Leafs 2013-14 Regular Season Thread

[Crowned]

BTW, I wasn't entirely blaming Clarkson for the increase in penalties but he sure does take some of the stupidest penalties at some of the worse times.

Before he was came back, the team was a little more disciplined. It's a combination of things, there were injuries and some guys pushed up to bigger roles that just aren't meant for it can also lead to penalties because they're on the ice more and at times that just causes them to take them. But Clarkson is very undisciplined and that can also spread to a team. Especially if the coach is supporting that player.

I don't know, I still like Clarkson as a player. I think he makes an ever bigger impact in the dressing room from what I've seen in him. I spoke to him at a corporate/charity golf tournament at work this past summer, and he seemed beyond excited to be here. I didn't even know who the guy was at the time, until I put two and two together (i.e- talking about new jersey, and now being in Toronto).

He's had his chances, but hasn't capitalized on them. I'm more inclined to give him some more time to see what he can do.

[whysoserious]

I don't know, I still like Clarkson as a player. I think he makes an ever bigger impact in the dressing room from what I've seen in him. I spoke to him at a corporate/charity golf tournament at work this past summer, and he seemed beyond excited to be here. I didn't even know who the guy was at the time, until I put two and two together (i.e- talking about new jersey, and now being in Toronto).

He's had his chances, but hasn't capitalized on them. I'm more inclined to give him some more time to see what he can do.

All that is fair, but if he's not scoring (and yes he's getting chances), taking dumb penalites (as he's prone to do) is that off-set by some of those leadership qualities you talk about in the dressing room?

I don't mind Clarkson being a target like he was last summer, but we way overpaid on money and term for what essentially is a third line player. As Yogi mentioned you may as well have kept Grabo at that money.

It's poor cap management IMO. His worth may show up in the playoffs, but usually guys like Clarkson can be found cheaper.

[Ado05]

It isnt all Clarkson's fault, imo. If Randy put him in the same or similar role he had in NJ, he would be producing, but for some reason Carlyle kept putting him out there in the bottom 6. Now thats theres people injured, he's got a shot in the top 6, but again, no skilled players around him. He's not going to score goals unless he's got skilled players around him.

[whysoserious]

It isnt all Clarkson's fault, imo. If Randy put him in the same or similar role he had in NJ, he would be producing, but for some reason Carlyle kept putting him out there in the bottom 6. Now thats theres people injured, he's got a shot in the top 6, but again, no skilled players around him. He's not going to score goals unless he's got skilled players around him.

When everyone is healthy who does he play over in the top 6? Kessel and JVR is a def no. Then you have Kadri, Bozak, Lupul. That's 5 of your top 6 right there. Then you have Raymond (who's actually producing) and Clarkson.

It's definitely not all Clarkson's fault but he also hasn't shown he deserves a top 6 spot either.

And what does it mean that he's not going to score unless there's skilled players around him? Is he not skilled enough to impact the game? Maybe third line is exactly where he should be but by playing a bigger role in NJ you naturally produce with better players around. Look at Bozak, dude is not a true number one center, but he produces at a decent clip because of the wingers he plays with.

This again, is not meant as an indictment of Clarkson or Bozak, but management for paying them well above what their capabilities are.

[YogiStewart]

Clarkson to get a hearing for his shoulder to the head. it didn't look that horrible to me, but i'm thinking that he'll get 2 games regardless.
the good news? leafs had their best record when he was serving his 10 game suspension.
december may end up producing a record more glib than i initially forecasted. wow.

*edit* Clarkson gets 2 games. He's actually going down as one of the worst FA signings in Leafs' history. suspended 12 out of 84 possible games with the chance that more suspensions will come!. don't want to say that i told you so, but this team is so bloody transparent to non-homers. we know which way the cart will roll (unless it is a lockout-shortened season. heh)

[Ado05]

It isnt all Clarkson's fault, imo. If Randy put him in the same or similar role he had in NJ, he would be producing, but for some reason Carlyle kept putting him out there in the bottom 6. Now thats theres people injured, he's got a shot in the top 6, but again, no skilled players around him. He's not going to score goals unless he's got skilled players around him.

When everyone is healthy who does he play over in the top 6? Kessel and JVR is a def no. Then you have Kadri, Bozak, Lupul. That's 5 of your top 6 right there. Then you have Raymond (who's actually producing) and Clarkson.

It's definitely not all Clarkson's fault but he also hasn't shown he deserves a top 6 spot either.

And what does it mean that he's not going to score unless there's skilled players around him? Is he not skilled enough to impact the game? Maybe third line is exactly where he should be but by playing a bigger role in NJ you naturally produce with better players around. Look at Bozak, dude is not a true number one center, but he produces at a decent clip because of the wingers he plays with.

This again, is not meant as an indictment of Clarkson or Bozak, but management for paying them well above what their capabilities are.

The guy is on the third line in a shut down role. Carlyle is doing what he did to Grabo, and thats not putting him in a spot to succeed. Simple as that, really.

Some players, like Clarkson and Bozak, wont produce because they arent skilled enough to do it themselves. Sure, Clarkson is overpaid, but he still got market value, so i'm not even that mad at the deal.

Doesnt help that he barely gets any PP time, either.

[whysoserious]

Whatever the role, I asked a simple question, who's he playing over in the top 6 forwards? He hasn't even proven in his time in Toronto to earn that type of role and he just got his second suspension of the year.

At least Grabo was a skilled player being put in the wrong role, what the heck is Clarkson to deserve so much leeway. He's one of those intangibles guys (though it's arguable if it ends up a net positive as Yogi mentioned) but he's just not a skilled top 6 forward but he's being paid like a first line player.

And you should absolutely be mad at the deal. If that's the market value, you walk away. That kind of money could have been spent on an actual top 6 forward that this team lacks or used to improve the defense.

[whysoserious]

Leafs down 3-0 to one of the worse teams in the Panthers. This team cannot defend at all and gets outshot even by these poor teams. This team is a mess defensively and I gotta call out Carlyle on this too. He may not have all the players he wants for whatever style it is but defensively it's a gong show right now.

[YogiStewart]

last 2 games of December are winable.
that would be a 5-9 month.
with Smith injured and D'Amigo out, this team doesn't just have it's warts exposed, it's looking for volunteers to come on down and show their warts.

Rangers have 2 games in hand and are 2 points back.
Leafs play the Rangers this week.
Leafs could realistically be in 11th come Xmas

[LLJ]

Looks like that regression to the Advanced Stats Mean is finally happening.

[kaulkhara15]

Nice bounce back game. Reimer backed up his words.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I feel like I'm close to my nightmare happening, where Gardiner is traded and Dion is extended for some ridiculous 7 year, cap killing deal. Then the mainstream media gives the thumbs up.

[whysoserious]

I feel like I'm close to my nightmare happening, where Gardiner is traded and Dion is extended for some ridiculous 7 year, cap killing deal. Then the mainstream media gives the thumbs up.

I'd rather they just walk away from Dion and let someone else pay him the big bucks. Ideally you'd like to deal him if the decision is to not sign him but you won't get much.

Will you be able to replace Dion covering the minutes he covers, playing against the guys he plays and everything? Absolutely not, there's no one on the market after that. But you cannot pay Dion 7 million for the length he wants. Yes, the cap will go up and so his number would look less.

All you can do is hope your young guys develop, pay Franson some decent money and hope an opportunity presents itself like when Suter hit the market and you can land someone down the road.

This team really isn't ready to contend anyways so why lock in to a player like Phaneuf?

[Ado05]

I feel like I'm close to my nightmare happening, where Gardiner is traded and Dion is extended for some ridiculous 7 year, cap killing deal. Then the mainstream media gives the thumbs up.

I'd rather they just walk away from Dion and let someone else pay him the big bucks. Ideally you'd like to deal him if the decision is to not sign him but you won't get much.

Will you be able to replace Dion covering the minutes he covers, playing against the guys he plays and everything? Absolutely not, there's no one on the market after that. But you cannot pay Dion 7 million for the length he wants. Yes, the cap will go up and so his number would look less.

All you can do is hope your young guys develop, pay Franson some decent money and hope an opportunity presents itself like when Suter hit the market and you can land someone down the road.

This team really isn't ready to contend anyways so why lock in to a player like Phaneuf?

LOL.

Dion leaving would make our D even weaker than it already is. Everyone knows he's not a #1 d-man, but he's a fantastic #2. Plus, he's making 6.5 and the rumours (from TSN) is that would be a deal like years 7 mill. .5 isnt that much of a raise.

Theres no one in this system thats expected to make as big as an impact as Phaneuf. Not even Rielly.

I'd much rather let Franson walk than Phaneuf.

And you lock a player like Phaneuf up because of the same reason you lock up Kessel. They're good. They're guys you NEED to have when you want to contend.

[whysoserious]

LOL.

Dion leaving would make our D even weaker than it already is. Everyone knows he's not a #1 d-man, but he's a fantastic #2. Plus, he's making 6.5 and the rumours (from TSN) is that would be a deal like years 7 mill. .5 isnt that much of a raise.

Theres no one in this system thats expected to make as big as an impact as Phaneuf. Not even Rielly.

I'd much rather let Franson walk than Phaneuf.

And you lock a player like Phaneuf up because of the same reason you lock up Kessel. They're good. They're guys you NEED to have when you want to contend.

I don't even disagree that it would make the D weaker, but this is a chance you have to take. Lou Lamouriella would have no problem walking away from Dion. That's good cap management. He's not a top 5 defensemen, there's only 4 current d-men that make over 7 million and Dion is not even close to them. The fact he makes 6.5 million now makes no difference, he's overpaid now as is.

Can Dion get 7 million on the open market? Absolutely, there's no denying that and the market sets your value. But that doesn't mean you fork over the money. And at least with Kessel he's young enough still and one of the top scoring wingers in the game. You can justify that deal.

But you can't pay Dion and still address the other defensive issues. Pay Franson 3-4 million, on a shorter deal, move on from Dion, hope to find some short term players as vets to fill the gap and you may find a deal for someone better or be able to sign someone a year or two later.

This team is not contending, why overpay. it's a deal that the team will undoubtedly regret in a year or two and we ain't winning a title in that brief window.

[SharoneWright]

what the heck is Clarkson to deserve so much leeway.

a very big contract.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Gardiner is already having a much better year than Dion. He makes as many boneheaded mistakes, too, but he's young and doesn't wear the "C", so he gets called out for it and will be traded unfairly. This is another Alex Steen situation where we give up on a clearly talented kid because he doesn't play a bruising game and the team isn't winning as much as management thinks it should. Even if they don't trade him this year, they're clearly shopping him and have effectively "given up on him."

I think Dion's really grounded his game this year, but not good enough to warrant a 7-8 year deal at that cap hit. The Leafs D right now is in shambles because Franson has regressed, Fraser was getting too many minutes and his game he's been one of the worst defensemen in the whole league this year, and Reilly was rushed/is too young. So Dion shouldn't take the penalty for some awful coaching/management decisions, but he shouldn't be overpaid based on his relative worth to this team right now. In two years Reilly and Gardiner will be so much better than him and deserving of his top dog minutes. Guys like Matt Finn, Stuart Percy and Peter Grannberg will be breaking in. We can use spot veteran defensive D men on short-term deals until then. There's actually several really strong UFA D- men that might be in the 30-40 age range that we could overpay for shorter term. IMO, it's a different situation than Kessel, who had proven to be one of the most reliable, consistent young goal scorers in the NHL.

[whysoserious]

This team has like 2, maybe 3 regulation wins in 6 weeks. That's absolutely horrible.

They are wasting great goaltending.

I think Damien Cox made a good point about this team. We all know they aren't contender material yet but because they had that playoff appearance last year and then took Boston to 7 and almost knocked them out, people have higher expectations for what this team should be doing by now. They're clearly not ready.

Now is not the time for rash decisions like trading Gardiner unless you're getting a young player back that has just as much upside. Now is not the time to make a huge money commitment to Dion, the entire defense needs an overhaul and you're already in a tough cap position.

Now is actually the time for some patience. You need to upgrade the 5-6 defense spots this season through small trades.

Also, why the eff does Carlyle insist on playing Reilly and Gardiner together? Two d-men that are more offensive minded and always looking to jump in the rush. You're not doing them favours playing them together. Put Gardiner with Phaneuf and Reilly with Gunnarson.

[YogiStewart]

so apparently the Leafs and Phaneuf are close to signing a 7 year/$49 mil deal.
That's right. Phaneuf will be paid $7 mil/year. for 7 years.
that's pretty LOL worthy.
i mean,i can understand someone arguing that Phaneuf is worth upper-eschelon D-man money. i wouldn't be cool with dedicating $6 mil/year to him. i'd argue that if he walked, you don't lose all that much. he eats ice time but doesn't excel at anything other than that.
if the cap doesn't grow in the upcoming years, that contract will really, really, really hurt.
just to compare, Chara's getting $8 mil/year. would you say that chara's marginally better or significantly better than Phaneuf?

[TheRealistGM]

Lol wtf....Wouldn't the whole point of giving him a long term deal be to give him much less money on a per year basis