Why isn't John Hammond fired?

[Sigra]

Why isn't XXXXXXXX fired? Because his boss still likes him enough to keep him at that job.

Work for every person and any job.

[cinematographer]

If Hammond and his staff aren't smart enough to see they were in no danger of losing the 8th seed last year, I see no reason to even hope we'll ever run anything close to a modern offense at any point in his tenure.

What possible... how can they be so good at drafting but so entirely incompetent in every other avenue? Our only hope is Hammond gets so fed up with Drew that he can pin the "failure" of this season on Drew and the moves he wanted to make and bring in a coach who can look more than two feet in front of his face, but what of Hammond's track record suggests outside the box thinking for the on-court product?

[Omar]Hammond's got to go. Kohl too. [/Omar]

[jr lucosa]

I see others already have this covered but obviously because of his drafting. I find it tough to discuss Hammond anymore because so many here are so hard-pressed to give him credit for anything, yet have no problem dumping every **** move on him that it's tough to have a real discussion about him.

I've for a long time wanted to see Hammond have free reigns in building a young team the way he wants, he's done a good job finding talents in the middle of the 1st and 2nd rounds. He's hinted in interviews that he actually does get it and gets pushed into some of these horrible win-now moves by higher powers and there's no arguing that in his time here a majority of trades we have made have been horrible, but if we were rebuilding we wouldn't have been in a position to ever make any of those terrible trades. There is a reason Portland wanted to pry him away from us a couple years ago, he can recognize young talent. In a seemingly never ending win-now mandate here he is definitely not the right guy, but it is a shame he was never and most likely never will be given a chance to build the team the way he would.

This off-season Caron Butler was on NBA TV and when asked about how he knew Milwaukee had interest in him he said he and his agent got calls from the Senator himself. What the **** is Kohl doing reaching out to Caron and his agent, isn't that what the GM is for? How can he ever succeed with an old senile man half playing the role for him.

(which we used to get the 7th pick and then traded for Stephen Jackson)

I find it funny that this move has been brought up and used against Hammond a lot. Drafted 7 that year was Bismack Biyombo. The three picks after that were Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Jimmer Fredette. We traded down and grabbed Tobias Harris. We lost draft position but we did not lose that trade. The following Tobes trade was obviously a disaster but the reason why it was a disaster was because of Tobias' potential. If we stayed at 7 and drafted Biyombo (who I actually like)or Fredette, Knight etc. and traded them it wouldn't have been as big of a blow.

[Wooderson]

Alright, making this REALLY easy:

Wolters
Sanders
Harris
Antetokounmpo
Henson

What core are you taking over that?

Active GMs, picking six or later.

Many GMs have have improved their teams through other means which prevented them from consistently drafting higher. Also disallowing top 5 picks means those GM will necessarily have less picks to choose from in terms of core players. It's a flawed exercise to begin with but here we go.


Presti: He's had less opportunities because his home run top 5 picks took away opportunites, and still came through. Also picked up Lamb to the core before he even played an NBA game.

Spoiler:

Ibaka
Adams
Reggie Jackson
Perry Jones

Dumars:

Spoiler:

Knight
KCP
Stuckey
Afflalo
Monroe
Drummond
Middleton

Bird:

Spoiler:

Paul George
Stephenson
Hibbert
Granger
Plumlee
Bayless
Hansborough

Morey:

Spoiler:

Lamb
Parsons
Jones
Marcus Morris
Mirotic
Patterson
Novak

Paxon: Not set up as well for the future, but has made some very good picks. And they pretty much rode this team plus a few plug-ins to the 2nd round.

Spoiler:

Noah
Deng
Gibson
Butler
Snell

Then you have a guy like Buford, who while not the GM when Parker and Ginobli were picked, was instrumental according the organization in landing those guys, a big reason why given full player personnel duties. Because of that success (with Duncan), they end up drafting late 20's every year. Landed Kawhi for a previous good pick Hill. Tough to judge overall though.

A bunch of other teams have been successful of late but not within the construct you provided. GS/Philly are two examples. And that's really the problem here. A bunch of GM's are new or have switched teams. Another handful have benefited from top 5 picks. Hammond is in a unique position where he's been in the middle of the first round 6 times, and yes he's done well.

Hammond is a good drafter, like I've said many times. But the picks that make him good are still developing, meaning he could look great in a few years or he could just be solid. Same thing could be said for some of the guys above. It's late as **** and this post likely doesn't read coherently.

[AussieBuck]

It's hard to give Hammonds a lot of credit for his drafting when he's been so comprehensively terrible with every other part of his job. How is it possible that he's some savant for talent but only when it comes to young guys outside of the league is works in?

First draft he did the almost impossible picking the dud of a rich draft in Potsie. Year two he tries to trade up for the worst PG in the class then settles for the second worst. That's right the one time he made a move to go up in the draft it was for an utter potato. He wasn't chasing Harden, Curry or Rubio, he wanted **** Flynn. That's two drafts he utterly **** the bed. Big tick for Larry the next year even if he did hilariously think Larry was a PF. After that you have the two seasons of trading down that netted Tobes and Henson, he gets credit for making the right picks but he obviously didn't rate either guy above any number of other players in that range. Right picks yes but he was obviously happy with any number of other players in those spots. The Giannis pick looks great.

Obviously drafting at the positions they are in stands head and shoulders out in front of everything else the Bucks do but it's not the work of rare genius.

[hege53190]

Hammond's ability to kill an asset is unbelievable. He is either the most inept judge of talent in the NBA or completely spineless.

Seriously a month after you sign a 3 year contract extension, you make one of the biggest boneheaded trades in the NBA over the past 5 years and are saved from making an even worse trade?

Show some spine and own what you did. His only redeeming quality is his draft prowess but his willingness to trade them for nothing and inability to acquire more picks just magnifies his ineptness.

[grandad10]

Hambone should be scared to deal another young guy for a Vet after the Tobias trade. If he does it again get the paper bags ready.

[Chapter29]

Hammond is terrible.

I think adding Morway was insurance against being Hammonded again.

IMO without Morway (perhaps Drew too) Hammond would have kept Jennings and Ellis. We would be in our normal 8th, 9th place if Hammond had his way.

Enter Morway and Drew.....5 wins. A couple of solid young players. Love those guys.

[Thunder Muscle]

I've heard Hammond was for the Tobias trade and that's why Morway was brought in after the season. By the way, Hammond got his three year extension one month BEFORE the Tobias trade.

In any event, I'm just done with all the speculative **** about who was for what trade and what move. Was it Hammond, Morway, Babcock, Derrick Lutz, etc. who made deal X?

At the end of the day, Hammond has the TITLE of GM. The team is 5-17 after six-years of his work.

Time to go.

Yes, agree with this part. Too much energy is spent on who, why, what could of been, but the concrete information we have are the results on the floor. Its been 6 years and we're arguably in worse shape than when he took over, and no playoff series wins in his tenture. I think last year would've been the right time to part ways. Hammond by all accounts seems like a really nice guy and I want him to do well, but its a results driven profession and they haven't been there. And unfortunately I don't see anything changing unless we get that stud rookie AND he lives up to the hype --- which is no guarantee.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Here are the picks:

1sts
Alexander
Jennings
Sanders
Harris
Henson
Antetokounmpo

2nds:
LRMAM
Meeks
Hobson
Gallon
Leuer
Lamb
Wolters
.

and he started with bogut, ersan

jennings/ wolters
meeks/ giannis/ lamb
harris/ moute
ersan/ henson/ leuer
bogut/ sanders

from here on out he needs to just draft best player available on his board. make no trades. and sign no free agents for more than 2/10..... unless its our own homegrown guys.

it would be the best of both worlds. all you tankers would have youre youth rebuild thing going on..... and id have a team that would be competitive enough to keep me interested in a playoff chase each year.

[paulpressey25]

from here on out he needs to just draft best player available on his board. make no trades. and sign no free agents for more than 2/10..... unless its our own homegrown guys.

This is the problem with the idea of keeping Hammond around.

Let's say we win the lotto and he drafts Wiggins. Ok. Great.

Now over the next two years it will be up to John Hammond to figure out which young guys to keep, how to manage the cap, how to hire a head coach, how to deal with Herb and Cronies, who to trade or sign as a FA.

All the things Hammond absolutely sucks at. And he'll need to do them at a high level right after selecting Wiggins.

He's just got to go.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

It's hard to give Hammonds a lot of credit for his drafting when he's been so comprehensively terrible with every other part of his job. How is it possible that he's some savant for talent but only when it comes to young guys outside of the league is works in?

trades he has to deal with other gm's and probably kohl is more involved with trades then he is with the draft. i think hammond gets generally bullied and pushed around anytime he has to "make a deal". and that includes kohl, the cronies, and the gms on the other line. hes too nice a guy. the draft is probably the one part of his job hes had the most autonomy.

hes a solid scout, but his negotiating skills hurt him.

First draft he did the almost impossible picking the dud of a rich draft in Potsie. Year two he tries to trade up for the worst PG in the class then settles for the second worst. That's right the one time he made a move to go up in the draft it was for an utter potato. He wasn't chasing Harden, Curry or Rubio, he wanted **** Flynn. That's two drafts he utterly **** the bed. Big tick for Larry the next year even if he did hilariously think Larry was a PF. After that you have the two seasons of trading down that netted Tobes and Henson, he gets credit for making the right picks but he obviously didn't rate either guy above any number of other players in that range. Right picks yes but he was obviously happy with any number of other players in those spots. The Giannis pick looks great.

Obviously drafting at the positions they are in stands head and shoulders out in front of everything else the Bucks do but it's not the work of rare genius

too much talk here. better just to look at the how the picks turned out and leave it at that. all that justification makes you sound like your trying too hard.
dont be sad tho. ive been guilty of the same thing with his trades bigtime. at the end of the day just look at the result.

no more shoulda coulda woulda noise out of either of us

[msiris]

Alright, making this REALLY easy:

Wolters
Sanders
Harris
Antetokounmpo
Henson

What core are you taking over that?

Active GMs, picking six or later. This should be simple if Hammond is this terrible. Or even average.

We have seen flashes of potential from all of these guys bot its way to early to judge these guys yet. I believe that all the other stuff Hammound has done out weighs his drafting ability, so based on that he is a below average GM.

[paulpressey25]

We have seen flashes of potential from all of these guys bot its way to early to judge these guys yet. .

As we've had the "fire Hammond" discussion in years past, we've generally credited him with a very good pick as it relates to Brandon Jennings. To your point, that pick starts to look worse as the years go on, and Jennings proves to basically be a chucker.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Let's say we win the lotto and he drafts Wiggins. Ok. Great.

Now over the next two years it will be up to John Hammond to figure out which young guys to keep, how to manage the cap, how to hire a head coach, how to deal with Herb and Cronies, who to trade or sign as a FA.

that will be on any gm. and in milwaukee id rather take my chances on a gm that drafts well than any other thing. the minute you start making trades or signing free agents our market starts coming into it too much.

nobody wants to come here.... and kohl will pay anybody that will so we can win now. what a nightmare.

thats why i said. keep up the great drafts, NO TRADES except maybe package for an all nba'er, resign our own FA.... and if you sign a FA to fill out the roster its a dunleavy type deal only.

[jr lucosa]

We have seen flashes of potential from all of these guys bot its way to early to judge these guys yet. .

As we've had the "fire Hammond" discussion in years past, we've generally credited him with a very good pick as it relates to Brandon Jennings. To your point, that pick starts to look worse as the years go on, and Jennings proves to basically be a chucker.

But then shouldn't he get credit for trading the depreciating asset of Jennings for Knight and Middleton?

[msiris]

We have seen flashes of potential from all of these guys bot its way to early to judge these guys yet. .

As we've had the "fire Hammond" discussion in years past, we've generally credited him with a very good pick as it relates to Brandon Jennings. To your point, that pick starts to look worse as the years go on, and Jennings proves to basically be a chucker.

Good point. I look at Sanders and see a guy who played very well last year. Before that he showed flashes of potential. What worries me the most about last year was it was a contract year. I hope he comes back and lives up to last years production, otherwise its just not that great of a pick anymore.

[msiris]

We have seen flashes of potential from all of these guys bot its way to early to judge these guys yet. .

As we've had the "fire Hammond" discussion in years past, we've generally credited him with a very good pick as it relates to Brandon Jennings. To your point, that pick starts to look worse as the years go on, and Jennings proves to basically be a chucker.

But then shouldn't he get credit for trading the depreciating asset of Jennings for Knight and Middleton?

Again way too early. Middleton has shown some promise.

[Nebula1]

Looks like he's accomplishing exactly what we all want this season. Depending on what he does with trades, I'd leave him alone to finish the tank and let him draft.

[WEFFPIM]

One thing I just will never be able to get by is if Hammond is against the win-now mandate and that's just Kohl...then why accept an extension for a job you hate? Why accept an extension to keep working for an owner who handcuffs you from doing what you want to do?

Maybe he's now realized it and is trying to change. But no one can convince me he hasn't been on board with at least some of this.