What's wrong with this team?

[Okada]

If I had been GM of this team over Grant's tenure, we would have a core of Kyrie Irving, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond, and Victor Oladipo (yes, those were the picks I argued for at the time of each draft). It's not that hard Grant.

That said, I like TT, and I haven't 'given up' on Waiters or Bennett, but the last two picks especially were practically inexplicable at the time and are even more so now.

I'd say this team's problems...may not really be anything mentioned in this thread. Granted, when this thread was made, the Cavs were 4-12 and have won 4 of their last 5 since then. I think the real 'problem' that hardly ever gets mentioned is just the simple fact that this is an extremely young team, that started the year with quite a few new rotation guys, under a new coaching staff, installing completely new stuff. Everything about that situation tells you we should've expected major, major inconsistency. That inconsistency coupled with some effort issues has, I believe, been the real 'problem' with this team. And seeing how well they've played lately, that seems to look more and more like the case.

[Dupp]

No one believes you would have drafted Kawhi. Nice try though.

[Okada]

Why not?

I was a huge Kawhi fan heading into the draft, and believed the class was a total **** show after the top 3 prospects (Kyrie, Williams, Kanter) and that there was no clear-cut choice. Some people like to rewrite the narrative as though Valanciunas was the next consensus prospect in that draft, but at the time, a lot of people felt the same way, that after the top 3 it was pretty much a free-for-all. Kyrie and Kawhi were my favorite players heading into the draft and the picks both fit in terms of value and position.

[BossHoggin]

If I had been GM of this team over Grant's tenure, we would have a core of Kyrie Irving, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond, and Victor Oladipo (yes, those were the picks I argued for at the time of each draft). It's not that hard Grant.

:lol:

[CLEbland]

That said, I like TT, and I haven't 'given up' on Waiters or Bennett, but the last two picks especially were practically inexplicable at the time and are even more so now.

How admirable not giving up on a 20 year old rookie 1/4 into the season and a second year player who just turned 22 yesterday playing for his second coach in two years

[Okada]

How admirable not giving up on a 20 year old rookie 1/4 into the season and a second year player who just turned 22 yesterday playing for his second coach in two years

Uh...ok then?

[burritoKURUMA]

If I had been GM of this team over Grant's tenure, we would have a core of Kyrie Irving, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond, and Victor Oladipo (yes, those were the picks I argued for at the time of each draft). It's not that hard Grant.

That said, I like TT, and I haven't 'given up' on Waiters or Bennett, but the last two picks especially were practically inexplicable at the time and are even more so now.

I'd say this team's problems...may not really be anything mentioned in this thread. Granted, when this thread was made, the Cavs were 4-12 and have won 4 of their last 5 since then. I think the real 'problem' that hardly ever gets mentioned is just the simple fact that this is an extremely young team, that started the year with quite a few new rotation guys, under a new coaching staff, installing completely new stuff. Everything about that situation tells you we should've expected major, major inconsistency. That inconsistency coupled with some effort issues has, I believe, been the real 'problem' with this team. And seeing how well they've played lately, that seems to look more and more like the case.

I like those picks, but the problem with everyone who chooses to re-write the Cavs past picks is that there is no guarantee those players would have been available.

Like, say you start with Kyrie and Leonard. Does a team with them still get the 4th pick in the draft? And then, assuming they do, is it actually likely that a Kyrie-Leonard-Drummond led team ends up with the 1st overall pick? I wouldn't bet on it.

[Okada]

Kawhi dropped to 15 and Drummond dropped to 9 (both inexplicable at the time). Yeah, that Oladipo pick probably doesn't happen then. But hey, maybe MCW instead lol (I did honestly argue for Kawhi at #4 at the time but I strongly believed MCW was going to be a bust so I at least whiffed on that one).

[tidho]

Kawhi dropped to 15 and Drummond dropped to 9 (both inexplicable at the time)...

inexplicable?....really?

While you may have been right about Kahhi none of the experts were projecting him all that high, and with Drummond everybody new at the time exactly why he dropped - he was high risk.
Now that Drummond looks to be panning out its a little silly to go back and pretend that risk didn't exist on draft night, but certainly a common practive in these forusm.

[Okada]

While you may have been right about Kahhi none of the experts were projecting him all that high, and with Drummond everybody new at the time exactly why he dropped - he was high risk.
Now that Drummond looks to be panning out its a little silly to go back and pretend that risk didn't exist on draft night, but certainly a common practive in these forusm.

I realize all of that, I just thought both opinions were inexplicable at the time either way. The Drummond 'risk' stuff was so excessive that it didn't even make sense and suddenly everyone forgot the fact that he was a young #1 HS prospect big man with freakish athleticism. I question the competence of anyone who bought so heavily into that stuff. With Kawhi, like I've said, that draft was a **** show after the top 3 prospects. That was the opinion at the time too. Kawhi wasn't getting projected 4th overall, you're right, but a lot of people including myself thought that that entire 4-15/20 range was really close in terms of the quality of the prospects. Hindsight is 20/20 but it definitely seems like that was the case with the way the guys in that range turned out. Experts may not have projected him that high, but a lot of experts also agreed that it was a pretty even playing field after the top 3.

[KuruptedCav]

To be fair, there were a good number of posters who thought we could retool and roll back then.

Most rational fans were on board with Kyrie (Dwill&Knight folks were annoying). Those with the long-term outlook wanted Kyrie and Jonas, others with a shorter term outlook thought Kyrie and Kawhi could get us the most talented player and fill biggest need. No one was looking at PF.

We thought a team of:

C: Varejao, Hollins
PF: Hickson, Jamison
SF: Leonard, Gee
SG: Davis, Gibson
PG: Irving, Sessions

Could have gotten us back to the playoffs, and we'd have a shot at Lebron. That team probably would have made it, lost, and played the mediocrity treadmill. Who knows.

[Boarder Patrol]

Lineups and rotations are terrible.

Jack | Irving | Waiters | Thompson | Bynum