Why isn't John Hammond fired?

[ampd]

At a certain point I just don't care about the excuses. If we have really drafted that well we should be winning basketball games.

One season at 46 wins (due to Salmons playing at a league MVP level post trade deadline) and the rest well below .500, including producing the worst team in the NBA this season just can't be good enough.

Teams trying to stealth tank don't try to pick up Korver, Teague, JR Smith, etc. in the off season, and then turn around and overpay for Mayo, Delfino, Zaza, and Neal. I'm not so sure Morway is some kind of savior either, he was hired with the current regime there, and was around for the terrible off season we just had too.

However, Kohl and the same group of cronies and newly minted vice presidents will still be around if we fire Hammond, so I'm not sure firing him will really be changing anything. With that said, there is always the chance that the new GM would at least be able to succeed at being mediocre. More than half the time we don't even actually get the 8th seed Kohl so covets.

[SkilesTheLimit]

CLASSIC JENNINGS GIF



Come on, Mike, you gotta stretch for that one.

I've always loved that, I really feel for the person in the upper bowl that ball crashed into- it was really moving.

I love 2 things about the GIF:

1) Dunleavy's WTF reaction after the pass sailed into the concourse and
2) Jennings' hand motion like "why didn't dude at least jump to try and catch that pass?"

[Wooderson]

Since 2008 the Pacers have gotten Hibbert with the 17th pick, George with the 10th pick and traded the 15th pick (Kawhi Leonard) to the Spurs for George Hill.

Great. Anyone else? #2 would still be pretty awesome. So would #5. Do we have five more teams that did a better job?

But we're talking about picks in the range Hammond is drafting correct? How many teams even qualify as drafting in that range year in year out. If we're going to include value picks at every spot it becomes a different discussion. There are only like 6 or 7 teams that would qualify under those guidelines, and Hammond is behind at least 2 of them.

[bizarro]

CLASSIC JENNINGS GIF



Come on, Mike, you gotta stretch for that one.

I've always loved that, I really feel for the person in the upper bowl that ball crashed into- it was really moving.

I love 2 things about the GIF:

1) Dunleavy's WTF reaction after the pass sailed into the concourse and
2) Jennings' hand motion like "why didn't dude at least jump to try and catch that pass?"

I think my favorite is Ayon's reaction on the bench. Hands tossed in disbelief Yo tambien, Gustavo. Yo, tambien.

[Kerb Hohl]

Kerb, you're still not getting it. I'm talking about drafting. I openly admit he's terrible at virtually everything else.

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm sure you've read Moneyball. Beane has intelligent thought and applies it to player moves and drafting. He specifically states his ideas in his drafting approach.

Tobias Harris was being asked to be freed because he was a really efficient scorer, something John probably should have known if he was smart enough to draft him. But wait, he brought in Gooden, drafted Jennings, and traded for Monta. Oh, he couldn't even convince the coach he supposedly married to play said player.

I realize Herb had a hand there, but that doesn't add up. If I'm really good at investing in the stock market, you probably won't see me taking 80% of my life savings and saying I'm going to invest in the roulette wheel.

[andonewheel]

At a certain point I just don't care about the excuses anymore. If we have really drafted that well we should be winning basketball games.

One season at 46 wins (due to Salmons playing at a league MVP level post trade deadline) and the rest well below .500, including producing the worst team in the NBA this season just can't be good enough.

Teams trying to stealth tank don't try to pick up Korver, Teague, JR Smith, etc. in the off season, and then turn around and overpay for Mayo, Delfino, Zaza, and Neal.

I disagree on the first point. We have drafted reasonably well, but we have consistent picked in the 10-15 pick range and drafting well there isn't going to make you a contender unless you strike absolute gold. When you factor in free agency where we are among the worst teams, along with trades and coaching it isn't hard to see why we are a fringe playoff team on a good day.

I also don't think there should be serious talk about a "stealth tank" like it was an intentional plan that Hammond tried to do to sneak past Kohl. It is more of an unintentional tank.

[ReasonablySober]

Since 2008 the Pacers have gotten Hibbert with the 17th pick, George with the 10th pick and traded the 15th pick (Kawhi Leonard) to the Spurs for George Hill.

Great. Anyone else? #2 would still be pretty awesome. So would #5. Do we have five more teams that did a better job?

But we're talking about picks in the range Hammond is drafting correct? How many teams even qualify as drafting in that range year in year out. If we're going to include value picks at every spot it becomes a different discussion. There are only like 6 or 7 teams that would qualify under those guidelines, and Hammond is behind at least 2 of them.

You included MCW. Hinkie is new on the job and has made one pick.

[paulpressey25]

Let's just all head over here....watch the 30 second Bill and Jalen video clip again, and have a group hug.

http://saveourbucks.com/bill-simmons-bi ... eourbucks/

We're doomed with that mess in the front office.

[bizarro]

Kerb, you're still not getting it. I'm talking about drafting. I openly admit he's terrible at virtually everything else.

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm sure you've read Moneyball. Beane has intelligent thought and applies it to player moves and drafting.

Tobias Harris was being asked to be freed because he was a really efficient scorer, something John probably should have known if he was smart enough to draft him. But wait, he brought in Gooden, drafted Jennings, and traded for Monta. Oh, he couldn't even convince the coach he supposedly married to play said player.

I realize Herb had a hand there, but that doesn't add up. If I'm really good at investing in the stock market, you probably won't see me taking 80% of my life savings and saying I'm going to invest in the roulette wheel.

Well said, Kerb. In the end, we're back at the beginning. Discussing the inner-working of the Bucks brain trust (I hesitate to call it such) is a fun house of mirrors. Not until we truly get the Larry Harris memoir will we truly know what goes on...All I know is I trust Hammond drafting but I mistrust him in most everything else and I know there is an amount of meddling involved with all personnel decisions I just don't know how much.

[Wooderson]

But we're talking about picks in the range Hammond is drafting correct? How many teams even qualify as drafting in that range year in year out. If we're going to include value picks at every spot it becomes a different discussion. There are only like 6 or 7 teams that would qualify under those guidelines, and Hammond is behind at least 2 of them.

You included MCW. Hinkie is new on the job and has made one pick.

Why does that matter? We're comparing Hammonds track record to the rest of the league, not to individual GMs.

[ReasonablySober]

Kerb, you're still not getting it. I'm talking about drafting. I openly admit he's terrible at virtually everything else.

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm sure you've read Moneyball. Beane has intelligent thought and applies it to player moves and drafting.

Tobias Harris was being asked to be freed because he was a really efficient scorer, something John probably should have known if he was smart enough to draft him. But wait, he brought in Gooden, drafted Jennings, and traded for Monta. Oh, he couldn't even convince the coach he supposedly married to play said player.

I realize Herb had a hand there, but that doesn't add up. If I'm really good at investing in the stock market, you probably won't see me taking 80% of my life savings and saying I'm going to invest in the roulette wheel.

I don't believe that a player is remotely close to what he'll eventually be prior to stepping foot on an NBA court. So I disagree with your entire premise.

But Moneyball is one of my two or three favorite books, probably.

[Baddy Chuck]

His drafting has been good, but I'm still with PP in saying he hasn't hit a signature move. He got his Roy Hibberts (good mid firsts) and his Lance Stephensons (good second rounders) but he hasn't even come close to sniffing his Paul Geroge (a true difference maker). Maybe Giannis becomes that, but I'm hardly going to give him the benefit of the doubt there. I mean seriously, how many Larry Sanders' and LRMAM's would you need without that one shining star to compete with the big guns of the league? 5? 6? 7? More? If he's going to make a stake on his drafting, he's going to basically have to be FLAWLESS with how awful he is at everything else, and he's already blown two top 10 picks in his time here.

[ReasonablySober]

But we're talking about picks in the range Hammond is drafting correct? How many teams even qualify as drafting in that range year in year out. If we're going to include value picks at every spot it becomes a different discussion. There are only like 6 or 7 teams that would qualify under those guidelines, and Hammond is behind at least 2 of them.

You included MCW. Hinkie is new on the job and has made one pick.

Why does that matter? We're comparing Hammonds track record to the rest of the league, not to individual GMs.

Actually, yea, I'm comparing GM track record.

[bizarro]

Let's just all head over here....watch the 30 second Bill and Jalen video clip again, and have a group hug.

http://saveourbucks.com/bill-simmons-bi ... eourbucks/

We're doomed with that mess in the front office.

Oooooooh, new off-green stripes down the heart of the banner. I likey.

[TheWig]

I spoke with my boss' boyfriend tonight, he's on hammonds' staff.

The win now mandate is all Kohl. Hammonds wants the young guys to play and Larry Drew is being stubborn and refusing to listen to what he's being told. He truly is the tank commander. That being said Kohl wants to make the playoffs still. Like this season still... They are going to wait until around the allstar break before making a move and deciding whether or not to go for it so i wouldnt worry about Asik just yet.. If they're within sniffing distance of the 8th seed though don't be shocked to see a young guy moved. Apparently last season the Hawks pulled out of the Smith trade literally 2 mins before the deadline bc they wanted our pick and we wanted to give them Henson. We pulled the Tobias trade which all parties, kohl and hammond both, believed would put them in the playoffs.

Kohl is the problem. Larry Drew is clueless which turns out to benefit us. Hammonds has his job bc he knows the young guys are the answer and all this win now **** keeps failing.

By the way, they know all about SaveOurBucks.com

I heard in the off season before we hired Drew that he didn't know what the **** he was doing in Atlanta either. I also heard that we were ready to hire Sampson but Hammond was the only one not on board with that hiring.

[ReasonablySober]

His drafting has been good, but I'm still with PP in saying he hasn't hit a signature move. He got his Roy Hibberts (good mid firsts) and his Lance Stephensons (good second rounders) but he hasn't even come close to sniffing his Paul Geroge (a true difference maker). Maybe Giannis becomes that, but I'm hardly going to give him the benefit of the doubt there. I mean seriously, how many Larry Sanders' and LRMAM's would you need without that one shining star to compete with the big guns of the league? 5? 6? 7? More? If he's going to make a stake on his drafting, he's going to basically have to be FLAWLESS with how awful he is at everything else, and he's already blown two top 10 picks in his time here.

So we're making the standard a pick that could go down as one of the best of all time?

What?

[Wooderson]

Actually, yea, I'm comparing GM track record.

Uh, that makes zero sense. We're comparing how Hammond's done in a given draft position compared to what the rest of the league does. It's a wins-above replacement mentality.

The construct of only using mid round picks or below already eliminates the opportunity for some comparisons, and now you want to limit the pool even further?

[ReasonablySober]

Actually, yea, I'm comparing GM track record.

Uh, that makes zero sense. We're comparing how Hammond's done in a given draft position compared to what the rest of the league does. It's a win-above replacement mentality.

The construct of only using mid round picks or below already eliminates the opportunity for some comparisons, and now you want to limit the pool even further?

I'm comparing Hammond to other GMs and how they've done without top picks. Hammond is the subject of this thread, so I thought that was obvious.

[SkilesTheLimit]

Let's just all head over here....watch the 30 second Bill and Jalen video clip again, and have a group hug.

http://saveourbucks.com/bill-simmons-bi ... eourbucks/

We're doomed with that mess in the front office.

Kohl doesn't know what the internet is. He only knows it by name as the thing Al Gore said he invented.

Can't you just imagine Kohl, Burr, Walter, and Steinmiller in the office hovering over a PC all trying to figure out how to a) turn on the computer, b) get on the internet, and then c) logging onto saveourbucks.com to see what all this chatter is about?

[bizarro]

I heard in the off season before we hired Drew that he didn't know what the **** he was doing in Atlanta either. I also heard that we were ready to hire Sampson but Hammond was the only one not on board with that hiring.

This man:



Definitely know what he's doing. Just ask Epi, he'll tell you. Everything in the NBA revolves around talent. Coaches mean absolutely nothing. We could simply have a wet loofah on a chair calling all the shots. Actually, that would probably be an improvement for us.