Fake Trade Thread III

[LamarMatic7]

That Rockets defense fell apart when Dalembert went to the bench.

Umm, no.. not exactly. There's only a 2 point difference in that Houston team with Dalembert on the court and them without Sammy on defense. The rest of the starting line-up faired well without him (Sammy played less minutes than them), the defense suffering a worse impact than when Dalembert didn't play when Luis Scola (!!!) hit the bench.

Meanwhile, the 2012-13 Houston team was the league's third worst on defense (my bad for saying THE worst previously, I made a mistake) when Asik wasn't on the court. And, as I said, that's on a team that had no defensive plan whatsoever and had starters (James Harden) that made their defense worse when he was on the court, a rare sight for a starting player with a big sample size on a playoff team that has a somewhat regular starting five.

Are we talking about 2011-12 Houston Rockets with Dalembert? Only one (1) player that averaged over 20 minutes per game & played at least half of that season was within 5 points of Dalembert's defensive rating, and that was Kyle Lowry

Yes, the 11-12 season.

[mrknowitall215]

By the way, I just wanted to say that this is fun, MrKnowItAll. I totally would love to do this as a job.

Me too. Nothing personal. "All is fair in love & basketball"

[LamarMatic7]

Click with your right mouse button to open the whole damn thing.

[mrknowitall215]

No way on Earth is NBA.com accurate with those defensive ratings (i.e. Luis Scola & Chase Budinger)

[LamarMatic7]

No way on Earth is NBA.com accurate with those defensive ratings (i.e. Luis Scola & Chase Budinger)

If they aren't, then who is?

All the analysts cite nba.com as their source for stats in columns.

Moreover, BK-Ref itself told me "yeah, we don't count up the exact number of possessions like nba.com does, so our stats can be off".

[mrknowitall215]

Yes, the 11-12 season.

I don't trust NBA.com advance stats before the merger with SAP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

[LamarMatic7]

But, hey, don't stop! Where's the spirit ?

It's just how it is with starting units on good teams. You have to be James Harden-bad for the team to have a worse defensive rating with you on the court.

[LamarMatic7]

Yes, the 11-12 season.

I don't trust NBA.com advance stats before the merger with SAP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

Zach Lowe used them before the merger. Don't you trust his numbers then?

Either way, this isn't the best evidence not to trust them. My screen shot was of on/off numbers that simply show how Sammy doesn't have that big of an impact. You're showing me a simple DefRTG. It's 101.0 on NBA.com for Dalembert. That's about the same.

[LamarMatic7]

By the way, how can you trust BK-Ref when they show that Biyombo has an offensive rating of 117 or whatever it was that caused a slight confusion in Biz's thread on this board?

[mrknowitall215]

Yes, the 11-12 season.

I don't trust NBA.com advance stats before the merger with SAP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

Zach Lowe used them before the merger. Don't you trust his numbers then?

Either way, this isn't the best evidence not to trust them. My screen shot was of on/off numbers that simply show how Sammy doesn't have that big of an impact. You're showing me a simple DefRTG. It's 101.0 on NBA.com for Dalembert. That's about the same.

Not before the merger

[mrknowitall215]

By the way, how can you trust BK-Ref when they show that Biyombo has an offensive rating of 117 or whatever it was that caused a slight confusion in Biz's thread on this board?

As sporadically as Biyombo come in & out of the game, and how often he's been getting to the free throw line, combined with how his shot blocking may lead to transition offense, I want to believe BK-Ref that his offensive rating could be that high. It's just a small sample size, therefore we cannot run with it as such

[LamarMatic7]

I don't trust NBA.com advance stats before the merger with SAP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

Zach Lowe used them before the merger. Don't you trust his numbers then?

Either way, this isn't the best evidence not to trust them. My screen shot was of on/off numbers that simply show how Sammy doesn't have that big of an impact. You're showing me a simple DefRTG. It's 101.0 on NBA.com for Dalembert. That's about the same.

Not before the merger

Wow... Don't take this the wrong way but to say that you think Zach Lowe had been using faulty stats all this time is unbelievable. So you can't trust any of his columns released before this season?

[LamarMatic7]

How about this then?

82games also count up the number of possessions for their database. Why do they also show that Dalembert's on/off stats aren't that impressive?

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112HOU.HTM

Or do you only trust BK-Ref? Not 82games, not nba.com, nothing else.

[mrknowitall215]

How about this then?

82games also count up the number of possessions for their database. Why do they also show that Dalembert's on/off stats aren't that impressive?

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112HOU.HTM

Or do you only trust BK-Ref? Not 82games, not nba.com, nothing else.

That 82games link doesn't show defensive rating/production, just on/off court net. That's null & void

[LamarMatic7]

By the way, how can you trust BK-Ref when they show that Biyombo has an offensive rating of 117 or whatever it was that caused a slight confusion in Biz's thread on this board?

As sporadically as Biyombo come in & out of the game, and how often he's been getting to the free throw line, combined with how his shot blocking may lead to transition offense, I want to believe BK-Ref that his offensive rating could be that high. It's just a small sample size, therefore we cannot run with it as such

Come on, man....

Do you understand how awesome an offensive rating of 119 (it is up to 119 now) is!?

How can we then score 92, 90 and 86 points in the three games where Biz played 30+ minutes?! Games in which, according to bk-ref, we had a pace of 82, 96 and 90.

According to their own damn stats we scored 90 points against the Cavs on a pace of 96 possessions per game, while with Biz's rating of 119 we should be around 120 points in these damn games!?

How the **** can this be true? We aren't even close to a 100 points in most games and don't tell me that whenever Biz hits the floor we go for fabulous scoring spurts.

This is simple math.

[LamarMatic7]

How about this then?

82games also count up the number of possessions for their database. Why do they also show that Dalembert's on/off stats aren't that impressive?

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112HOU.HTM

Or do you only trust BK-Ref? Not 82games, not nba.com, nothing else.

That 82games link doesn't show defensive rating/production, just on/off court net. That's null & void

So it's just a coincidence?

[mrknowitall215]

By the way, how can you trust BK-Ref when they show that Biyombo has an offensive rating of 117 or whatever it was that caused a slight confusion in Biz's thread on this board?

As sporadically as Biyombo come in & out of the game, and how often he's been getting to the free throw line, combined with how his shot blocking may lead to transition offense, I want to believe BK-Ref that his offensive rating could be that high. It's just a small sample size, therefore we cannot run with it as such

Come on, man....

Do you understand how awesome an offensive rating of 119 (it is up to 119 now) is!?

How can we then score 92, 90 and 86 points in the three games where Biz played 30+ minutes?! Games in which, according to bk-ref, we had a pace of 82, 96 and 90.

According to their own damn stats we scored 90 points against the Cavs on a pace of 96 possessions per game, while with Biz's rating of 119 we should be around 120 points in these damn games!?

How the **** can this be true? We aren't even close to a 100 points in most games and don't tell me that whenever Biz hits the floor we go for fabulous scoring spurts.

This is simple math.

[mrknowitall215]

How about this then?

82games also count up the number of possessions for their database. Why do they also show that Dalembert's on/off stats aren't that impressive?

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112HOU.HTM

Or do you only trust BK-Ref? Not 82games, not nba.com, nothing else.

That 82games link doesn't show defensive rating/production, just on/off court net. That's null & void

So it's just a coincidence?

We have conflicting sources of reasoning between BK-Ref & NBA.com. Therefore, it's a draw

[LamarMatic7]

And if you do trust nba.com this year, then why do they have Biz's OffRtg at 89!? How can it be a 30-point difference!?!?

Every player in the league is simply seven points per possession on offense off of Biz? Is that right?

[mrknowitall215]

And if you do trust nba.com this year, then why do they have Biz's OffRtg at 89!? How can it be a 30-point difference!?!?

Every player in the league is simply seven points per possession on offense off of Biz? Is that right?

If I trusted NBA.com, I would believe that playing Ben Gordon 30 minutes a night would be the difference between winning .750 and just under .500 like they are now with him only playing about 15 minutes a game since he's the biggest difference maker according to their advanced stats