Pistons get criticized for coaching changes, but not Knicks?

Q00 · Post #1 » by **Q00** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:33 pm

If the Knicks replace Woodson this year, their next coach will be their 9th in the last 10 years.

Don Chaney: 2001-2004
Herb Williams: 2004
Lenny Wilkens: 2004-2005
Herb Williams: 2005
Larry Brown: 2005-2006
Isiah Thomas: 2006-2008
Mike D'Antoni: 2008-2012
Mike Woodson: 2012-2013
?Van Gundy?: 2013-

It will also be their 4th in-season coaching change in that time span.

Compare that to the Pistons last 10 years of 7 coaching changes (none fired in season), and I have to ask why are the Pistons and Dumars looked at as the posterboys of coaching changes, and not the Knicks? Who seem to almost get applauded by the media every time they hire a new coach, while the Pistons get trashed.

Ironically, the guy who trashed the Pistons the most during this last coaching change, Van Gundy, could become Number 9 for the Knicks in the last 10 years. I guess he has no problem with them making so many changes, lol.

If the Knicks can get away with changing coach's almost every year, there shouldn't be this stigma around the Pistons of "they can't make another coaching change".

DCintheD · Post #2 » by **DCintheD** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:35 pm

the Knicks are a joke of an organization

rock digger · Post #3 » by **rock digger** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:14 pm

In case you haven't noticed the Knicks are one of the premier laughingstocks of the league in the last decade.

Sheeeeed · Post #4 » by **Sheeeeed** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:20 pm

I can't see JVG taking over that cluster ****, especially if Melo is leaving.

DetroitDon15 · Post #5 » by **DetroitDon15** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:22 pm

The Knicks have become a joke. Their game plan to sell out to make Melo happy has failed. Their previous plan of selling off assets to sign Lebron, Bosh, or one of those dudes in FA failed as well. The Knicks need to blow it up and start over. The best way to turn around a franchise is with a superstar via the draft.

ImHeisenberg · Post #6 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:08 pm

It's true. But, the Knicks will open their wallet for premier coaches, and have the allure of NY and an owner who will spend to win (even to the detriment of the team).

Detroit isn't what anyone would call a 'destination city', and does not have leadership and/or ownership that will open of the bank for a coach or team salary.

The reality is this- there's only 30 head coaching jobs in the NBA. There will always be interested parties when a vacancy opens up. It's on management to find the right candidate.

MrBigShot · Post #7 » by **MrBigShot** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:06 pm

I always felt like Kuester/Curry were terrible hires. No prior experience, not particularly adept at managing egos, Xs and Os, rotations or getting a team to play hard all the time. I literally can't think of one strength that these two had. At least Frank was competent...his rotations weren't always great, but he didn't let the locker room get out of control like Kuester did. Mo Cheeks is a player coach, so at least you know the players respect him.

So in that sense, some of the criticism is unwarranted. If your coach is clearly not capable of coaching at the NBA-level, they -should- be fired. In Frank's case I think it was pretty clear that we weren't going to extend him, so we went ahead and fired him instead of using him as a "lame duck" as he put it.

I think it's fair to criticize poor selection of coaches, but not to criticize a coaching change if it will clearly help your team. The bill is still out on Mo cheeks...although admittedly I'm not a big supporter.

The Penguin · Post #8 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:10 am

DetroitDon15 wrote:The Knicks have become a joke. Their game plan to sell out to make Melo happy has failed. Their previous plan of selling off assets to sign Lebron, Bosh, or one of those dudes in FA failed as well. The Knicks need to blow it up and start over. The best way to turn around a franchise is with a superstar via the draft.

Too bad they gave away all of their draft picks....

qm22 · Post #9 » by **qm22** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:13 am

A lot of Detroit's coaching changes were unavoidable. Things like ownership picks (Davidson being cheap --> Kuester hired instead of Thibodeau; Frank hired was based on how he interviewed with rookie owner Gores rather than merit). Larry Brown wanted to leave and pissed off the former owner through his antics in trying to extricate himself, but it was hardly a bad parting given Brown's nature but accomplishments during his time.

It's pretty funny to see Frank get hired based on friendship, another non-basketball coaching related way he got a coaching position, and then get exiled by the person who wanted to do him a favor. I think Jason Kidd's bringing Frank to a assistant coach position prevented the Pistons from having to pay the remaining year on his contract.

Laimbeer · Post #10 » by **Laimbeer** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:30 pm

Where did you get the idea they aren't criticized? Their front office is the laughingstock of the league.

Balrog · Post #11 » by **Balrog** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:36 pm

It's crazy actually how fast the tides turn. Last season Woodson was definitely a Coach of the Year candidate, and right now he just looks clueless. I think the main problem here is the pressure playing for the city, because however crap their team is, the crazy high expectations will be there. The scapegoat is always the coach, when the players should be blamed.

Clarity · Post #12 » by **Clarity** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:04 pm

The Knicks dont get criticized??

Turn on the TV & live on this planet.

Q00 · Post #13 » by **Q00** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:29 pm

Laimbeer wrote:Where did you get the idea they aren't criticized? Their front office is the laughingstock of the league.

Don't get me wrong, I know they get criticized for how bad their team is all the time. But you never hear anyone saying, 'they can't fire another coach...'or, 'sure, blame it all on the coach again...'

You know the same old narrative that gets used every time the Pistons are about to make a coaching change.

Just wondered why you hear that all the time about the Pistons, but never for the Knicks. Definitely a double standard around the league when it comes to these two teams and coaching changes.

DetroitDon15 · Post #14 » by **DetroitDon15** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:29 pm

Piston Prince wrote:
DetroitDon15 wrote:The Knicks have become a joke. Their game plan to sell out to make Melo happy has failed. Their previous plan of selling off assets to sign Lebron, Bosh, or one of those dudes in FA failed as well. The Knicks need to blow it up and start over. The best way to turn around a franchise is with a superstar via the draft.

Too bad they gave away all of their draft picks....

This reason is why they are the Knicks. It is just one big joke there.

ChainLink · Post #15 » by **ChainLink** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:23 pm

Q00 wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:Where did you get the idea they aren't criticized? Their front office is the laughingstock of the league.

Don't get me wrong, I know they get criticized for how bad their team is all the time. But you never hear anyone saying, 'they can't fire another coach...'or, 'sure, blame it all on the coach again...'

You know the same old narrative that gets used every time the Pistons are about to make a coaching change.

Just wondered why you hear that all the time about the Pistons, but never for the Knicks. Definitely a double standard around the league when it comes to these two teams and coaching changes.

Agree with what you're saying, but the reason is because Joe has been our GM throughout our entire run. I think it's unfair, but the public perception is Dumars is a "coach-killer". The Knicks has had a revolving door of GMs (Scott Layden, Isiah, Walsh, Glen Grunfeld, now Steve Mills) so it's not like all of their coaches are getting fired by the same guy.

DBC10 · Post #16 » by **DBC10** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:56 pm

^This. The Knicks change FO all the time and that means the coach is always in danger of changing anyways. Dumars has been around for a long time if you think about it and went through coaching changes like there's no tomorrow.

Realistically, GMs get maybe 2 to 3 coaching changes before the fan base turns on the GM since they realize it's not just the coach's fault.

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Post #17 » by **ajaX82** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:13 pm

The Knicks are definitely, and rightly, often criticized. I think the difference being that the Pistons had such a successful run recently that you would expect some continuity or accountability for the constant coaching carousel. The Knicks haven't been relevant in some time and thus people come to expect silliness from them.

chrbal · Post #18 » by **chrbal** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:35 pm

The knicks don't get criticized for their coaching changes because they provide their media with so many other ideas to critique.

1- How Tim Hardaway Jr isn't getting more consistent minutes is beyond me.
2- They have a superstar who doesn't really help ball movement, a chucking SG who does the same...so while they needed frontcourt help and ball movement help, they traded for Andrea. Who is not much of a passer and more very tall SF then a low post player.
3- Tyson Chandler, I would argue, is almost as important to their success as Carmelo is. He's on his way back, but Tyson has been out since early November.
4- How do they justify keeping Chris Smith and Cole Aldrich on their roster? Those are players that good teams hang onto to develop, not bad teams that need depth. Even a cheap vet like Dahntay Jones or Darius Morris and Johan Petro would be a drastic improvement.

That's just roster issues OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. That's why no one pays attention to their coaching issues.