Andre Roberson

[comingbacktousa]

Even if the owners paid 10 million more in salary(the actual amount they would be losing is significantly higher), billionaire or not 10 million dollars of annual income is a lot of income.

In OKC's case to say that they ruined any chance of playing in the finals again by getting rid of Harden is ridiculous. The team was better last year by every metric before Westbrook got hurt.

The owners were willing to pay the tax. They offered Harden an amount that would have put them into the tax. That extra 6 million could have ended up costing the ownership closer to 18+ million per due to tax penalties. Its okay for the owners to lose money but for Harden to demand more is ok? That is a pretty big double standard. So if a billionaire wants a 100k, they should have to pay 3x that because they are a billionaire and not a millionaire?

You can question the owners priorities, but what about Harden? Was money more important than winning a championship to Harden? He could have been traded to lottery team for all he knew and not have had the chance to compete for a title for atleast 5 more years.

[Thunderhead]

And yes I do realize that we MIGHT pay the tax one day, but thats beside the point. OKC blew up their team at the risk of never making it back to the Finals for financial reasons only. They're fortunate that they have Presti to bail them out.

Hah !

As if there's a separation between Presti and ownership ................ I've heard it all now.

And you still don't understand why trading Harden was necessary, because if you did, you would understand that Presti was a large part of the strategy.

I don't hang around here much , and get involved in these pointless arguments, but are you aware of the repeater tax penalties ? And not only those of the financial nature, but those that restrict the usage of exceptions to add role players ? Those are killer. Lakers, Nets, Knicks ... they are the only franchise's who are gonna buck the penalties under this new CBA.

I can promise you, that Presti did not want to go the route of being a perennial tax payer. He would've lost all flexibility in managing the team. The players he had signed, would be his team without any room to manuever. He would be in a somewhat similar position as the Nets are now, only not as severe as he would still have draft picks. It would just take one injury to a key player to send the season to mediocrity, and drive attendance down. And he would have no recourse to respond.

I don't think Thunder ownership, is the type of ownership, that's going to be willing to heavily subsidize the team , year after year after year. Just as Paul Allen has done in Portland. He puts about 30 mill a year into that team to cover losses, perenially. That won't happen in OKC. This team will be profitable here and stand on its on two feet, or it won't be here. Its the only way it can be sustained here.

But the ownership does not own this team , so they can take profits out and put it in their pocket. Its not about being stingy or miserly. They all have very successful businesses that offer a much higher rate of return, than an NBA team. As an investment, an NBA team sucks. They don't need to pull profits out to survive. Any profit the team makes, will be invested back into the team.

If Presti had gone to ownership, and told them he thought it necessary for the team to be successful, that they pay the tax. The owners would've done that. But just as we are seeing now, it wasn't necessary. And its a fact, that the team is in better condition now, on the court and financially, than if they had Harden.

I don't know how that can be argued to the contrary. Its becoming apparent , even to those with the thickest skulls.

[Thunderhead]

And more food for thought, you know who REALLY did not like the Harden trade ?

Agents.

They hated that. They want to see owners pay the luxury tax, that drives up salaries, which in turn drives up commissions. They don't wanna see anything that approximates a hard cap.

So OKC owners are gonna catch a lot of flak from some in the media, who do the agents bidding. Those in the media, that are the most critical of the OKC ownership group for being conservative financially, most likely are getting a lot of inside player/trade/contract info from agents. They scratch each other's backs.

OKC owners get smeared with the adjective " cheap " , when they really just smarter than the average bears.

[theokie]

I can promise you, that Presti did not want to go the route of being a perennial tax payer. He would've lost all flexibility in managing the team. The players he had signed, would be his team without any room to manuever. He would be in a somewhat similar position as the Nets are now, only not as severe as he would still have draft picks. It would just take one injury to a key player to send the season to mediocrity, and drive attendance down. And he would have no recourse to respond.

But the ownership does not own this team , so they can take profits out and put it in their pocket. Its not about being stingy or miserly. They all have very successful businesses that offer a much higher rate of return, than an NBA team. As an investment, an NBA team sucks. They don't need to pull profits out to survive. Any profit the team makes, will be invested back into the team.

Why do you need flexibility to make moves when you have 3 of the top 10 players in the league and another guy in the top 20-25? All under 25. Just sit back and enjoy at that point. You lost all credibility when you compared that squad to the Nets situation fyi.

And you really think owning an NBA team is a poor investment? You do know that the average value of an NBA franchise increases 10-20 million annually, and 99% of the time the team makes a profit at the end of the year. If thats a horrible investment to you, I'd love to know what a good one is. In the modern era, no owner has EVER bought an NBA team and later sold it for less money than what they paid for.

And what on earth are you talking about that they are not making money? Seriously... the value of the franchise has increased 150 million since they bought it. They generate 30 million more annually. You're really that delusional to think that none of that will go into their pockets?

Is Utah phx etc etc trying to win a ship...no they are tanking to get a player to sale tickets etc. some will try..some just want to make some money.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

No they are trying to win a championship.

I think it's ridiculous for someone who has no skin in the game to call owners cheap for playing the cba game wisely.

Really? But you can call James Harden cheap?

And more food for thought, you know who REALLY did not like the Harden trade ?

Agents.

You're joking right? Harden got paid the full max (5 year 80 million) as opposed to 4 years 50-55 million. I'm pretty sure the agents want top talents to get paid what they deserve, as opposed to taking pay cuts.



Anyway, i can tell i'm arguing a losing battle with you people. Apparently you guys drank the kool-aid and will believe anything that makes you feel better about it. Stop reading the daily oklahoman. I'll leave you with this.

From Deadspin:
"Fans and media treat as the natural order of things the willful decision by a rich man to damage the quality of his product in order to make himself marginally richer. This is one hilarious feature of American sports—we not only watch sports leagues that incentivize their franchises to produce an inferior product, lest they spend too much money on the talent; we cheer for the cost-saving. We've created a derivative sport out of watching capologists monkey around with exemptions. We grade transactions according to how much money they'll save their owners."

[Podirk]

Is Utah phx etc etc trying to win a ship...no they are tanking to get a player to sale tickets etc. some will try..some just want to make some money.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

No they are trying to win a championship.

I think it's ridiculous for someone who has no skin in the game to call owners cheap for playing the cba game wisely.

Really? But you can call James Harden cheap?

Where did I call James Harden cheap?? I think it's fine for him to get what he 'deserves'...but does the same not apply to the owners?

[Podirk]

Stricter tax levels
0-5 mill over 1.5 Xs overage
5-10 mill over 1.75 Xs overage
10-15 mill over 2.5 Xs coverage
15-20 mill over 3.25 Xs coverage
20+ mill over 3.75 Xs coverage (add an extra .5 for every 5 mill over that)

Repeater tax is applied when the team is in the tax for 3 of the last 4 years (adds 1.0 to each of the above multipliers).

So with KD and Westbrook extensions coming soon, Thunder want to be sure they can put there best feet forward those years (along with sustainable success).

Drinking kool-aid is not looking at something logically and finding the best, most likely scenario.

Reggie has one more year on rookie scale (after this season)
Lamb and Perry the year after Reggie (the same year as Durant).
Adams and Westbrook a year after that.

With the majority of the above being a huge part of the core of this team....planning for paying those players makes sense.

[Thunderhead]

I can promise you, that Presti did not want to go the route of being a perennial tax payer. He would've lost all flexibility in managing the team. The players he had signed, would be his team without any room to manuever. He would be in a somewhat similar position as the Nets are now, only not as severe as he would still have draft picks. It would just take one injury to a key player to send the season to mediocrity, and drive attendance down. And he would have no recourse to respond.

But the ownership does not own this team , so they can take profits out and put it in their pocket. Its not about being stingy or miserly. They all have very successful businesses that offer a much higher rate of return, than an NBA team. As an investment, an NBA team sucks. They don't need to pull profits out to survive. Any profit the team makes, will be invested back into the team.

Why do you need flexibility to make moves when you have 3 of the top 10 players in the league and another guy in the top 20-25? All under 25. Just sit back and enjoy at that point. You lost all credibility when you compared that squad to the Nets situation fyi.

And you really think owning an NBA team is a poor investment? You do know that the average value of an NBA franchise increases 10-20 million annually, and 99% of the time the team makes a profit at the end of the year. If thats a horrible investment to you, I'd love to know what a good one is. In the modern era, no owner has EVER bought an NBA team and later sold it for less money than what they paid for.

And what on earth are you talking about that they are not making money? Seriously... the value of the franchise has increased 150 million since they bought it. They generate 30 million more annually. You're really that delusional to think that none of that will go into their pockets?

Is Utah phx etc etc trying to win a ship...no they are tanking to get a player to sale tickets etc. some will try..some just want to make some money.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

No they are trying to win a championship.

I think it's ridiculous for someone who has no skin in the game to call owners cheap for playing the cba game wisely.

Really? But you can call James Harden cheap?

And more food for thought, you know who REALLY did not like the Harden trade ?

Agents.

You're joking right? Harden got paid the full max (5 year 80 million) as opposed to 4 years 50-55 million. I'm pretty sure the agents want top talents to get paid what they deserve, as opposed to taking pay cuts.



Anyway, i can tell i'm arguing a losing battle with you people. Apparently you guys drank the kool-aid and will believe anything that makes you feel better about it. Stop reading the daily oklahoman. I'll leave you with this.

From Deadspin:
"Fans and media treat as the natural order of things the willful decision by a rich man to damage the quality of his product in order to make himself marginally richer. This is one hilarious feature of American sports—we not only watch sports leagues that incentivize their franchises to produce an inferior product, lest they spend too much money on the talent; we cheer for the cost-saving. We've created a derivative sport out of watching capologists monkey around with exemptions. We grade transactions according to how much money they'll save their owners."

Hey, ............... you really believe that the Heat can win back to back Champs, without being able to sign the Ray Allens, the Mike Millers, etc ??

No way. Go educate youself on the CBA. Larry Coon has an excellent site, Google it and then learn something, then come back and talk.

And man, you've introduced a really new concept, the appreciation of the value of a franchise. I first heard of this concept in 1974, from by Business Finance instructor in college. That owners of franchises did not make money from operfations , but appreciation of the value.

Gee, you some kinda financial whiz , huh ?

But ....... there's only two ways to monetize that equity in their teams, either sell the team or borrow against the equity. And seeing how most want to be owners of a team first, then selling accomplishes little for them.

And yes, there are many investments much better than waiting for years and years , then sell your team to realize some profit, how much exactly , is really not known. Especially for the owners of the Thunder, they have investment opportunities avalable to them that some little peon writers for Deadspin can not even imagine. These guys can manage their own hedge funds. Deadspin pays that joker of a writer, a fricken pentence, if anything at all. What a joke ?? If journalists knew anything about money, they would not be journalists, they would have money instead of working in the lowest paid profession in America that requires a college degree ( although these sports hacks probably don't have to have a degree ) .

Yeah, when it comes to knowing about money, I rank sports writers as the best source that exists. What a joke. Some liberal journalist wants to tell me about rich men ............. hahahaha

[Thunderhead]

And you gotta be kiddin me, Aubrey McClendon just raised over $2 billion dollars to start an oil/gas firm.

And The Okie here, thinks McClendon is all about puling out a few million per year from the Thunder.

Hey Bud, he donates that much money to worthy causes every year.

Same with the Gaylord family.

And the Record family probably has more money than either McClendon or the Gaylords.

Hey Okie, pull your head out of this small time sports forum, and look around man. You are a small thinker.

[Thunderhead]

And the real joke here ........... is these sports writers and fans ............


WHO THINK AUBREY MCCLENDON IS CHEAP !!!!


BWAAHAHAAHAAHA !!

That's the first clue that they know nothing.

[Thunderhead]

And good grief, I forgot one more thing ............. nothing wrong with reading The Oklahoman, as I'm sure The Okie is not aware, but the Gaylords sold The Oklahoman two or three years ago.

Its owned by Phillip Anschultz a Denver business man,

Philip Frederick Anschutz (/ˈænʃuːts/ an-shoots; born December 28, 1939) is an American entrepreneur. Anschutz bought out his father's drilling company, Circle A Drilling, in 1961 and earned large returns in Wyoming. He has invested in stocks, real estate and railroads. He then began investing in entertainment companies, co-founding Major League Soccer as well as multiple teams, including the Los Angeles Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the New York / New Jersey Metro Stars. Anschutz owns stakes in the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and venues including the Staples Center, O2 Arena, and the Home Depot Center. Anschutz also invests in family films such as The Chronicles of Narnia. Forbes ranks him the 38th richest person in the U.S. with an estimated net worth of $10 billion as of 2013.[3]

He has no connections to the Thunder.

[theokie]

Hey, ............... you really believe that the Heat can win back to back Champs, without being able to sign the Ray Allens, the Mike Millers, etc ??

Yeah, when it comes to knowing about money, I rank sports writers as the best source that exists. What a joke. Some liberal journalist wants to tell me about rich men ............. hahahaha

I don't get what you're arguing here. Miami could have won without ALlen and Miller I guess, but they sure as heck made it easier. Miami is also a tax payer.

I'm getting the financial information from Forbes. Are they not credible? I guess i should just trust someone like you because you seem to be pretty level headed

And you gotta be kiddin me, Aubrey McClendon just raised over $2 billion dollars to start an oil/gas firm.

And The Okie here, thinks McClendon is all about puling out a few million per year from the Thunder.

Hey Bud, he donates that much money to worthy causes every year.

Same with the Gaylord family.

And the Record family probably has more money than either McClendon or the Gaylords.

Hey Okie, pull your head out of this small time sports forum, and look around man. You are a small thinker.

Are you five?
New entities need investors.
Yes he makes money from the Thunder.
I realize he donates to charity, i also don't get how that is relevant.

And good grief, I forgot one more thing ............. nothing wrong with reading The Oklahoman, as I'm sure The Okie is not aware, but the Gaylords sold The Oklahoman two or three years ago.

Its owned by Phillip Anschultz a Denver business man,

Philip Frederick Anschutz (/ˈænʃuːts/ an-shoots; born December 28, 1939) is an American entrepreneur. Anschutz bought out his father's drilling company, Circle A Drilling, in 1961 and earned large returns in Wyoming. He has invested in stocks, real estate and railroads. He then began investing in entertainment companies, co-founding Major League Soccer as well as multiple teams, including the Los Angeles Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the New York / New Jersey Metro Stars. Anschutz owns stakes in the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and venues including the Staples Center, O2 Arena, and the Home Depot Center. Anschutz also invests in family films such as The Chronicles of Narnia. Forbes ranks him the 38th richest person in the U.S. with an estimated net worth of $10 billion as of 2013.[3]

He has no connections to the Thunder.

The Daily Oklahoma is pretty biased toward the thunder. They are sponsors after all....

[theokie]

Is Utah phx etc etc trying to win a ship...no they are tanking to get a player to sale tickets etc. some will try..some just want to make some money.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app

No they are trying to win a championship.

I think it's ridiculous for someone who has no skin in the game to call owners cheap for playing the cba game wisely.

Really? But you can call James Harden cheap?

Where did I call James Harden cheap?? I think it's fine for him to get what he 'deserves'...but does the same not apply to the owners?

I think you inferred it here.

-Is it stingy for a player to not take less?

[Thunderhead]

Hey, ............... you really believe that the Heat can win back to back Champs, without being able to sign the Ray Allens, the Mike Millers, etc ??

Yeah, when it comes to knowing about money, I rank sports writers as the best source that exists. What a joke. Some liberal journalist wants to tell me about rich men ............. hahahaha

I don't get what you're arguing here. Miami could have won without ALlen and Miller I guess, but they sure as heck made it easier. Miami is also a tax payer.

I'm getting the financial information from Forbes. Are they not credible? I guess i should just trust someone like you because you seem to be pretty level headed

And you gotta be kiddin me, Aubrey McClendon just raised over $2 billion dollars to start an oil/gas firm.

And The Okie here, thinks McClendon is all about puling out a few million per year from the Thunder.

Hey Bud, he donates that much money to worthy causes every year.

Same with the Gaylord family.

And the Record family probably has more money than either McClendon or the Gaylords.

Hey Okie, pull your head out of this small time sports forum, and look around man. You are a small thinker.

Are you five?
New entities need investors.
Yes he makes money from the Thunder.
I realize he donates to charity, i also don't get how that is relevant.

And good grief, I forgot one more thing ............. nothing wrong with reading The Oklahoman, as I'm sure The Okie is not aware, but the Gaylords sold The Oklahoman two or three years ago.

Its owned by Phillip Anschultz a Denver business man,

Philip Frederick Anschutz (/ˈænʃuːts/ an-shoots; born December 28, 1939) is an American entrepreneur. Anschutz bought out his father's drilling company, Circle A Drilling, in 1961 and earned large returns in Wyoming. He has invested in stocks, real estate and railroads. He then began investing in entertainment companies, co-founding Major League Soccer as well as multiple teams, including the Los Angeles Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the New York / New Jersey Metro Stars. Anschutz owns stakes in the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and venues including the Staples Center, O2 Arena, and the Home Depot Center. Anschutz also invests in family films such as The Chronicles of Narnia. Forbes ranks him the 38th richest person in the U.S. with an estimated net worth of $10 billion as of 2013.[3]

He has no connections to the Thunder.

The Daily Oklahoma is pretty biased toward the thunder. They are sponsors after all....

Bwaahahaha

OK dood, whatever you say .......................... hahaha

Thanks for the laugh.

[Podirk]

Very interesting.....

Some how I made a statement in a question. (I 100% think Harden wanted to be the man, even if he got the 4/60 he would have been 3rd fiddle, there is only so much ball to go around). I was more referring to the Millers, Wrights, etc that everyone freaked out about this summer because Thunder have no bench (hindsight but wow I like the Thunder bench). Going into the tax one year early (if you looked at my posting referring to the repeater) can really cost you come KD and RW contract time. So a few million into the tax this season, could essentially cost you resigning one of KD or RW.

per cbafaq.com Going 12 mill into the tax this season would cost 21 mill and some change, with the repeater come KD and RW contract time that 21 mill goes to 35 mill range. So that extra 12 mill this year (eating into the 30 mill profit) and the 21 mill tax (finishing off that profit) is why Presti and Co operate the way they do.



It's an interesting concept for fans to imply that owners are cheap for not going into the tax, when said fans want them too (without the knowledge of the teams short and long term goals, let alone the CBA). It's also interesting that said fans don't put any blame on the players.

A championship has to be an organizational focus. Owners, coaches, players.
If a player isn't expected to take less then they have earned (seems logical to me), why is it ridiculed that ownership should take less then they have earned (again, seems logical to me)?

[Podirk]

Reported that Thabo and Adams are game time decisions. Hoping to see a lil more of Andre before he scurries off to Tulsa.

[comingbacktousa]

Thabo is out tonight. Kobe is playing pg and guarding Westbrook according to the general board. All the young players should get a lot of minutes tonight with the lakers pace and depleted roster.

[theokie]

Gotta like Robersons energy. Played good D, tied up Kobe on one of the first possessions, made some good rebounds and hustle plays. He's an athletic freak.

BUT, he looks lost and quite frankly nervous on offense. Hopefully he gets there, but i'm glad he's getting some real minutes.

[Podirk]

Gotta like Robersons energy. Played good D, tied up Kobe on one of the first possessions, made some good rebounds and hustle plays. He's an athletic freak.

BUT, he looks lost and quite frankly nervous on offense. Hopefully he gets there, but i'm glad he's getting some real minutes.

I'm on the road and glad he is getting another game in OKC. Hopefully he can work on his shot in Tulsa once thabo is back.
He is one reason I plan on watching the whole game when I finally get home.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[comingbacktousa]

He had a terrible 3 with his feet not set at all but other than that looked ok. His offensive rebounding is very good for a wing player. I think he pulled in 2 but was in on several more. That really makes up for short comings offensively if he can create some 1 or 2 extra possesions a game. Assume he starts for Thabo next year, creating a couple more possessions a game for Durant and Westbrook is huge. One thing thats interesting is if Brooks will start having Durant release and Roberson stay in to help with defense rebounding as well. Obviously getting Durant in transition is a very good thing. Long ways off from this but something interesting.

[ThunderUp1234]

okie, how many teams outside of the 2-3 big market teams have 3 max players (80+ million), and 1 more at 45-50 million.

Name them, i will like to hear it.