Rookie impressions thread: PRESEASON/REGULAR SEASON

[tranjSAIC]

MCW when healthy is the top rookie no doubt. I do think Oladipo will give him a run for his money. Both teams suck too so they will get the same amount of attention.

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False. The 76ers don't suck when MCW is playing. They are a below average to average team. The Jazz just flat out stink so I don't get too excited with Burke

No...all 3 teams suck, utah just sucks more than Orlando and 76ers.

[Brapman]

via Henry Abbot - ESPN

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

The Pistons' rookie hasn't gotten much attention this season, and rookie guards almost never have good defensive statistics.

But a quarter into the season, Caldwell-Pope looks like an exception.

The list of the NBA's top three-man defensive units so far this season are largely Pacers, as we'll discuss. At the time of this writing, nine of the top 25 are from Indiana, in fact. Which means players on 29 rosters are competing for the 16 remaining spots. So when I tell you that Caldwell-Pope is on the list five times himself, with a grab bag of Pistons ... well, something is up.

Worth noting: The Pistons, generally, aren't even good at D, ranking 20th in the league.

Dan Feldman and Rob Mahoney have both dug into this phenomenon recently. The gist is that the Pistons started the season terribly on defense, when Caldwell-Pope never played. They got a little better all in all, and then Chauncey Billups -- who has been terrible on defense at this age -- got hurt. So Caldwell-Pope earned his minutes by replacing a bad defender and while joining a lineup that was finding its feet.

He's also, to the naked eye, a wiry and active defender who gets around screens far more effectively than Billups or Rodney Stuckey.

Caldwell-Pope has played close to 500 minutes, during which time the Pistons have given up a stingy 96.9 points per 100 possessions.

When he has sat, Pistons are allowing 108.4. The difference is 11.5, at least some of which, you'd think, has to do with the fact that this rookie guard is living up to his predraft reputation as a committed defender.

[Johnlac1]

Because he generally plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Doesn't post up, can't knock down wide open midrange jumpshots, just runs around like Scrappy Do and gets occasional dunks and rebounds.

No, basically because he plays on a team whose best playmaker is McRoberts. Zeller usually doesn't play with McRoberts and like all other Bobcats players is often left to his own devices. While Zeller is no great outside shooter (and might never be), he can score in a structured offense. Something I rarely see when I watch Bobcat games. I still expect Zeller to take over from McRoberts by the end of the season.

You should watch more Bobcats games then. We have a pretty structured offense and Zeller still sucks pretty bad regardless. All he can do is drive and either dunk, throw up some junk, or get sent sprawling to the floor. Zeller wouldn't fit in anybody's offense b/c he doesn't have an NBA position. He's too light/weak to play in the post and he doesn't have stretch 4 skills. He's basically a slightly better version of Jan Vesely.

You were saying? He had 12 pts. 6 rbds., 2 assists, a block, and a steal in 15 minutes tonight. Why your coach sat him on the bench for most of the 2nd half is beyond me. McRoberts is a limited player. He's in the lineup because your guards are mostly unconscionable chuckers and McRoberts is the only starter who doesn't think about shooting as soon as he touches the ball. Zeller will be starting by next month.

[Eoghan]

No, basically because he plays on a team whose best playmaker is McRoberts. Zeller usually doesn't play with McRoberts and like all other Bobcats players is often left to his own devices. While Zeller is no great outside shooter (and might never be), he can score in a structured offense. Something I rarely see when I watch Bobcat games. I still expect Zeller to take over from McRoberts by the end of the season.

You should watch more Bobcats games then. We have a pretty structured offense and Zeller still sucks pretty bad regardless. All he can do is drive and either dunk, throw up some junk, or get sent sprawling to the floor. Zeller wouldn't fit in anybody's offense b/c he doesn't have an NBA position. He's too light/weak to play in the post and he doesn't have stretch 4 skills. He's basically a slightly better version of Jan Vesely.

You were saying? He had 12 pts. 6 rbds., 2 assists, a block, and a steal in 15 minutes tonight. Why your coach sat him on the bench for most of the 2nd half is beyond me. McRoberts is a limited player. He's in the lineup because your guards are mostly unconscionable chuckers and McRoberts is the only starter who doesn't think about shooting as soon as he touches the ball. Zeller will be starting by next month.

I'll take coach Clifford's basketball mind over yours, no offense. We would have lost that game regardless if Zeller played more. Beating up on the Magic's scrubs in a loss is nothing to gloat about. If the Magic had anything resembling a rim protector Zeller would have had his usual 5 points and 8 floor burns.

[H2tObes]

The 19 year old Atentokounmpo is probably the Bucks best player.

[Johnlac1]

You should watch more Bobcats games then. We have a pretty structured offense and Zeller still sucks pretty bad regardless. All he can do is drive and either dunk, throw up some junk, or get sent sprawling to the floor. Zeller wouldn't fit in anybody's offense b/c he doesn't have an NBA position. He's too light/weak to play in the post and he doesn't have stretch 4 skills. He's basically a slightly better version of Jan Vesely.

You were saying? He had 12 pts. 6 rbds., 2 assists, a block, and a steal in 15 minutes tonight. Why your coach sat him on the bench for most of the 2nd half is beyond me. McRoberts is a limited player. He's in the lineup because your guards are mostly unconscionable chuckers and McRoberts is the only starter who doesn't think about shooting as soon as he touches the ball. Zeller will be starting by next month.

I'll take coach Clifford's basketball mind over yours, no offense. We would have lost that game regardless if Zeller played more. Beating up on the Magic's scrubs in a loss is nothing to gloat about. If the Magic had anything resembling a rim protector Zeller would have had his usual 5 points and 8 floor burns.

Nothing to do with winning the game. I'm a Bucks fan, but don't hate you guys. Zeller was playing great and got rewarded with a seat on the bench for most of the second half. It's a mystery to me.

[Greek]

Its hard to not see that Giannis has the highest potential from this draft, and maybe i am little homer, but a player that tall that young doing what he does (check his last nights highlights) its very rear...

[B-easy]

At least Vesely has an established role as a rebounding/hustle guy off the bench. Dude has found a niche.

No he is not and he has not.

[T-Blazin1995]

Its hard to not see that Giannis has the highest potential from this draft, and maybe i am little homer, but a player that tall that young doing what he does (check his last nights highlights) its very rear...

He seems to be very similar to a young Nic Batum but Giannis has a higher ceiling IMO but we will have to see have far he takes his game first.

[Greek]

Its hard to not see that Giannis has the highest potential from this draft, and maybe i am little homer, but a player that tall that young doing what he does (check his last nights highlights) its very rear...

He seems to be very similar to a young Nic Batum but Giannis has a higher ceiling IMO but we will have to see have far he takes his game first.

I really dont see the similarities with Batum, other than their lanky frames, and being Europeans. Also Giannis is still growing.

[GREENE1148]

Its hard to not see that Giannis has the highest potential from this draft, and maybe i am little homer, but a player that tall that young doing what he does (check his last nights highlights) its very rear...

He seems to be very similar to a young Nic Batum but Giannis has a higher ceiling IMO but we will have to see have far he takes his game first.

I really dont see the similarities with Batum, other than their lanky frames, and being Europeans. Also Giannis is still growing.

Good passing, decent rebounding/defensive/scoring SF? Giannis needs to improve his jumper though.

[Greek]

He seems to be very similar to a young Nic Batum but Giannis has a higher ceiling IMO but we will have to see have far he takes his game first.

I really dont see the similarities with Batum, other than their lanky frames, and being Europeans. Also Giannis is still growing.

Good passing, decent rebounding/defensive/scoring SF? Giannis needs to improve his jumper though.

With the big deference that Giannis is more of a slasher with much much better handlers than shooter which Batum is.

My comparison is more perimeter oriented Odom, or Diaw of his Suns days.

[Johnlac1]

The 19 year old Atentokounmpo is probably the Bucks best player.

He's not our best player, but he has great potential and should be getting more minutes. Henson is probably the best all-around player. He has his bad games (SA), but he has some great games as well. Like the game against Chicago. I like the Bucks young front line. However, the backcourt is the worst in the league.

[schneiderjazz]

MCW when healthy is the top rookie no doubt. I do think Oladipo will give him a run for his money. Both teams suck too so they will get the same amount of attention.

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False. The 76ers don't suck when MCW is playing. They are a below average to average team. The Jazz just flat out stink so I don't get too excited with Burke

The Sixers have only two more victories than the Jazz in a much weaker conference. The Jazz are 4-8 when Burke is playing, compared to 1-11 when he isn't. He's averaging basically the same numbers as Oladipo in 3 less minutes per game and almost 3 times less turnovers per game. His FG% hasn't been great, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being rookie of the year.

[dautjazz]

MCW when healthy is the top rookie no doubt. I do think Oladipo will give him a run for his money. Both teams suck too so they will get the same amount of attention.

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False. The 76ers don't suck when MCW is playing. They are a below average to average team. The Jazz just flat out stink so I don't get too excited with Burke

The Sixers have only two more victories than the Jazz in a much weaker conference. The Jazz are 4-8 when Burke is playing, compared to 1-11 when he isn't. He's averaging basically the same numbers as Oladipo in 3 less minutes per game and almost 3 times less turnovers per game. His FG% hasn't been great, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being rookie of the year.

To be honest I would be very surprised for Burke to win. I don't know how many games MCW could miss and still win it, but he has been playing at an All-Star level and is far ahead. Burke has definitey caught up to Oladio. Stats wise I give the edge to Burke as he has higher all around stats, points, rebounds, assists, 3pt%, FT% and nearly 1/3 the amount of turnovers. Oladipo has the edge in FG%, steals and blocks, and from what I hear, defense in general. I do think Burke may be laying a bigger impact for his team than Oladipo, as the Jazz atleast are getting a few wins now with Burke, as they are 4-6 with him starting, and I think they would of won the last game vs the Kings if Favors wasn't out. Either way, MCW is in a class of his own, Burke and Oladipo are nearly tied, but I'd give Burke the edge.

[SOUL]

If he keeps his FG percentage up and goes to the line at a decent rate and has 5-8 assists a game for the next week or so I think I can put him top 2 as far as ROY numbers.

As far as a better player, I still think Oladipo is and will be better than Burke (I realize I'm a Magic fan saying this haha) - although Burke has really surprised me since I thought he would struggle way more than he has and he has been playing like a mini mini mini CP3 as of late.

Numbers can be skewy, I agree though. Oladipo disturbs a lot of guards and it's not going to show up on the stat sheet (besides steals/blocks) or ROY voting, he legit should have about 4-5 assists per game. I've never seen so many Magic players brick open dish and drives from Oladipo. It's the difference between his 2 assist games and 7 assist games.

Oladipo is still competing with a bloated backcourt of Nelson, Moore and Afflalo where every single one of these players love to get their shots up. I think the situation is infinitely more ripe to put up numbers in a Jazz or Philly uniform, and credit to MCW/Burke, they're starting to/have all year. I just need to see this for like a month or two from Burke so I know it's the real deal. He really underwhelmed me in summer league and earlier, but his shot is looking nice and he's going to the line more than i thought.

Regardless, and more important, I think every team's guard is just what they wanted so far in the season out of those 3, also including BMac and KCP.

[dautjazz]

Guess that's fair. I thought mcw might come down to earth, sob is doing so good. PER is such strange.stat, mcw has like a 2 per advantage on Burke, but his stats look much better.

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[Apollo64]

People think this was a sucky draft, 2000 level bad, i kinda disagree. I think it's filled with future good starters and *more* importantly future winners. If you remove Anthony Davis from the equation, i think 2013 is better than 2012 and has more depth.

Noel (if healthy, he was an easy #1 pick, the fact that he slipped to #6 makes me worry that he was medically redflagged)
MCW (great combination of size/athleticism, future All-Defense guy, will win games even though he is not the most efficient scorer)
Burke (will be a good starter for sure and explode in his 2nd-3rd year)
CJMC (hasn't played yet, but i am very high on him, possibly a future 6th man of the year)
KCP (his shot isn't falling, but is super fast and tries to play the right way)
Adams (solid defensive center that can actually play the PnR on the offensive end, very useful)
McLemore (future JR Smith clone, hopefully with a better brain)
Oladipo (a hustle, defensive 2-guard who is misused in Orlando atm, trying to feature him in the wrong role)
Giannis (ridiculous combination of length and speed which will make him a great defender, huge potential, will likely take years to get there)

I thought that players like Bennett, Zeller and Len were huge reaches in the spots they were drafted at, so i am not surprised they are not showing much right now. Noone should be saying though that they won't be able to find a place and a role in the league eventually.

My one negative surprise so far has been Porter, even though it was only two games and after an injury, he didn't look good at all and basically worries me that he might end being something like Wesley Johnson V2.0 without even an outside shot. But it's really too early to tell.

[Johnlac1]

People think this was a sucky draft, 2000 level bad, i kinda disagree. I think it's filled with future good starters and *more* importantly future winners. If you remove Anthony Davis from the equation, i think 2013 is better than 2012 and has more depth.

Noel (if healthy, he was an easy #1 pick, the fact that he slipped to #6 makes me worry that he was medically redflagged)
MCW (great combination of size/athleticism, future All-Defense guy, will win games even though he is not the most efficient scorer)
Burke (will be a good starter for sure and explode in his 2nd-3rd year)
CJMC (hasn't played yet, but i am very high on him, possibly a future 6th man of the year)
KCP (his shot isn't falling, but is super fast and tries to play the right way)
Adams (solid defensive center that can actually play the PnR on the offensive end, very useful)
McLemore (future JR Smith clone, hopefully with a better brain)
Oladipo (a hustle, defensive 2-guard who is misused in Orlando atm, trying to feature him in the wrong role)
Giannis (ridiculous combination of length and speed which will make him a great defender, huge potential, will likely take years to get there)

I thought that players like Bennett, Zeller and Len were huge reaches in the spots they were drafted at, so i am not surprised they are not showing much right now. Noone should be saying though that they won't be able to find a place and a role in the league eventually.

My one negative surprise so far has been Porter, even though it was only two games and after an injury, he didn't look good at all and basically worries me that he might end being something like Wesley Johnson V2.0 without even an outside shot. But it's really too early to tell.

Len has been barely able to walk most days since his ankle operations over the summer. Every time he tries to play, he's under a lot of pain. I wonder if the Suns are thinking about shelving him for the year and waiting until next season. Zeller has been coming on strong the last few games. Last night he had 12pts, 6 rbds, 2 asts., and a block in 15 minutes. The previous game he had 10 pts. in about as many minutes. He should be starting by next month.

[Just Plain Mark]

MCW when healthy is the top rookie no doubt. I do think Oladipo will give him a run for his money. Both teams suck too so they will get the same amount of attention.

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False. The 76ers don't suck when MCW is playing. They are a below average to average team. The Jazz just flat out stink so I don't get too excited with Burke

The Sixers have only two more victories than the Jazz in a much weaker conference. The Jazz are 4-8 when Burke is playing, compared to 1-11 when he isn't. He's averaging basically the same numbers as Oladipo in 3 less minutes per game and almost 3 times less turnovers per game. His FG% hasn't been great, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being rookie of the year.

To say that Burke's FG% hasn't been "great" is a pretty big understatement as he's shooting 38% (and doing so on more shots than Oladipo so PPG isn't a very good source of comparison for ROY). Plus, Burke gets to the FT line half as much as Victor. To be fair, Burke's PER is better, his A/TO is much better and his 3PT % is much better. The analysis is they play much different roles, with Burke the starting PG and Dipo starting at SG and then playing a weird hybrid for the rest of the games.