Bucks talking Asik

[emunney]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I'm going to take that as an admission that you can't think of one team that wouldn't like to have Nate-Udoh-Ersan. Lets do it this way, what teams wouldn't give up simply some kind of salary filler for that package? Nobody. What teams wouldn't give up simply some kind of salary filler for Asik and Brewer. Plenty of teams. Case closed sorry to say.

You don't think if a team didn't need to give up value they wouldn't take Asik, one of the best defensive centers in the league? You're nuts. He has value and to the right team a damn good amount of value. If all it took was a "salary filler", every team in the league would take him.

And I edited that post and said Atlanta, they have no use for our package to give up anywhere near fair value.

Ok let me put it a different way. Could Ersan on his own be moved for an expiring contract? Yes. Could Asik? Sure. But if u acquire Asik and trade him for an expiring u are left with Ronnie Brewer (which = worthless crap). If u trade for Ers with that package and then flip him for an expiring u are left with Wolters (which = a worthwhile asset). Thus every team in the entire league would trade for the bucks package because even if its a tanking team u could turn around and Ers unload for nothing and still have a nice young piece that would make the entire trade worthwhile.

With Asik that isn't the case, a tanking team acquiring and unloading Asik would be left with nothing, which makes trading for him useless for those select teams. Therefore, every team in the league would covet the bucks trade package to some extent. With the rockets package that simply isn't true. Do u see why I'm right that the Bucks trade package is more valuable?

Edit: And Atlanta would definitely go for that package if they could. If u want me to put together a deal they would do I will...

[CanadaBucks]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Canaan, Motiejunas or a 1st do it for you?

[whatthe_buck!?]

I think this trade would make us worse since Nate is our best pg at the moment. Losing Ersan and having two centers who would fight for minutes also helps us tank even harder. I don't mind the trade if we can turn Asik around and flip him or Larry right away for a prospect better than Wolters. However given that the organization is delusional enough to think this trade would improve the team, I have zero confidence they get a better prospect for the money back than Wolters. Plus let's be honest, Asik just isn't that good and not a difference maker at all. And Ronnie Brewer, wth. Can we just make a rule to never target players in trades who are already declining and past their prime? #bucksgonnabucks

If, as u say, Asik isn't that good (and since Ersan is pretty good, at least imo), wouldn't we get more in return in a trade if we just made a different trade instead with Ersan of trading him for Asik and then flipping him? That's like jumping through extra hoops for a lesser return in my book, and that's not even taking into account giving up a guy u think is pretty ok in Wolters (although based on your post I'm guessing u dont think all that highly of his long term potential)...

My post is poorly worded. Basically Ersan and Udoh have played like crap this year so their value is low right now. However if the team was smart enough to have another trade lined up to send Asik to say OKC for Lamb and Jones. Then all of a sudden it's a great move considering those guys are the exact guys we should be trying to pick up. This example is extreme though since OKC wouldn't do that. And deep down I think we all know, they wouldn't flip these guys since they probably think their veteran leadership will help us get the 8 seed. I actually like Wolters a lot but I would give him Udoh and Ersan up if it netted us a prospect like Lamb. That's my main point.

It is truly a very difficult discussion to have without concretely knowing what actually would be on the table for Asik and Ers around the league, I'll certainly admit that...

[whatthe_buck!?]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Canaan, Motiejunas or a 1st do it for you?

No, no, yes please

[CanadaBucks]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Canaan, Motiejunas or a 1st do it for you?

No, no, yes please

I likely do the deal for any one of those, 1st/Canaan/Motiejunas order of preference.

[ReddWing]

Canaan, Motiejunas or a 1st do it for you?

Honestly, no it doesn't. Another tiny point guard, big Euro, and a pick that has a good chance of not being as talented as Nate. No thanks.

[Badgerlander]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcDI_uBGUo[/youtube]

[CanadaBucks]

Canaan, Motiejunas or a 1st do it for you?

Honestly, no it doesn't. Another tiny point guard, big Euro, and a pick that has a good chance of not being as talented as Nate. No thanks.

I really think that Asik+Brewer>Ersan+ Udoh for a few different reasons and therefore would do the deal. Release Brewer for his 100K NGed contract and you have a roster spot, give kendall Marshall a shot, he has some history with Henson. I take my chances a first is better than Nate or use it with my early 2nds to try to do something

[Baddy Chuck]

Spoiler:

Ok let me put it a different way. Could Ersan on his own be moved for an expiring contract? Yes. Could Asik? Sure. But if u acquire Asik and trade him for an expiring u are left with Ronnie Brewer (which = worthless crap). If u trade for Ers with that package and then flip him for an expiring u are left with Wolters (which = a worthwhile asset). Thus every team in the entire league would trade for the bucks package because even if its a tanking team u could turn around and Ers unload for nothing and still have a nice young piece that would make the entire trade worthwhile.

With Asik that isn't the case, a tanking team acquiring and unloading Asik would be left with nothing, which makes trading for him useless for those select teams. Therefore, every team in the league would covet the bucks trade package to some extent. With the rockets package that simply isn't true. Do u see why I'm right that the Bucks trade package is more valuable?

Edit: And Atlanta would definitely go for that package if they could. If u want me to put together a deal they would do I will...

If you want to base a deal off a team giving up nothing but a salary filler, every team in the league would take ours or the Asik package because they have value. That isn't how most (any) trades work. Teams have to give up value to get value. Not a lot of teams are going to give up the required value for either package. They are niche packages and only fill a role on a limited number of teams. There is no point in arguing which package has more value if Ersan/Asik had no value, because they do have value. Personally, I look at the teams that would probably be willing to give up the assets for either Ersan or Asik, and I think Asik gets you the better asset, and I think that asset (namely Lamb) would be well worth giving up Wolters.

I think all three packages (Bucks/Rockets/Thunder) are similar value. I wouldn't trade ours for Houston's because there is no point, Asik serves no purpose on our team. I don't think Houston would trade Asik for the Thunder's package because they are a win now team and Lamb really serves no purpose besides an asset on their team. I would however trade our package for the Thunder's because we get a higher tier prospect in Lamb. If we could get Asik (to flip) without giving up Wolters obviously that is better, but if we could flip Asik for a better prospect I have no problem trading Wolters.

Taking out the value/fit aspect to certain parts of trades is a ridiculous way to look at it. Of course if teams didn't have to give up something of value to get something of value they'd do it.

[LUKE23]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Couldn't have really said it any better.

[Garbs_7]

I haven't read through the thread yet but my first reaction is we're going to need more billboards.

[Badgerlander]

I haven't read through the thread yet but my first reaction is we're going to need more billboards.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gciFoEbOA8[/youtube]

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

If this goes down, I see some win now 30+ year old PFs to be had. I'm afraid to mention names because it will probably happen knowing this organization. Look around the league and there are so many PFs on big contracts that will ruin the tank.

[Baddy Chuck]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Basically this. I don't think the value is bad at all if you flip Asik for a better young player, but keeping Asik would make us clear losers in this trade. We would get about 1/100th out of Asik as compared to someone like OKC or Portland would and that number would be even less when Larry comes back. Losing Wolter's would just be the extra kick in the balls.

[ReasonablySober]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Couldn't have really said it any better.

Yup.

If you want losses, this deal gets you them.

[blazza18]

We don't need Asik in any way shape or form.
We have nothing to gain by moving one of our other Center assets in the process.

Hammond: Hang up the phone. Get back in your tank!

This is it for me. Nothing else needs to be said.

[paul]

Yep, the only way I'm including Wolters is if a better young player is coming back, and even then I'm trying to get it done without Nate. We just need all the quality young players we can get.

That said, this trade as constructed would bottom us out. Trading one of two guys on the roster who actually has the skillset to be a primary ballhandler, and leaving us with only Ridnour, who has been 90% horrendous. And getting back a defense only C who despite doing nothing offensively is ridiculously turnover prone? We might lose 20 in a row. We might average 70 points a game. Below average talent arranged in the worst possible way.

I honestly don't think there's a good player in the league who could make less sense for us than Omer Asik (and he is a good player), and if we're trying to win now, there probably isn't a player who makes less sense to give up than Wolters.

Basically this. I don't think the value is bad at all if you flip Asik for a better young player, but keeping Asik would make us clear losers in this trade. We would get about 1/100th out of Asik as compared to someone like OKC or Portland would and that number would be even less when Larry comes back. Losing Wolter's would just be the extra kick in the balls.

Our balls are sore enough. Don't you dare John boy.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

hope it goes down. but we would need to follow it up with another asik or sanders deal that nets a better young guy than wolters. this trade alone doesnt make any sense longterm at all. asik should hold his value so im not to worried about timing... we could move him predraft or in the summer for all i care. and as stated before.... this wont affect our performance on the floor much this season either. win win.

[blazza18]

hope it goes down. but we would need to follow it up with another asik or sanders deal that nets a better young guy than wolters. this trade alone doesnt make any sense longterm at all. asik should hold his value so im not to worried about timing... we could move him predraft or in the summer for all i care. and as stated before.... this wont affect our performance on the floor much this season either. win win.

You serious ?