The stigma of the "Max" contract

[Warspite]

Monroes 14.5 mil is I believe the avg so he would be making that in his 2/3 yr. So his starting salary would be less than 13 mil. So again if your interested in retaining Monroe for 12mil but not max then your argueing over about 400k.

With a max deal Monroe still would make less than Smith for half his contract.


However IMHO i dont think this is about $$$$ but more about fans wanting to trade away Monroe so they can move Smith to PF. if you dont sign Monroe you are still going to have to spend 25 mil next summer. So does that mean your ok with Stuckey making 12 mil or Melo being offered 17mil?

[sc8581]

Is Lamarcus Aldridge still far from a great player or nah?

KG in his prime was great, LMA is not great.

[sc8581]

I don't understand how people are happy about signing a 28-year-old Josh Smith to four years, $13.5M/yr, but are upset over potentially giving a 24-year-old Moose four years, $12M/yr. It's absolutely ridiculous to me. Almost as bad as the quotes in Clarity's signature.

Who was happy about signing Smith?
Moose will get more than 4yrs $48M but I wouldn't give him that either
Get a clue and stop riding peoples jock kid

[Pharaoh]

sc8581: I don't think stickandmove needs to get a clue.

A lot of people are just mis-informed when it comes to Monroe's max contract. People also assume that Joe is just going to bid against himself (like he usually does).

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

Before anyone claims that a team won't make a reasonable offer because we'd have 7 days to match and they don't want to risk missing out on free agents... that is no longer true. The time frame has been reduced to 3 days!

Which teams will have enough cap space to make Monroe a max or near Max offer?

If we're gonna discuss this thing then it's only fair we put all cards on the table

[rmfc]

Monroes 14.5 mil is I believe the avg so he would be making that in his 2/3 yr. So his starting salary would be less than 13 mil. So again if your interested in retaining Monroe for 12mil but not max then your argueing over about 400k.

With a max deal Monroe still would make less than Smith for half his contract.


However IMHO i dont think this is about $$$$ but more about fans wanting to trade away Monroe so they can move Smith to PF. if you dont sign Monroe you are still going to have to spend 25 mil next summer. So does that mean your ok with Stuckey making 12 mil or Melo being offered 17mil?

Why would Stuckey still be here?

[Clarity]

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

This is the most likely scenario. Multiple teams will make max offers for Monroe. Us matching will save us some money. Indy did the same thing with Hibbert.

Why would Stuckey still be here?

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

[sc8581]

sc8581: I don't think stickandmove needs to get a clue.

A lot of people are just mis-informed when it comes to Monroe's max contract. People also assume that Joe is just going to bid against himself (like he usually does).

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

Before anyone claims that a team won't make a reasonable offer because we'd have 7 days to match and they don't want to risk missing out on free agents... that is no longer true. The time frame has been reduced to 3 days!

Which teams will have enough cap space to make Monroe a max or near Max offer?

If we're gonna discuss this thing then it's only fair we put all cards on the table

That might be a better discussion after the trade deadline. You also have to take into account that Monroe may not be happy here, not winning, playing out of position, not getting as many touches etc... If he wants to go I don't think he's the type of player you sign and force to stay, he's not good enough for that, so you basically shop him as a free agent while he and his agent do the same. There are a lot of variable with this situation but I do think he gets offered a max or close to max deal and I just don't see how it makes sense for us to match it and bring him back. Sign & trades work out great sometimes but I think it makes more basketball sense to move him before the deadline.

[rmfc]

Why would Stuckey still be here?

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

And....???
You are saying that as if it's a good thing.

Seems to me that we need to improve our roster quite a bit and not just be stuck with Stuckey.

[Clarity]

Why would Stuckey still be here?

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

And....???
You are saying that as if it's a good thing.

Seems to me that we need to improve our roster quite a bit and not just be stuck with Stuckey.

the way he has played as our 6th man this year, we could do light years worse than Stuckey.

Our team isnt really a talent thing, more so a bball IQ thing.

[rmfc]

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

And....???
You are saying that as if it's a good thing.

Seems to me that we need to improve our roster quite a bit and not just be stuck with Stuckey.

the way he has played as our 6th man this year, we could do light years worse than Stuckey.

Our team isnt really a talent thing, more so a bball IQ thing.

Ability to move without the ball & get open + ability to consistently take and make open jumpers ==>> Talent, offensive awareness.

Ability to lock - down any above average offensive player ==> talent, skill, willingness, defensive awareness.

Seems like the team is lacking in both departments (talent & IQ).

I would worry about fixing the starting lineup rather than locking up a wildly inconsistent, always dinged up ...6th man.

[Warspite]

Why would Stuckey still be here?

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

And....???
You are saying that as if it's a good thing.

Seems to me that we need to improve our roster quite a bit and not just be stuck with Stuckey.

Thats the big problem. The Pistons are 22-25 mil under the cap and 2 of the top 10 FAs are Monroe and Stuckey. in fact Monroe is a top5 FA. If a team wants to upgrade its roster Monroe and Stuckey are 2 of the big ticket FAs that you can sign. The CBA has a min salary cap as well so Dumars will have to spend 20 mil in the offseason on FAs, Monroe is the #1 bigman FA and Stuckey is the #2 SG FA. So again how do you upgrade the roster when the best 2014 FAs are already on your team? Unless you want to go for Melo, LBJ, Wade, Bosh there realy isnt anyone thats on the level of Monroe/Stuckey.

Stuckey might be the best FA wing player that we can sign. Monroe is the best bigman that any team can sign.


lets look at 2014 FA and hypotheticly go through the scenario of letting Monroe and Stuckey walk.

You want to pay Gordon Hayward the same contract that you say Monroe isnt worth?
Loul Deng wants Monroes max.
Granger wants Monroe money to leave.
Melo will get the vet max so hes 50% more than Monroe. If you get Melo then Stuckey is replaced by a vet min or 2nd rder (Keith Appling)


In Conclussion:

The best FAs are ours so we either we pay our own FAs or we rebuild and start tanking again. There is no 8mil a yr SF who is going to make us better than the Pacers or Heat. Thats why Dumars went after Smith to begin with. There simply isnt any talent currently at the SF position. King, Dantley, Aguirre, English, Nique, Short, Worthy, Marques Johnson, Theus and Tripuka are not walking through that door. The era of the SF is over.

Yet both Monroe and Stuckey and will be signed by July 7th by someone.

[StickAndMove]

I don't understand how people are happy about signing a 28-year-old Josh Smith to four years, $13.5M/yr, but are upset over potentially giving a 24-year-old Moose four years, $12M/yr. It's absolutely ridiculous to me. Almost as bad as the quotes in Clarity's signature.

Who was happy about signing Smith?
Moose will get more than 4yrs $48M but I wouldn't give him that either
Get a clue and stop riding peoples jock kid

As for the condescending comments, I'm just gonna pass. That's not worth my time.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1236230
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1242323

Here are a couple threads, providing many examples of various posters suggesting the Pistons sign Josh Smith.

If the Pistons let Moose hit RFA, he will get approx. 4 yrs, $62M. That's the max another team can offer. The Pistons will then have the ability to match.

[DocRI]

There simply isnt any talent currently at the SF position. King, Dantley, Aguirre, English, Nique, Short, Worthy, Marques Johnson, Theus and Tripuka are not walking through that door. The era of the SF is over.

HOLY CRAP, a Purvis Short reference! Flashbacks to that insanely high-arcing shot! Thanks for making my evening, Warspite!

And by the way, that's gotta be the best company Purvis Short and Kelly Tripuka have EVER been put in (mentioned alongside HOFers like King, Nique, Worthy, etc.).

[Clarity]

Ability to move without the ball & get open + ability to consistently take and make open jumpers ==>> Talent, offensive awareness.

Ability to lock - down any above average offensive player ==> talent, skill, willingness, defensive awareness.

Seems like the team is lacking in both departments (talent & IQ).

I would worry about fixing the starting lineup rather than locking up a wildly inconsistent, always dinged up ...6th man.

Im with you on our needs but what options do we have aside from the 2 guard position where KCP is a high pick we invested in?

Joe locked us in with Josh & Jennings, they are what they are.

"Wildly inconsistent" is the exact opposite of what Stuckey has been this year. "Always dinged up" is also inaccurate as he has played 85% of his games each year he has been in the NBA.

With our starting deficiencies that we are kind of stuck with, id say a consistent 6th man like Stuckey has been this year is a huge need.

[Hotmayo]

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

This is the most likely scenario. Multiple teams will make max offers for Monroe. Us matching will save us some money. Indy did the same thing with Hibbert.

Why would Stuckey still be here?

because hes been our 2nd best player all year?

All year? Lol

[Pharaoh]

sc8581: I don't think stickandmove needs to get a clue.

A lot of people are just mis-informed when it comes to Monroe's max contract. People also assume that Joe is just going to bid against himself (like he usually does).

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

Before anyone claims that a team won't make a reasonable offer because we'd have 7 days to match and they don't want to risk missing out on free agents... that is no longer true. The time frame has been reduced to 3 days!

Which teams will have enough cap space to make Monroe a max or near Max offer?

If we're gonna discuss this thing then it's only fair we put all cards on the table

That might be a better discussion after the trade deadline. You also have to take into account that Monroe may not be happy here, not winning, playing out of position, not getting as many touches etc... If he wants to go I don't think he's the type of player you sign and force to stay, he's not good enough for that, so you basically shop him as a free agent while he and his agent do the same. There are a lot of variable with this situation but I do think he gets offered a max or close to max deal and I just don't see how it makes sense for us to match it and bring him back. Sign & trades work out great sometimes but I think it makes more basketball sense to move him before the deadline.

You don't see any sense in matching a "max" offer sheet for a 24 year old big man? That worries me!

IMO if we're not contending then we need to be using whatever assets we have to acquire players that will make us a contender.

Monroe is an extremely valued asset, even IF he signed a "max" offer sheet elsewhere and we matched it.

I guess at the end of the day it all depends on how you view Monroe.

[sc8581]

sc8581: I don't think stickandmove needs to get a clue.

A lot of people are just mis-informed when it comes to Monroe's max contract. People also assume that Joe is just going to bid against himself (like he usually does).

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

Before anyone claims that a team won't make a reasonable offer because we'd have 7 days to match and they don't want to risk missing out on free agents... that is no longer true. The time frame has been reduced to 3 days!

Which teams will have enough cap space to make Monroe a max or near Max offer?

If we're gonna discuss this thing then it's only fair we put all cards on the table

That might be a better discussion after the trade deadline. You also have to take into account that Monroe may not be happy here, not winning, playing out of position, not getting as many touches etc... If he wants to go I don't think he's the type of player you sign and force to stay, he's not good enough for that, so you basically shop him as a free agent while he and his agent do the same. There are a lot of variable with this situation but I do think he gets offered a max or close to max deal and I just don't see how it makes sense for us to match it and bring him back. Sign & trades work out great sometimes but I think it makes more basketball sense to move him before the deadline.

You don't see any sense in matching a "max" offer sheet for a 24 year old big man? That worries me!

IMO if we're not contending then we need to be using whatever assets we have to acquire players that will make us a contender.

Monroe is an extremely valued asset, even IF he signed a "max" offer sheet elsewhere and we matched it.

I guess at the end of the day it all depends on how you view Monroe.

Exactly, so trade him now for something better than what we would likely receive in a s&t.

[DetroitDon15]

sc8581: I don't think stickandmove needs to get a clue.

A lot of people are just mis-informed when it comes to Monroe's max contract. People also assume that Joe is just going to bid against himself (like he usually does).

Has anyone considered a scenario where Monroe actually signs an offer sheet with another team? What's the max he could sign for in that scenario? Would Monroe do that?

Before anyone claims that a team won't make a reasonable offer because we'd have 7 days to match and they don't want to risk missing out on free agents... that is no longer true. The time frame has been reduced to 3 days!

Which teams will have enough cap space to make Monroe a max or near Max offer?

If we're gonna discuss this thing then it's only fair we put all cards on the table

That might be a better discussion after the trade deadline. You also have to take into account that Monroe may not be happy here, not winning, playing out of position, not getting as many touches etc... If he wants to go I don't think he's the type of player you sign and force to stay, he's not good enough for that, so you basically shop him as a free agent while he and his agent do the same. There are a lot of variable with this situation but I do think he gets offered a max or close to max deal and I just don't see how it makes sense for us to match it and bring him back. Sign & trades work out great sometimes but I think it makes more basketball sense to move him before the deadline.

You don't see any sense in matching a "max" offer sheet for a 24 year old big man? That worries me!

IMO if we're not contending then we need to be using whatever assets we have to acquire players that will make us a contender.

Monroe is an extremely valued asset, even IF he signed a "max" offer sheet elsewhere and we matched it.

I guess at the end of the day it all depends on how you view Monroe.

I think this is less about Monroe and a lot more about Drummond. We can't have Drummond and Monroe on max deals with Smith making 14 mil. Just doesn't work. Hell this line-up doesn't work now.

[Warspite]

Your timing is wrong. Smith will be gone when Drummond gets his extension. Its not about paying 3 guys its about paying 2 guys.

The starting SF will come from trading Smith, 2014 FA or the 2015 draft.


So many of you guys appear to love Middleton. Offer him a nice contract and bring him back next yr.

[MrBigShot]

Based on what I've seen so far, I would rather have Monroe/Drummond as our PF/C combination than Smith/Drummond. Obviously Smith at the 3 isn't going to work...and resigning Moose and having 2 PFs getting paid upwards of 14 mil isn't really a good thing.

My ideal scenario would be for Smith to get traded instead, and then resign Monroe. Perhaps Joe D should contact Billy King...Brooklyn is looking pretty desperate and it seems like Prokhorov is willing to take on any contract.