. Can we find 30 mpg for him? Also, losing Ariza is a bit worrisome in that we can't go small with Ariza at PF. It probably means we need to retain Singleton in a pinch.

How about Webster for Lowry? Webster's contract looks pretty good right now. And the Raptors just traded their starting SF. While Webster can be a key component on a good team, he is low usage enough he probably won't ruin a tank. If he can play with Wall, there is no reason he can't play 30+ minutes, especially with Webster sent out.

[Dark Faze]

I just haven't seen enough from this team to lock anybody up for long term salary yet. We could potentially not make the playoffs with this current core and yet we want to move a high quality prospect in Porter in order to add depth?

Doesn't make sense. That's the sort of stuff that makes treadmill teams.

The Pacers had Granger at the three in 2010-2011 with Paul George who's rookie campaign ended with an unimpressive 7.8 ppg , 4rpg and 1 assist while missing 20 games that year. He also shot .30 percent from deep.

But oh, our situation is different because my god Paul Georges athleticism! He clearly was going to be a superstar.

Moral of the story is you just have to be patient until you know what you've got, and right now we don't have a clue.

And you never know when a desperate team might be willing to pay either--Ariza resigning isn't a given.

If Paul George were in last year's draft, he would have gone higher than Porter did. The 2010 draft had top talent like Wall, Favors, Cousins, Turner, Wes Johnson, Monroe, etc.

This past draft was considered the worst in terms of talent since 2000. Porter isn't anywhere near the talent level of George. George went to a small school and wasn't on the big stage. Athletcisim DOES matter. Otto Porter wouldn't even touch being a top 10 pick in this year's draft. Porter doesn't pass the eye test (for me), and he doesn't have an NBA body, and he doesn't fit any sort of need on this team. It was an idiotic pick from the start.

Dude, you know you have no idea right ? Read the below:

Defensively, George is a mixed bag. On the one hand, he gets a ton of steals (2.7 per 40, pace adjusted) utilizing his extremely quick hands and his quick first step to get in the passing lanes. He's a very good rebounder for a wing (8.8 per 40 minutes, pace adjusted). He goes up strong and grabs the ball at its highest point.

On the other hand ... well he has the tools to become an elite defender (size, length, quick hands, great lateral quickness and terrific leaping ability). The problem is that he doesn't put forth the effort and takes plays off on defense. He comes out of his stance, doesn't rotate properly, and forgets about backside help, all of which points to a lack of focus on the defensive end.

WEAKNESSES:
•Ballhandling needs work
•Turnover prone
•Defensive effort
•Needs to add strength
•Inconsistent
•Doesn't always play hard
•Needs to polish his overall game
•Lacks experience
•Weak competition in College

And Paul wasn't even amazing athletically. People everywhere thought the kid would show up with a vert of 37 inches (ottos was 36). He could only bench press the weights 4 times to Ottos 9. Paul skipped the athletic testing because they were going to be just so so, that's the only reason you skip them.

Paul would have went higher in other drafts? LOL!!! 2010 is one of the worst drafts in many years. In an absolute best case scenario without the benefit of hindsight George would have went just two spots higher at 8th in 2013. Right after McLemore where KCP went and before Burke and McCollum.

[mhd]

I just haven't seen enough from this team to lock anybody up for long term salary yet. We could potentially not make the playoffs with this current core and yet we want to move a high quality prospect in Porter in order to add depth?

Doesn't make sense. That's the sort of stuff that makes treadmill teams.

The Pacers had Granger at the three in 2010-2011 with Paul George who's rookie campaign ended with an unimpressive 7.8 ppg , 4rpg and 1 assist while missing 20 games that year. He also shot .30 percent from deep.

But oh, our situation is different because my god Paul Georges athleticism! He clearly was going to be a superstar.

Moral of the story is you just have to be patient until you know what you've got, and right now we don't have a clue.

And you never know when a desperate team might be willing to pay either--Ariza resigning isn't a given.

If Paul George were in last year's draft, he would have gone higher than Porter did. The 2010 draft had top talent like Wall, Favors, Cousins, Turner, Wes Johnson, Monroe, etc.

This past draft was considered the worst in terms of talent since 2000. Porter isn't anywhere near the talent level of George. George went to a small school and wasn't on the big stage. Athletcisim DOES matter. Otto Porter wouldn't even touch being a top 10 pick in this year's draft. Porter doesn't pass the eye test (for me), and he doesn't have an NBA body, and he doesn't fit any sort of need on this team. It was an idiotic pick from the start.

Dude, you know you have no idea right ? Read the below:

Defensively, George is a mixed bag. On the one hand, he gets a ton of steals (2.7 per 40, pace adjusted) utilizing his extremely quick hands and his quick first step to get in the passing lanes. He's a very good rebounder for a wing (8.8 per 40 minutes, pace adjusted). He goes up strong and grabs the ball at its highest point.

On the other hand ... well he has the tools to become an elite defender (size, length, quick hands, great lateral quickness and terrific leaping ability). The problem is that he doesn't put forth the effort and takes plays off on defense. He comes out of his stance, doesn't rotate properly, and forgets about backside help, all of which points to a lack of focus on the defensive end.

WEAKNESSES:
•Ballhandling needs work
•Turnover prone
•Defensive effort
•Needs to add strength
•Inconsistent
•Doesn't always play hard
•Needs to polish his overall game
•Lacks experience
•Weak competition in College

And Paul wasn't even amazing athletically. People everywhere thought the kid would show up with a vert of 37 inches. He could only bench press the weights 4 times to Ottos 7. Paul skipped the athletic testing because they were going to be just so so, that's the only reason you skip them.

Paul would have went higher in other drafts? LOL!!! 2010 is one of the worst drafts in many years. In an absolute best case scenario without the benefit of hindsight George would have went just two spots higher at 8th in 2013. Right after McLemore where KCP went and before Burke and McCollum.

2010 is one of the worst drafts in years???

Guards: Wall, Bledsoe, Vasquez, Bradley,
Wings: George, Haywood, Turner, Pondexter
Bigs: Cousins, Favors, Monroe, Sanders, Davis, Patterson


That class is MUCH better than this past class was. Not a single big is anywhere near the talent level of Cousins, Favors, Sanders, and Monroe (maybe to a stretch Noel). There was no 2000 talk on that draft. This past class was routinely compared to the 2000 draft. Wall, George, and Cousins are top 5 in their positions in the NBA).

[LyricalRico]

Getting Lowry would be a dream. He's a better version of Jarrett Jack. My only reservation is that he makes a bit too much to come off the bench. Can we find 30 mpg for him? Also, losing Ariza is a bit worrisome in that we can't go small with Ariza at PF. It probably means we need to retain Singleton in a pinch.

How about Webster for Lowry? Webster's contract looks pretty good right now. And the Raptors just traded their starting SF. While Webster can be a key component on a good team, he is low usage enough he probably won't ruin a tank. If he can play with Wall, there is no reason he can't play 30+ minutes, especially with Webster sent out.

I don't think TOR wants to take on any salary, so I'm guessing they say no to Webster.

I still think Ariza for Lowry makes sense. From a Raptor tank perspective, I actually see Ariza and Webster as being pretty equal as guys that won't really help them win games. From a Wiz perspective, maybe we can also get a bit more out of it if we expand it to take back a bit more salary.

Ariza+Maynor+Booker for Lowry+Amir? Assuming Porter gives us anything, that pretty much solves our bench issues IMO.

[mhd]

Heck, Dat is probably the best draft guy on the board, and he constantly panned this past draft (even if Otto was one of his favs). Dat's relented on that prediction to an extent (he's posted that there are real troubling signs with Porter).


Again, I hope I'm wrong on Otto, but I'm not going to front and say there are not big red flags.

[nuposse04]

mhd rails against Porter (from a prospect standpoint) fairly irrationally but the 2010 draft class wasn't weak. Maybe at the time it was perceived weak off the top 5 but there are a lot of cornertone pieces in that draft class. porter might have graded better then George back then however.

Porter will prolly never be as good as Paul but I still think he can be a top 7ish SF in the NBA. I'd rather be patient with him then continue to do typical EG short sighted moves. There is a reason a lot of draft gurus had Porter in their top 5. I suspect his potential may not become evident however until years end, and into next season.

[nuposse04]

Heck, Dat is probably the best draft guy on the board, and he constantly panned this past draft (even if Otto was one of his favs). Dat's relented on that prediction to an extent (he's posted that there are real troubling signs with Porter).


Again, I hope I'm wrong on Otto, but I'm not going to front and say there are not big red flags.

The red flags you keep referring to are amendable though. 20 year olds can get stronger (his biggest issue probably). He's an average NBA athlete to me. But he has good instincts and superior length. Again not really worried there. So outside of a glaring need in strength, what red flags do you have legitimate gripe about? (and no i'm not talking about whether we should have taken noel, we should have but I'm just talkin bout Porter the prospect.)

[GeeWiz]

I just haven't seen enough from this team to lock anybody up for long term salary yet. We could potentially not make the playoffs with this current core and yet we want to move a high quality prospect in Porter in order to add depth?

Doesn't make sense. That's the sort of stuff that makes treadmill teams.

The Pacers had Granger at the three in 2010-2011 with Paul George who's rookie campaign ended with an unimpressive 7.8 ppg , 4rpg and 1 assist while missing 20 games that year. He also shot .30 percent from deep.

But oh, our situation is different because my god Paul Georges athleticism! He clearly was going to be a superstar.

Moral of the story is you just have to be patient until you know what you've got, and right now we don't have a clue.

And you never know when a desperate team might be willing to pay either--Ariza resigning isn't a given.

If Paul George were in last year's draft, he would have gone higher than Porter did. The 2010 draft had top talent like Wall, Favors, Cousins, Turner, Wes Johnson, Monroe, etc.

This past draft was considered the worst in terms of talent since 2000. Porter isn't anywhere near the talent level of George. George went to a small school and wasn't on the big stage. Athletcisim DOES matter. Otto Porter wouldn't even touch being a top 10 pick in this year's draft. Porter doesn't pass the eye test (for me), and he doesn't have an NBA body, and he doesn't fit any sort of need on this team. It was an idiotic pick from the start.

Weve seen one game from Otto. Enough with the 'eye test', because frankly, I couldn't give one **** what the 'eye test' says about Otto. All I know is that we have to at least give him a chance.

Oh, and a 6'9 athlete with Durant-like length sounds good to me.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[nate33]

Ariza+Maynor+Booker for Lowry+Amir? Assuming Porter gives us anything, that pretty much solves our bench issues IMO.

That would be awesome for us. Not sure we pry Amir away from Toronto quite so easily though.

[nate33]

Heck, Dat is probably the best draft guy on the board, and he constantly panned this past draft (even if Otto was one of his favs). Dat's relented on that prediction to an extent (he's posted that there are real troubling signs with Porter).


Again, I hope I'm wrong on Otto, but I'm not going to front and say there are not big red flags.

The red flags you keep referring to are amendable though. 20 year olds can get stronger (his biggest issue probably). He's an average NBA athlete to me. But he has good instincts and superior length. Again not really worried there. So outside of a glaring need in strength, what red flags do you have legitimate gripe about? (and no i'm not talking about whether we should have taken noel, we should have but I'm just talkin bout Porter the prospect.)

My concern about Porter is that he is so thin despite having pretty impressive upper body strength. Clearly, he has been working hard on his strength for a while since he could bench 185, 9 times in pre-draft workouts. But despite working on his strength, he is still distressingly thin and has no chance to hold his position against NBA athletes. He doesn't seem like he is the type who will ever "fill out" in his lower body. I really think that's going to limit him and it'll probably contribute to injuries.

[Ruzious]

Heck, Dat is probably the best draft guy on the board, and he constantly panned this past draft (even if Otto was one of his favs). Dat's relented on that prediction to an extent (he's posted that there are real troubling signs with Porter).


Again, I hope I'm wrong on Otto, but I'm not going to front and say there are not big red flags.

The red flags you keep referring to are amendable though. 20 year olds can get stronger (his biggest issue probably). He's an average NBA athlete to me. But he has good instincts and superior length. Again not really worried there. So outside of a glaring need in strength, what red flags do you have legitimate gripe about? (and no i'm not talking about whether we should have taken noel, we should have but I'm just talkin bout Porter the prospect.)

My concern about Porter is that he is so thin despite having pretty impressive upper body strength. Clearly, he has been working hard on his strength for a while since he could bench 185, 9 times in pre-draft workouts. But despite working on his strength, he is still distressingly thin and has no chance to hold his position against NBA athletes. He doesn't seem like he is the type who will ever "fill out" in his lower body. I really think that's going to limit him and it'll probably contribute to injuries.

Tayshawn Prince was skinnier at the same age. He'll be fine for a 3. If you had visions of him playing the 4, that was a mistake.

[LongLiveIverson]

Sixers fan here, I like to keep up with the Wizards and Kings because I'm a huge Wall and Cousins supporter.
Hate your GM but like the makeup of your team, reminds me of Blazers last year. Quality starters playing too many mins. Once you solidify your bench you guys will be a force

First trade I would do is Seraphin, Chris Singleton for Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw
I actually saw this proposed on a Kings board.
Jimmer has no future in Sacramento/ Outlaw is surprisingly playing pretty good ball but is useless as a stretch 4 type since Gay, Derrick Williams are in the fold, along with Carl Landry coming back from injury. He could be an underrated pickup.

Some other names i saw pop up.. I dont see Thunder letting go of Steven Adams.
Don't agree in getting Jarrett Jacks inflated deal. I feel alot of his success was attributed to Monte Williams PG friendly offense (see Cp3/Vasquez) and then GS run and gun mentality. You can get a backup G for cheap (Jimmer Trade)

Next I see Moving Porter to Pistons or Sixers. Monroe for Porter makes sense for both teams. But at the end of the season regardless your going to be faced with overpaying Monroe. Max contract or not

Sixers make more sense to me. Spencer Hawes is a near perfect fit with Wall in the pick and roll game. And Thad Young is a 6th man candidate that every contending team needs.
I used to Hate on Hawes more than anyone and its mind boggling for me to type this but I actually think he gives you the same production as Monroe at 2/3 the potential price. Our coach has been utilizing him perfectly. You can run an offense through him since he is a great passer and he is honest too god one of our best outside shooters. I can't even say hes padding his stats on a bad team because hes had perhaps the biggest impact on our wins more than anyone besides Turner.

Porter, Travis Outlaw, Jan Vesely, Trevor Booker For Hawes, Thad Young and Lorenzo Brown (Waive him idk)

C. Gortat/Hawes
F. Nene/Thad Young/Harrington
F. Ariza/Webster
G. Beal/Temple/Jimmer
G. Wall/Jimmer/Maynor

This makes your team scary deep.
Your only weak link looks to be the backup 2, but Jimmer can take the backup mins behind Wall and Beal assuming they both are at 38+. Webster can play the 2 for stretches and Thad can slide down to the 3 to make mins for Harrington if needed. This gives you alot of versatility on your roster to adjust for different matchups

Only downside is Hawes and Gorats deals both expire so you might have to pick between one or the other if you want to make a big run in 2015.

Thoughts?

[verbal8]

First trade I would do is Seraphin, Chris Singleton for Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw
I actually saw this proposed on a Kings board.
Jimmer has no future in Sacramento/ Outlaw is surprisingly playing pretty good ball but is useless as a stretch 4 type since Gay, Derrick Williams are in the fold, along with Carl Landry coming back from injury. He could be an underrated pickup.

Thoughts?

I would like to get Outlaw, but I don't see him going that cheap.

I think Hawes would be a good addition, however I think Porter would be too steep a price. I could see a 3 way with Ariza going out from the Wizards being about even. The problem is finding a team that wants/needs Ariza and has something that interests Philly.

[TGW]

Thoughts? Hell yea to all of those ideas LLI. Those trades would instantly make the Wizards into a legitimate post-season threat. However, I can't see Philly doing that trade...Hawes and Young have been very productive for them. I think they could get more.

[LongLiveIverson]

Thoughts? Hell yea to all of those ideas LLI. Those trades would instantly make the Wizards into a legitimate post-season threat. However, I can't see Philly doing that trade...Hawes and Young have been very productive for them. I think they could get more.

TBH I would love it as a Sixers fan.
Trading Hawes and Thad would be detremental to our win Cause and might even allow us to Keep Turner while continuing the Tank.