Is Kentavious Caldwell-Pope a DUD?

[Phenomenonsense]

The people who talk about shooting on this board are fuggin hilariously biased! By what, I don't know, but very biased. "KCP just needs time to adjust to NBA shot, even though he's shooting 36.6%/29.6%/80.0% on the NBA level, but someone who is also a rookie and obviously does NOT need to adjust his shot to the NBA level and who is shooting 40.8%/32.4%/67.1% already can't possibly improve and will, in fact, decline."

[Clarity]

'KCP's athleticism, defensive skill, shooting ability and work ethic will make him a top 5-10 SG by his 3rd or 4th year. patience people"

KCP has incredibly limited upside as a SG. He doesn't create his own shots. He doesn't create for others. His ball handling skills are very low. If he can start knocking down shots, his D will make him a solid player ala Tony Allen. He's never going to be in the "next group" below the superstars though.

And, really, there is nothing wrong with grabbing a potentially solid 3 and D type guy in weak draft. His game certainly can translate to contributing on a championship level team.

I think this is a bit over-reactive but some factual notes for sure.

I got some flack last June for calling KCP mostly a catch & shoot guy. His shot creation goes about as far as a 2 dribble pull up. His ball handling isnt elite either which limits his creating ability but hes not Tony Allen level though.

However his defense is very good, we knew that & hes been great for us. Hes also a very good shooter, his shot has been shaky at times but history says he will be very good in time.

His limited abilities on offense arent really a knock. Rip Hamilton had some of the same limitations & was amazing for us, for a long time. Just have to use KCP properly. A Rip type of 2 actually works well next to a ball dominant PG like Jennings or Chauncey. I'm actually quite excited to see a Chauncey/KCP backcourt get a little run.

[sc8581]

The people who talk about shooting on this board are fuggin hilariously biased! By what, I don't know, but very biased. "KCP just needs time to adjust to NBA shot, even though he's shooting 36.6%/29.6%/80.0% on the NBA level, but someone who is also a rookie and obviously does NOT need to adjust his shot to the NBA level and who is shooting 40.8%/32.4%/67.1% already can't possibly improve and will, in fact, decline."

Not that I'm supporting such idiocy but MCW started off on fire and has been simply atrocious ever since so if he continues at his current pace he will end up with roughly the same percentages KCP is at now. KCP started off worse than any of us could have imagined but has been hitting his shots for the most part over the last 8 games I believe so maybe they believe he's on the way up. The only thing I really take from all of this is that if KCP took as many shots every game as MCW he would either start to get into a better flow and progress faster or completely fall apart along with our hopes of him being a big part of our future. I want him to get more shots and even some ISOs but I definitely don't want him taking over 15 shots per game like MCW.

[CoreyGallagher]

That was not mentioned in the post I was referring to. It was stated he has a natural advantage, like that's all that matters, I was just merely pointing out that doesn't put him on a different tier

I'm expanding, princeofpalace mentioned his height as being an advantage, you then said, "Your literally saying he has a advantage against westbrook, Paul, Parker, wall etc.", which his height does give him an advantage against, you even subsequently acknowledge this fact. Choose your terminology or phrasing better, your obscurity is not my misinterpretation.

See Bradley Beal, the point of my statement was KCP historically has been a good shooter, and not only that, a good shooter on a team with no other help(NCAA), history would dictate that he's a better than what the stats are saying. A serious question, when has historically poor shooter come to the nba and become a great shooter for a entire season?

See Bradley Beal, what? My inquiry was hypothetical because of how ridiculous that statement was, obviously rookies can improve their shooting (%) as the season progresses. Since we're ignoring everything prior to college apparently KCP actually has not been a historically good shooter, he shot 41.5% and 34% from deep in his 2 seasons in college and hasn't started out well in the NBA either, where is the history that you're referring to? Regardless, the rest of your post would be legitimate if you weren't ignoring MCW's history of being a better shooter than he had shown in his sophomore season at Syracuse, in fact his freshmen season while playing limited minutes he shot a respectable 43.1% and 38% from deep, prior to that he did shoot well in high school as cited previously, you're claiming that point to be regurgitated by princeofpalace although that does not somehow void the fact. Your question has nothing to do with what I had said, I never said MCW is a great shooter nor do I expect him to become a great shooter this season only that he could improve his shooting (%).

My point of my post is that MCW is referred to as some sort of player that's on this different tier than all the other players. and i was just pointing out he's still not consistent that would put him on the different tier. imo. Your entering a argument and dissecting my post without looking at what i'm responding too ie the context. Also that stat line isn't nearly as impressive when you consider the inefficiency of it, which you conveniently forgot to mention

He's consistent in really stuffing the stat sheet which ultimately makes him efficient, just not specifically in scoring. How did I not mention his inefficiency? I mentioned his points relative to his shots and his turnovers, he wasn't that inefficient otherwise, you must not understand that efficiency is not dependent on scoring. His Efficiency Rating is the 44th highest in the entire NBA even with his shooting woes.

Again, you would understand my post if you understood context. The context was that KCP by no means can catch mcw in the ROY race. My point was the KCP is already (imo) a elite defender and getting better and his main problem is offense, which if you look at his shot selection will come around. So my question is why can't KCP at least be in contention? Also KCP is normally matched up with the opposing teams best guard so position played doesn't really matter, and smith has been lack luster defensively, and love to see your argument on how moose is a great defender and Dre until recently hasn't been playing well.

I'm not ignoring the stats you posted, but merely struggle understanding what they mean, if you could elaborate on those stats, i might be able to have a rebuttal, or might have to agree with your point.

While i appreciate your sound response, please look at context

KCP does seem to be on his way to becoming an elite defender, however I don't believe that he is there quite yet. Well, here is a comparison of their defensive statistics...

MCW:


KCP:


KCP is quite good, just comparing the graphs MCW allows higher shooting percentages however significantly lower overall ppp (points per possession) likely due to his ability to force turnovers. As for the statistics I listed in my last post, Defensive Win Shares is a statistic you can view on NBA-Reference, it projects how many wins a player is responsible for on defense, here is the Win Shares formula - http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allows per 100 possessions that he individually faced while on the court, formula can be found here - http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

I was not saying Josh Smith, Greg Monroe, or Andre Drummond are great defenders only that collectively they're better defensively than Evan Turner, Thad Young, and Spencer Hawes are imo. Again, I am a fan of KCP, don't misunderstand my comparing the two and being critical as my not being a fan.

[Phenomenonsense]

MCW has been more up and down in percentages than really good then really bad. Ordered by most recent game:

.579
.333
.308
.429
.521
.500
.200
.182
.529
.308
.381
.235
.455
.400
.600

So he has had 8 .400+ and 7 sub .400 shooting nights. And, something I always take into consideration is "did they at least get as many points as shots" including 3s and getting to the line so I look at MCW's bad shooting nights and noticed he has gotten 3/7 games of getting at least as many points as shots. I'm not bashing KCP's shot as I think it will come around, but I also think I was right when I said that MCW's shot form LOOKED good to me, and that I thought he would be fine in the NBA. MCW isn't there, and isn't what he can be, but he has shown potential for what he can be consistently and that is what he has done in those good games. I just happen to think he'll make it.

[sc8581]

If that was directed at me I was referring more to his 3-point shooting when I said he started off on fire and was then atrocious, he started out 15-36 for 42% in his first 7 games and then 7-30 for 23% in his last 8. I don't know where to go to look at a shot chart for him so..