Fake Trade Thread III

[James Gatz]

Upon further reading into Zach Lowe's piece, it doesn't look like Cho reached out to Houston. The Rockets sought out to the Bobcats about the Portland & Detroit picks for Omer Asik's services, and I'm guessing Cho gave them a chuckle before saying "no."

Link?

[catch20two]

Morey must think Asik is a all-star or something

He had one good year where he barely averaged a double-double and that's it. He'd be lucky to get one 1st rounder for him and he had the nerve to ask us for two 1st rounders and the right to swap 1st rounders in a future draft. He must be out of his mind. He can keep his backup C rotting on the bench. We got Biz who is gonna be better by next year at 22 years of age than Asik is right now at 27.

[HornetJail]

We discussed a trade for Asik?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -Omer-Asik

No, the Rockets just offered a trade that made Cho rofl.

[James Gatz]

Found it: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... -omer-asik

[mrknowitall215]

Upon further reading into Zach Lowe's piece, it doesn't look like Cho reached out to Houston. The Rockets sought out to the Bobcats about the Portland & Detroit picks for Omer Asik's services, and I'm guessing Cho gave them a chuckle before saying "no."

Link?

Morey is indeed asking a lot, which is why at least one unnamed executive reportedly referred to his demands as "delusional." It's been reported that Morey had asked at least one team for two first-round picks in exchange for Asik, but a source familiar with those talks says Morey actually asked for more than that: two first-round picks and the right to swap first-round picks in a third draft. The team in question was the Bobcats, according to multiple sources familiar with the talks.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... -omer-asik

[HornetJail]

I hope that's just Cho doing his due dilligence. I have yet to see him make a negative trade in his tenure as the Bobcats GM

Every trade Cho has ever made has turned out to actually be very good- I just wish there were more of them.

Let's take a look:

With Portland:
-> Traded Jerryd Bayless for a 1st rounder (that's a solid haul in itself)
-> Traded said 1st along with a future 1st, and a hunk of garbage to CHA for Gerald Wallace (who the very next year was apparently worth Damian Lillard)
Now with Charlotte:
-> Traded Stephen Jackson, Shaun Livingston, and that same 1st rounder for Corey Maggette and a better 1st rounder that became Biz
-> Traded a 2nd rounder for Byron Mullens (who was worth it whether you want to believe it or not)
-> Traded Corey Maggette for Ben Gordon and a 1st (major haul- that 1st is worth a lot right now)
-> Traded Hammer for Hakim the Drim
-> Traded Hakim for McBob (terrific move)

He's never made a trade where he doesn't clearly come out on top.

[mrknowitall215]

I hope that's just Cho doing his due dilligence. I have yet to see him make a negative trade in his tenure as the Bobcats GM

Every trade we've made since Cho took over has actually been very good- I just wish there were more of them.

I'm hoping Cho's able to pull off the Ben Gordon + Jeff Taylor to OKC for Jeremy Lamb + Kendrick Perkins trade from Presti. That deal just screams "Captain Obvious", where it'll work for both teams

Teams are sensitive about that balloon payment, and they are hoarding first-round picks more carefully than ever under the new CBA. As an example: Oklahoma City will almost certainly begin putting out feelers (if it hasn't already) for what it might be able to get by combining Kendrick Perkins and one of Jeremy Lamb, a future OKC first-round pick, and the Dallas first-rounder Oklahoma City acquired in the James Harden deal. There are complications with all of that. Perk has sunk to a level somewhere beyond terrible, and Lamb has generally played well this season; the Lamb–Reggie Jackson combo off the bench has been powerful.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... -omer-asik

[HornetJail]

I hope that's just Cho doing his due dilligence. I have yet to see him make a negative trade in his tenure as the Bobcats GM

Every trade we've made since Cho took over has actually been very good- I just wish there were more of them.

I'm hoping Cho's able to pull off the Ben Gordon + Jeff Taylor to OKC for Jeremy Lamb + Kendrick Perkins trade from Presti. That deal just screams "Captain Obvious", where it'll work for both teams

I hope we get that Dallas 1st if they pry Jeff from us.

[mrknowitall215]

Every trade we've made since Cho took over has actually been very good- I just wish there were more of them.

I'm hoping Cho's able to pull off the Ben Gordon + Jeff Taylor to OKC for Jeremy Lamb + Kendrick Perkins trade from Presti. That deal just screams "Captain Obvious", where it'll work for both teams

I hope we get that Dallas 1st if they pry Jeff from us.

That depend on how good Cho's negotiating and/or persuasion skills are

I think the Bulls might be able to give them a better offer than the Bobcats with Ben Gordon in terms of an expiring contract for Lamb & Perkins in return with Luol Deng, but there's a lot of variables & conflicts of interest between such a barter

[LamarMatic7]

Morey must think Asik is a all-star or something

He had one good year where he barely averaged a double-double and that's it.

Read the article to understand the context of that offer. And, come on, man, don't be so ignorant. When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense.

We got Biz who is gonna be better by next year at 22 years of age than Asik is right now at 27.

Unfortunately, I doubt that.

[mrknowitall215]

Morey must think Asik is a all-star or something

He had one good year where he barely averaged a double-double and that's it.

Read the article to understand the context of that offer. And, come on, man, don't be so ignorant. When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense.

We got Biz who is gonna be better by next year at 22 years of age than Asik is right now at 27.

Unfortunately, I doubt that.

I don't see no ignorance in 'catch20two''s response to Daryl Morey asking for two 1st rounders for Omer Asik. While Asik is solid, he's not exactly proven, and definitely not worth his near $15 million contract that he's due next year. The only "ignorant" thing I see is Morey asking a team for two 1st rounders in exchange for a bad contract. Let's not be so belligerent

As far as Bismack Biyombo vs Omer Asik. Let's compare a 21 year old Biyombo to a rookie Asik at 24 years old

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

I would be willing to bet & give Biyombo the benefit of the doubt to become better in 3 more years

[catch20two]

Morey must think Asik is a all-star or something

He had one good year where he barely averaged a double-double and that's it.

Read the article to understand the context of that offer. And, come on, man, don't be so ignorant. When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense.

We got Biz who is gonna be better by next year at 22 years of age than Asik is right now at 27.

Unfortunately, I doubt that.

I don't see no ignorance in 'catch20two''s response to Daryl Morey asking for two 1st rounders for Omer Asik. While Asik is solid, he's not exactly proven, and definitely not worth his near $15 million contract that he's due next year. The only "ignorant" thing I see is Morey asking a team for two 1st rounders in exchange for a bad contract. Let's not be so belligerent

As far as Bismack Biyombo vs Omer Asik. Let's compare a 21 year old Biyombo to a rookie Asik at 24 years old

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

I would be willing to bet & give Biyombo the benefit of the doubt to become better in 3 more years

Thank you for saving me a well thought out post. Exactly what you said.

[LamarMatic7]

Morey must think Asik is a all-star or something

He had one good year where he barely averaged a double-double and that's it.

Read the article to understand the context of that offer. And, come on, man, don't be so ignorant. When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense.

We got Biz who is gonna be better by next year at 22 years of age than Asik is right now at 27.

Unfortunately, I doubt that.

I don't see no ignorance in 'catch20two''s response to Daryl Morey asking for two 1st rounders for Omer Asik. While Asik is solid, he's not exactly proven, and definitely not worth his near $15 million contract that he's due next year. The only "ignorant" thing I see is Morey asking a team for two 1st rounders in exchange for a bad contract. Let's not be so belligerent

As far as Bismack Biyombo vs Omer Asik. Let's compare a 21 year old Biyombo to a rookie Asik at 24 years old

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

I would be willing to bet & give Biyombo the benefit of the doubt to become better in 3 more years

Alright, maybe "ignorant" was a bit too harsh. However...

First off, I was referring to "catch20two's" assessment of Asik as a guy who "barely averaged a double-double and that's it". Hence me saying "When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense". Calling Asik a guy who "barely averages a double-double and that's it" is a very superficial statement. The same sentence might as well be applied to someone like Nazr Mohammed at some point in his career. How many guys in the league actually average a double-double? Seven, eight? And how many also play elite defense? As Lowe said - in this day and age the contracts the likes of Asik and Sanders get are completely normal as they have the skills what are needed for a team to be very good.

Second off, why shouldn't he? Yes, it's most likely that he won't receive the two first-rounders, however, everybody knows how valuable Asik is and that there are few centers like him around. It's just a offer he threw out and from which he'll continue to haggle. The team that offers the best package will get Asik.

Third off, do you honestly see Bismack being capable of anchoring a legit NBA defense next year? You can't even compare him to a rookie Asik who came off the bench in Chicago. It isn't a fair comparison. Remember that the bench unit Bulls had was even stingier than their starters. Asik, Gibson, Brewer, Watson and whoever else was on that unit wrecked chaos. Please, don't put too much value into his averages of 3 points and 3 rebounds. It clearly doesn't tell the whole tale and isn't what Asik is about.

[mrknowitall215]

Alright, maybe "ignorant" was a bit too harsh. However...

First off, I was referring to "catch20two's" assessment of Asik as a guy who "barely averaged a double-double and that's it". Hence me saying "When it comes to Asik it clearly isn't about his averages in points and rebounds but defense". Calling Asik a guy who "barely averages a double-double and that's it" is a very superficial statement. The same sentence might as well be applied to someone like Nazr Mohammed at some point in his career. How many guys in the league actually average a double-double? Seven, eight? And how many also play elite defense? As Lowe said - in this day and age the contracts the likes of Asik and Sanders get are completely normal as they have the skills what are needed for a team to be very good.

Second off, why shouldn't he? Yes, it's most likely that he won't receive the two first-rounders, however, everybody knows how valuable Asik is and that there are few centers like him around. It's just a offer he threw out and from which he'll continue to haggle. The team that offers the best package will get Asik.

Third off, do you honestly see Bismack being capable of anchoring a legit NBA defense next year? You can't even compare him to a rookie Asik who came off the bench in Chicago. It isn't a fair comparison. Remember that the bench unit Bulls had was even stingier than their starters. Asik, Gibson, Brewer, Watson and whoever else was on that unit wrecked chaos. Please, don't put too much value into his averages of 3 points and 3 rebounds. It clearly doesn't tell the whole tale and isn't what Asik is about.

Asik is not even that good defensively as he's advertised. He's a average-to-just above average shot blocker. His defense in Chicago was more or so a product of Thib's system than him actually being a "anchor". I wouldn't consider him a "anchor" of any defense when he played less than 15 minutes per game. You can let that defensive rating fool you if you want to. If that's the case, then somebody should offer the Bobcats 'just one' 1st rounder for Jeff Adrien for his 96 defensive rating in 13.2 minutes per game



I wouldn't call Asik a defensive anchor when the Rockets were 16th in defensive efficiency (106.1) with him starting throughout all of last season, when they were 17th in defensive efficiency (105.2) with Samuel Dalembert 'anchoring' their defense the year before, unless you're saying that you'd be willing to trade 1st rounders for Dalembert too? Asik is a good defensive center, but not a 'anchor', or a game-changer

[LamarMatic7]

Asik is not even that good defensively as he's advertised.

Then why do all the advanced stats people advertise him as that good defensively?

His defense in Chicago was more or so a product of Thib's system than him actually being a "anchor". I wouldn't consider him a "anchor" of any defense when he played less than 15 minutes per game.

I didn't ever say that he was an anchor of the Bulls defense. Just mentioned that he was a part of a stingy line-up.

You can let that defensive rating fool you if you want to. If that's the case, then somebody should offer the Bobcats 'just one' 1st rounder for Jeff Adrien for his 96 defensive rating in 13.2 minutes per game

Nope, not using the defensive rating. I'm using the eye-test and on/off stats. Houston's defense was equivalent to our (worst in the league) whenever Asik left the court.

[LamarMatic7]

I wouldn't call Asik a defensive anchor when the Rockets were 16th in defensive efficiency (106.1) with him starting throughout all of last season, when they were 17th in defensive efficiency (105.2) with Samuel Dalembert 'anchoring' their defense the year before, unless you're saying that you'd be willing to trade 1st rounders for Dalembert too? Asik is a good defensive center, but not a 'anchor', or a game-changer

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't expect Rockets to be top10 in defensive efficiency when Asik is the only good defender they have, they play the highest pace in the league and the team reportedly just didn't try to fix things on that end of the court.

Houston fell apart whenever Asik left the court and he couldn't cover up for all their guard screw-ups. No such thing can be said for Dalembert.

[mrknowitall215]

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't expect Rockets to be top10 in defensive efficiency when Asik is the only good defender they have, they play the highest pace in the league and the team reportedly just didn't try to fix things on that end of the court.

Houston fell apart whenever Asik left the court and he couldn't cover up for all their guard screw-ups. No such thing can be said for Dalembert.

The exact same thing could be said for Dalembert 2 years ago when he was in his 30's. I would even argue that Dalembert was not only a better defender, but a better overall player than Asik is now, back then, which wasn't too long ago. That Rockets defense fell apart when Dalembert went to the bench. Dalembert was the only player on that roster not named Kyle Lowry and a DNP-Injured Marcus Camby that even attempted to play defense

Tyson Chandler is a game-changing defensive anchor. Omer Asik? Not so much

[LamarMatic7]

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't expect Rockets to be top10 in defensive efficiency when Asik is the only good defender they have, they play the highest pace in the league and the team reportedly just didn't try to fix things on that end of the court.

Houston fell apart whenever Asik left the court and he couldn't cover up for all their guard screw-ups. No such thing can be said for Dalembert.

That Rockets defense fell apart when Dalembert went to the bench.

Umm, no.. not exactly. There's only a 2 point difference in that Houston team with Dalembert on the court and them without Sammy on defense. The rest of the starting line-up faired well without him (Sammy played less minutes than them), the defense suffering a worse impact than when Dalembert didn't play when Luis Scola (!!!) hit the bench.

Meanwhile, the 2012-13 Houston team was the league's third worst on defense (my bad for saying THE worst previously, I made a mistake) when Asik wasn't on the court. And, as I said, that's on a team that had no defensive plan whatsoever and had starters (James Harden) that made their defense worse when he was on the court, a rare sight for a starting player with a big sample size on a playoff team that has a somewhat regular starting five.

[LamarMatic7]

By the way, I just wanted to say that this is fun, MrKnowItAll. I totally would love to do this as a job.

[mrknowitall215]

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't expect Rockets to be top10 in defensive efficiency when Asik is the only good defender they have, they play the highest pace in the league and the team reportedly just didn't try to fix things on that end of the court.

Houston fell apart whenever Asik left the court and he couldn't cover up for all their guard screw-ups. No such thing can be said for Dalembert.

That Rockets defense fell apart when Dalembert went to the bench.

Umm, no.. not exactly. There's only a 2 point difference in that Houston team with Dalembert on the court and them without Sammy on defense. The rest of the starting line-up faired well without him (Sammy played less minutes than them), the defense suffering a worse impact than when Dalembert didn't play when Luis Scola (!!!) hit the bench.

Meanwhile, the 2012-13 Houston team was the league's third worst on defense (my bad for saying THE worst previously, I made a mistake) when Asik wasn't on the court. And, as I said, that's on a team that had no defensive plan whatsoever and had starters (James Harden) that made their defense worse when he was on the court, a rare sight for a starting player with a big sample size on a playoff team that has a somewhat regular starting five.

Are we talking about 2011-12 Houston Rockets with Dalembert? Only one (1) player that averaged over 20 minutes per game & played at least half of that season was within 5 points of Dalembert's defensive rating, and that was Kyle Lowry