Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

[Casey Jonas]

...with the durant part of that ceiling based on nothing in particular.

They do play the same position and have similar physiques being skinny and long...

And a huge part of his potential is based on his growth as a shooter.....

He might never shoot it like Durant, but if his last game is any indication...

He's going to be a tremendous scorer at the 3...

they both play on the wing and they're skinny. that's where the comparison ends. there is a pretty significant difference b/t wiggins' height and length and durant's

You're taking me too literally. He's not going to be exactly Durant, but being that type of scorer is within his potential, and I understand how good of a scorer Durant is. This isn't Joe Blow we're talking about... this is Andrew "been on the radar for #1 5 years already" Wiggins....

[Hendrix]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If i had to guess I'd say it's probably a little bit of both. Self has a system that has worked for the last decade plus, and he probably drills it into these guys heads to stick to the system (lots of weave, lots of high-low passing, some pick and roll). Wiggins may just be holding back for the sake of his coach.

I'm trying to think of an example of past Kansas players limited by Self's system, but they haven't had many freakish athletes or potential superstars like this. Off the top of my head, Xavier Henry never really got a chance to showcase his potential in college.

So I can't really answer your question. I'd love to be at a Kansas practice and hear what Self says to Wiggins and whether he limits him at all.

I would guess a "little bit of both" as well.

It seems like usually when he's forced more transition comes at points in the game where his team is down, and he needs to make something happen or they'll lose. Its almost like he's thinking "**** it, I need to make something happen", and in those moments he's been very effective hitting big 3's and making spectacular transition plays. But, if the team is up 8 points halfway through the first half (for example) it seems like he's just trying to fit into the system, and not really looking to 'make things happen'.

I mean, the plays at
8:45 left in 2nd half
:50 left in 2nd half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIOcJX_jryc

I feel like he is capable of doing that a lot more often.

[ManualRam]

They do play the same position and have similar physiques being skinny and long...

And a huge part of his potential is based on his growth as a shooter.....

He might never shoot it like Durant, but if his last game is any indication...

He's going to be a tremendous scorer at the 3...

they both play on the wing and they're skinny. that's where the comparison ends. there is a pretty significant difference b/t wiggins' height and length and durant's

You're taking me too literally. He's not going to be exactly Durant, but being that type of scorer is within his potential, and I understand how good of a scorer Durant is. This isn't Joe Blow we're talking about... this is Andrew "been on the radar for #1 5 years already" Wiggins....

well then why throw out the name durant as a ceiling then? they're not alike.
and i don't really care about the hype. forget about that and analyze him for what he is, not what he's supposed to be.

[Casey Jonas]

I agree mostly, but keep in mind I was talking about ultimate ceiling.

I get that you mean ceiling, but still. That would put him in the conversation for 'GOAT'. I haven't really seen some kind of transcendent talent could be the best of all time.

He's not a passer, but his physical gifts are such that he should be able to get to the rim at will in the half court. He literally can blow by anyone and get to the rim from the free throw line with one dribble...

I honestly haven't seen him do enough of this to say that he can "blow by anyone". I think he may have the ability to do it in the future based on physical gifts, and seeing him do it the odd time. but a small % of the points I've seen him score have come from blowing by defenders in the half court.

His best comparison for me is Dr. J.

I think he can be a better defender, and shooter than Dr J. I dunno, exact comparisons are hard.

Yup, which is why they should be taken with a grain of salt (ie my Durant comment)

[PaperLantern]

I'm not saying team's get transition opportunities 90% of the game.

I'm saying that in 'crunch' time he's seemed to look for transition opportunities much more frequently, and seen very positive results with it. But, for the majority of the game (the other 90%), he doesn't seem to look for transition opportunities as much. Is that due to himself, or the coach?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If i had to guess I'd say it's probably a little bit of both. Self has a system that has worked for the last decade plus, and he probably drills it into these guys heads to stick to the system (lots of weave, lots of high-low passing, some pick and roll). Wiggins may just be holding back for the sake of his coach.

I'm trying to think of an example of past Kansas players limited by Self's system, but they haven't had many freakish athletes or potential superstars like this. Off the top of my head, Xavier Henry never really got a chance to showcase his potential in college.

So I can't really answer your question. I'd love to be at a Kansas practice and hear what Self says to Wiggins and whether he limits him at all.

self has never had an issue with players running and trying to turn defense into early offense. if anything, self has pushed wiggins to be more aggressive since day one.

You're right, but Self doesn't want his players to force it. Being young, Wiggins probably has trouble walking that fine line deciding between making a great transition play and forcing something that isn't there.

[DayofMourning]

I mean, how can't he make it?

The top ranked high school basketball player in the country. 6'8" with outstanding athleticism, evidenced by McDonald's slam dunk title. Can really get after it on defense when he wants. A projected top two pick in the draft for sure despite his hot and cold temperament.

That's right folks!......Gerald Green!

[rockmanslim]

I'm not all that impressed yet. I don't see much shot creation from him in the halfcourt. He's at his best spotting up, or in transition. Harrison Barnes 2.0 maybe? Maybe a little more athletic version, but with similar ball handling limitations.

If the draft were today, he'd be a project, not the franchise savior he's been hyped up to be for the past 2 years or however long it's been. On the other hand, it's early and he has a lot of games left in the season. if he does in fact have it in his game, he needs to start flashing more ball handling ability, more shot creation ability, more aggression, anything to give Raptor fans hope.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMsuzqYZbbo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7er4NVe5_oc[/youtube]

[gcates]

Most of the Wiggins bashing in here sounds like people just trying to be contrarians, honestly. If you really think Aaron Gordon should be taken above Wiggins at this point, then you have no business talking about the draft.

For the record (if you were referring to me), I never said Aaron Gordon should go #1 or ahead of Parker/Randle/Wiggins/Exum/Embiid/Smart, just that I like him as a player and think he will be a heck of an addition to whatever franchise happens to draft him, although recent news may indicate he will stay in college and additional year and come out in 2014...so who knows?

[Dr Positivity]

Yea I'm hardly gaga about the 26 pt game. Need to see a lot more to call him a great 3pt prospect and everything else is hacks and transition. Right now of Wiggins Parker Randle I'd call Wiggins the best defensive prospect but the worst offensive

[Ruzious]

How about Rudy Gay with much better shot selection?

[sikma42]

People are really going overboard. Wiggins has a bunch of gifts that the others don't have. The way he explodes by people and finishes is something you don't see much HISTORICALLY. right now, people are just being contrarian. Just wait and watch this kids talent develop...

[Dr Positivity]

People are really going overboard. Wiggins has a bunch of gifts that the others don't have. The way he explodes by people and finishes is something you don't see much HISTORICALLY. right now, people are just being contrarian. Just wait and watch this kids talent develop...

Everyone agrees Wiggins is a great prospect, the question is how great. He's not a sure thing as a slasher bc of ballhandling concerns and isn't a sure thing as a shooter. Right now his style of play is more RJ than Lebron

It's nitpicking, but the goal is to harpoon Moby Dick in this draft so every weakness matters. An elite defender with high teens scoring is probably a bad pick at no 1 (not saying Wiggins will be that but it's in play). The team that gets number 1 absolutely has to draft a superstar, it's too golden an oppurtunity

[sikma42]

People are really going overboard. Wiggins has a bunch of gifts that the others don't have. The way he explodes by people and finishes is something you don't see much HISTORICALLY. right now, people are just being contrarian. Just wait and watch this kids talent develop...

Everyone agrees Wiggins is a great prospect, the question is how great. He's not a sure thing as a slasher bc of ballhandling concerns and isn't a sure thing as a shooter. Right now his style of play is more RJ than Lebron

It's nitpicking, but the goal is to harpoon Moby Dick in this draft so every weakness matters. An elite defender with high teens scoring is probably a bad pick at no 1 (not saying Wiggins will be that but it's in play). The team that gets number 1 absolutely has to draft a superstar, it's too golden an oppurtunity

Again, Wiggins has things that you just can't teach. He is going to be a star in the league. He is playing passive now and putting up great stats....wait until he grows into all the hype. I'm a big fan of Jabari and Embiid as well but the only person who I could see even thinking about taking over Wiggins is Embiid and that is a risk that could get a GM fired. Right now, Wiggins has showed enough to keep himself at #1 in my book. He just has too many tools.

[Hendrix]

I'm not all that impressed yet. I don't see much shot creation from him in the halfcourt. He's at his best spotting up, or in transition. Harrison Barnes 2.0 maybe? Maybe a little more athletic version, but with similar ball handling limitations.

If the draft were today, he'd be a project, not the franchise savior he's been hyped up to be for the past 2 years or however long it's been. On the other hand, it's early and he has a lot of games left in the season. if he does in fact have it in his game, he needs to start flashing more ball handling ability, more shot creation ability, more aggression, anything to give Raptor fans hope.
]

I do agree that I want to see more shot creation in the half court.

However, I think the thing he has going for him in that respect is a much more explosive first step than Barnes. Young Vince Carter didn't have the best handles either, but he could explode past defender with a crazy first step. It's hard to project what Wiggins will get to in terms of ball handeling, but I think if he can even develop a bit better handles, and change of direction moves then he could be fine in the half court due to being able to explode past defenders,and finish great at the rim.

[peZt]

Even in yesterdays 26pts performance all of his points came of 3s and buckets in transition.We all know he can do that, my concerns in his game are with his Ballhandling, Shot creation in half court, drive to the basket and he hasn't shown anything in that regard so far this season.
I don't even think he has a great first step to be honest, he really struggles beating his man of the dribble in the half court. He can't change direction and speed very well and drives in all straight lines. And his Ballhandling is quite frankly extremely bad.
At the moment I see more of a more athletic Harrison Barnes with worse Ball Handling in him than a potential superstar tbh.

[sikma42]

Even in yesterdays 26pts performance all of his points came of 3s and buckets in transition.We all know he can do that, my concerns in his game are with his Ballhandling, Shot creation in half court, drive to the basket and he hasn't shown anything in that regard so far this season.
I don't even think he has a great first step to be honest, he really struggles beating his man of the dribble in the half court. He can't change direction and speed very well and drives in all straight lines. And his Ballhandling is quite frankly extremely bad.
At the moment I see more of a more athletic Harrison Barnes with worse Ball Handling in him than a potential superstar tbh.

so he is an 18 year old kid with some holes in his game. Calling him a more athletic Harrison Barnes doesn't even mean anything to me because the difference in athleticism means everything. If Harrison Barnes woke up tomorrow with Wiggins athleticism he would be a superstar, a top 5 player in the NBA.

[Okada]

Wiggins has the talent to be whatever he wants to be.

[ManualRam]

wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

[snoopdogg88]

This is the nature of the beast the NBA created when they pushed the age limit.

Now for a full year, the masses get to nitpick and overanalyze the heck out of the major prospects while they act as sacrificial lambs in college


I'm not saying some of it isn't fair criticism, but I have a funny feeling a year or two from people will look back and wonder why the heck they were sooo critical of guys like Wiggins and Parker.

[sikma42]

wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

This is my problem with the criticism of Wiggins. His second step or third step is better than his first step. But that doesnt his first is "not impressive." For instance it is quicker than Lebron's was at the same age.