Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

[Tave]

Wow, Wiggins really showing off his range yesterday. I think all 4 of those threes were from 25 feet or further.

LOL @ "real basketball skills."

[SlowPaced]

Wiggins played through illness for sometime, he's now healthy and he had a fantastic game. He's becoming underrated because of his alleged overratedness. This guy is still potentially the new face of the league.

[Big_C_KU]

Wiggins form on his perimeter shot has been better and much more consistent the last 2 games. The more consistency does seem to come when he's focusing more. Just waiting for the game where he puts it all together from the tip.

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[sikma42]

Wiggins played through illness for sometime, he's now healthy and he had a fantastic game. He's becoming underrated because of his alleged overratedness. This guy is still potentially the new face of the league.

this. the guy is a hell of a prospect. He still has some holes but he has the talent to fill them. One good thing is that he has shown the ability to turn it up in clutch situations. He could be more aggressive early but those late game 3s were big time.

[PaperLantern]

Wiggins looked fantastic last night. Not only was he knocking down his jump shots when his team absolutely needed him to, he was a force on the defensive side. Watch the dude play on ball defense; his arms are long enough that he can play a little loose so that nobody blows by him and still be able to jump up and affect their shot if they pull up for a quick one. This is exactly how he shut down Jabari Parker in the second half of the Kansas/Duke game.

That being said, I'm still not sure how well Wiggins fits into Bill Self's system.

Obviously in a draft with this many must have prospects, the top 5 or so teams are going to take the player who fits their plan the most, but I think most teams would still take Wiggins.

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[Okada]

Most of the Wiggins bashing in here sounds like people just trying to be contrarians, honestly. If you really think Aaron Gordon should be taken above Wiggins at this point, then you have no business talking about the draft.

[EddieJonesFan]

Wiggins still belongs in the top 3 discussion.

[bigboi]

Wiggins is the best prospect in this draft by far. He just needs to tell his teammates to stop shooting and needs to shoot the ball. He's too much of a nice guy, which is why Andre Drummond got passed up on by a good amount of teams

[Hendrix]

Just a point that I feel like mentioning.

In the games that he's 'taken over' at the end, he still really hasn't 'taken over' by creating in the half court. A lot of it seems to be him going coast to coast in transition (resulting in a positive result aka. free throw or finishing at the rim), or him hitting some threes (but rarely creating them).

To me that brings up 2 questions.

1) Can the guy 'create at will' in the half court like you expect from an all-star wing player? He may of taken over some of these games at the end, but I still really want to see him create more in the half court.

2) If the guy is capable of going coast to coast, and killing it in transition like he's shown in some of these late game attempts at heroics, why the heck is he not being utilized like that for the other 90% of the game? It seems like any time he can get off a lot of positive looks in transition, so why not do that more throughout the rest of the game? Is it Bill Self, or himself?

[Casey Jonas]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

[ManualRam]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

...with the durant part of that ceiling based on nothing in particular.

[PaperLantern]

Just a point that I feel like mentioning.

In the games that he's 'taken over' at the end, he still really hasn't 'taken over' by creating in the half court. A lot of it seems to be him going coast to coast in transition (resulting in a positive result aka. free throw or finishing at the rim), or him hitting some threes (but rarely creating them).

To me that brings up 2 questions.

1) Can the guy 'create at will' in the half court like you expect from an all-star wing player? He may of taken over some of these games at the end, but I still really want to see him create more in the half court.

I believe he can. He shows flashes of potential when it comes to creating his own shot. He needs to learn some more moves, but his go-to spin through the lane could be pretty damn unstoppable when he gets better at finishing. Another thing that is adversely affecting his game is his coach. That's not a knock on Bill Self--he's a fantastic coach--but his style isn't particularly suited to showcasing raw talent in the halfcourt game.

2) If the guy is capable of going coast to coast, and killing it in transition like he's shown in some of these late game attempts at heroics, why the heck is he not being utilized like that for the other 90% of the game? It seems like any time he can get off a lot of positive looks in transition, so why not do that more throughout the rest of the game? Is it Bill Self, or himself?

Neither Kansas nor any other team in the world is getting transition opportunities 90% of the game. When he's had a chance in transition, Wiggins has dominated. He gets to the basket, from the three point line, in two steps.

I posted this earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat it: His on ball defense is unbelievable because of his quickness and length. He does a great job of keeping his man in front of him because he's able to sag off and still be able to recover and affect a quick pull up jumper thanks do his arm length and explosive vertical.

[Casey Jonas]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

...with the durant part of that ceiling based on nothing in particular.

They do play the same position and have similar physiques being skinny and long...

And a huge part of his potential is based on his growth as a shooter.....

He might never shoot it like Durant, but if his last game is any indication...

He's going to be a tremendous scorer at the 3...

[Hendrix]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

I don't think he has it in him to be like Durant offensively. Durant can score any time he wants in a variety of ways. 30ppg on .600+ts% is no joke. Wiggins seems like he gets more of his points in an 'opportunist' manner (transition, putbacks, cuts, etc...). To get to 30ppg .600+ts% territory you need to be able to create some offense for yourself at an elite level, and I'm not sure he has that.


I think 20-25ppg on a high ts%, with all-NBA defense seems about right. A very valuable player, but one who isn't perfect (I don't see elite half court creating skills, or elite passing skills). I'm have a hard time thinking of a perfect comparison for that. He's not the passer that Pippen, or George was/is. Maybe like a SF version of Sidney Moncrief from a stats perspective? Meaning big time impact on the game due to putting up a very efficient 20ppg combined with amazing defense.

[Casey Jonas]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

I don't think he has it in him to be like Durant offensively. Durant can score any time he wants in a variety of ways. 30ppg on .600+ts% is no joke. Wiggins seems like he gets more of his points in an 'opportunist' manner (transition, putbacks, cuts, etc...). To get to 30ppg .600+ts% territory you need to be able to create some offense for yourself at an elite level, and I'm not sure he has that.


I think 20-25ppg on a high ts%, with all-NBA defense seems about right. A very valuable player, but one who isn't perfect (I don't see elite half court creating skills, or elite passing skills). I'm have a hard time thinking of a perfect comparison for that. He's not the passer that Pippen, or George was/is. Maybe like a SF version of Sidney Moncrief from a stats perspective? Meaning big time impact on the game due to putting up a very efficient 20ppg combined with amazing defense.

I agree mostly, but keep in mind I was talking about ultimate ceiling.

He's not a passer, but his physical gifts are such that he should be able to get to the rim at will in the half court. He literally can blow by anyone and get to the rim from the free throw line with one dribble...

His best comparison for me is Dr. J.

[Hendrix]

Neither Kansas nor any other team in the world is getting transition opportunities 90% of the game. When he's had a chance in transition, Wiggins has dominated. He gets to the basket, from the three point line, in two steps.
.

I'm not saying team's get transition opportunities 90% of the game.

I'm saying that in 'crunch' time he's seemed to look for transition opportunities much more frequently, and seen very positive results with it. But, for the majority of the game (the other 90%), he doesn't seem to look for transition opportunities as much. Is that due to himself, or the coach?

[ManualRam]

Wiggins is going to be a 2 way star. His ceiling is Durant with all-nba defence.

...with the durant part of that ceiling based on nothing in particular.

They do play the same position and have similar physiques being skinny and long...

And a huge part of his potential is based on his growth as a shooter.....

He might never shoot it like Durant, but if his last game is any indication...

He's going to be a tremendous scorer at the 3...

they both play on the wing and they're skinny. that's where the comparison ends. there is a pretty significant difference b/t wiggins' height and length and durant's

[PaperLantern]

Neither Kansas nor any other team in the world is getting transition opportunities 90% of the game. When he's had a chance in transition, Wiggins has dominated. He gets to the basket, from the three point line, in two steps.
.

I'm not saying team's get transition opportunities 90% of the game.

I'm saying that in 'crunch' time he's seemed to look for transition opportunities much more frequently, and seen very positive results with it. But, for the majority of the game (the other 90%), he doesn't seem to look for transition opportunities as much. Is that due to himself, or the coach?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If i had to guess I'd say it's probably a little bit of both. Self has a system that has worked for the last decade plus, and he probably drills it into these guys heads to stick to the system (lots of weave, lots of high-low passing, some pick and roll). Wiggins may just be holding back for the sake of his coach.

I'm trying to think of an example of past Kansas players limited by Self's system, but they haven't had many freakish athletes or potential superstars like this. Off the top of my head, Xavier Henry never really got a chance to showcase his potential in college.

So I can't really answer your question. I'd love to be at a Kansas practice and hear what Self says to Wiggins and whether he limits him at all.

[Hendrix]

I agree mostly, but keep in mind I was talking about ultimate ceiling.

I get that you mean ceiling, but still. That would put him in the conversation for 'GOAT'. I haven't really seen some kind of transcendent talent could be the best of all time.

He's not a passer, but his physical gifts are such that he should be able to get to the rim at will in the half court. He literally can blow by anyone and get to the rim from the free throw line with one dribble...

I honestly haven't seen him do enough of this to say that he can "blow by anyone". I think he may have the ability to do it in the future based on physical gifts, and seeing him do it the odd time. but a small % of the points I've seen him score have come from blowing by defenders in the half court.

His best comparison for me is Dr. J.

I think he can be a better defender, and shooter than Dr J. I dunno, exact comparisons are hard.

[ManualRam]

Neither Kansas nor any other team in the world is getting transition opportunities 90% of the game. When he's had a chance in transition, Wiggins has dominated. He gets to the basket, from the three point line, in two steps.
.

I'm not saying team's get transition opportunities 90% of the game.

I'm saying that in 'crunch' time he's seemed to look for transition opportunities much more frequently, and seen very positive results with it. But, for the majority of the game (the other 90%), he doesn't seem to look for transition opportunities as much. Is that due to himself, or the coach?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If i had to guess I'd say it's probably a little bit of both. Self has a system that has worked for the last decade plus, and he probably drills it into these guys heads to stick to the system (lots of weave, lots of high-low passing, some pick and roll). Wiggins may just be holding back for the sake of his coach.

I'm trying to think of an example of past Kansas players limited by Self's system, but they haven't had many freakish athletes or potential superstars like this. Off the top of my head, Xavier Henry never really got a chance to showcase his potential in college.

So I can't really answer your question. I'd love to be at a Kansas practice and hear what Self says to Wiggins and whether he limits him at all.

self has never had an issue with players running and trying to turn defense into early offense. if anything, self has pushed wiggins to be more aggressive since day one.