How Much is McCarthy Holding Rodgers Back?

Mags FTW · Post #1 » by **Mags FTW** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:09 pm

This question needs to be asked now. If these are some of the best gameplans M3 can come up with for Flynn, that's pretty pathetic.

Balls2TheWalls · Post #2 » by **Balls2TheWalls** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:09 pm

I think that a true west coast guru could put up Broncos style numbers with this offense.

Mags FTW · Post #3 » by **Mags FTW** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:12 pm

Balls2TheWalls wrote:I think that a true west coast guru could put up Broncos style numbers with this offense.

The thought of Holmgren and Rodgers makes me dizzy. In a good way.

I need to go sit down...

Post #4 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:26 pm

I'd love to see someone else calling plays next year.

jimmybones · Post #5 » by **jimmybones** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:36 pm

It's getting pretty scary to see just how much Rodgers bailed this entire team out.

whatthe_buck!? · Post #6 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:20 am

I just wanted to add that it took until the last two defensive series to bench Brad Jones and Jennings for good in favor of Lattimore and richardson and in both of those series our d finally looked competent. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I honestly don't think so as Jones and Jennings were a huge part of basically every horrible series the entire game.

That said, even though I'm frustrated with the coaching I feel like we should wait on this discussion until the season is definitely over. Not even because I think it's inappropriate to question coaches during the season, but moreso because Rodgers could come back and carry MM to another Super Bowl and then we will all look like idiots no matter how legitimate our concerns, criticisms and arguments happen to be...

Post #7 » by **humanrefutation** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:00 am

I think it was Mags who started the thread in 2010 titled something like "The Packers will never win a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy as head coach."

We all remember how that ended.

And then he starts this thread and the Packers proceed to drop 34 in the second half.

I guess what I'm saying is...thanks, Mags.

Mags FTW · Post #8 » by **Mags FTW** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:13 am

I still stand by my feelings that Rodgers would be bananas with a better play-caller. One half where Dallas imploded doesn't make up for the first half, the Detroit debacle, Philly, etc.

whatthe_buck!? · Post #9 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:18 am

humanrefutation wrote:I think it was Mags who started the thread in 2010 titled something like "The Packers will never win a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy as head coach."

We all remember how that ended.

And then he starts this thread and the Packers proceed to drop 34 in the second half.

I guess what I'm saying is...thanks, Mags.

Wasn't that Rilamann?
But if was mags, props to him for trying to recreate the 2010 juju, we need all the good luck we can muster just like 2010

th87 · Post #10 » by **th87** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:25 pm

Incredible. McCarthy helped make Rodgers.

MM is an innovative offensive mind and was one of the first adopters of the wildcat formation (with Driver), and the two TE offense that the Patriots picked up (the Packers couldn't stick with it because of injury and personnel). He knows what he's doing.

He's already cleaned up Flynn's mechanics and has made him a better QB than he was only weeks ago.

Ron Swanson · Post #11 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:43 pm

I love how this rhetorically asked question gives no room for disagreement. "How much" is McCarthy holding his star QB back? McCarthy has Matt Flynn looking like an above average starting QB. The same Matt Flynn that was cut by two bad teams in a span of 3 weeks. Yeah, sounds like he really "holds back" the potential of his quarterbacks :roll:

Coming from someone that rips McCarthy regularly for his sometimes Reagan-esque conservative philosophy, I think this thread is entirely premature and seems to reek of personal bias.

McCarthy has gotten quality QB play out of Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn......think about that for a second. Matt Flynn and Scott freaking Tolzien! The problem since Rodgers went down has been and will continue to be the pathetic defense and our clueless D coordinator. The only person on our staff that should be losing his play calling duties (and job) is Capers.

Mags FTW · Post #12 » by **Mags FTW** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:McCarthy has gotten quality QB play out of Scott Tolzien

Really? Was that the game he threw two picks, three picks, or got benched?

Newz · Post #13 » by **Newz** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:22 pm

I don't think he's holding him back at all.

Our offense is consistently great, I'm pretty sure Rodgers has the highest QB rating ever and he has won an MVP.

Not quite sure what more you want out of him than that. Seems about as good as it gets to me.

Kerb Hohl · Post #14 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:24 pm

I'm trying to come up with a list here, I'd say of current NFL coaches, only Sean Payton, BB, and Harbaugh haven't gotten this treatment from fans. Maybe Peyton Manning, too, but his teams that he coaches are normally called out by fans for choking in the playoffs.

What's a more imaginative/better offense? I'd maybe say one coached by BB, Peyton Manning, Sean Payton, or Chip Kelly have concrete evidence. Maybe Trestman.

And by the way, Belichick is a defensive guy. Almost every one of his offensive coordinators has gone elsewhere and looked like an idiot. I'm not so sure he's immune to what we see out of McCarthy and the fans' opinion.

Ron Swanson · Post #15 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:33 pm

Mags FTW wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:McCarthy has gotten quality QB play out of Scott Tolzien

Really? Was that the game he threw two picks, three picks, or got benched?

Is an undrafted QB throwing a couple boneheaded interceptions in his first two starts all of sudden the coach's fault now? Huh, could've sworn that he threw for nearly 300 yards and completed over 60% of his passes in both his starts in McCarthy's system. But by all means, I'm sure a better coach could have gotten him to throw 350+ yards, 4 TDs, no picks and make him look like the second coming of Montana....

I mean, he's no Matt Flynn.

Kerb Hohl · Post #16 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:35 pm

Mags FTW wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:McCarthy has gotten quality QB play out of Scott Tolzien

Really? Was that the game he threw two picks, three picks, or got benched?

Tolzien didn't play incredible, but he threw for 300+ yards in one of those games and I think he looked OK in one of the other ones.

Tell Sean Payton he has to start Scott Tolzien for 3 games. How many combined INTs does he throw? Zero? One? Does Peyton call some magical set of plays where Tolzien doesn't throw a slant that JPP leaps up and picks out of the air? Does he have things set so that Tolzien doesn't throw one up for grabs down 14 with a minute to go?

Newz · Post #17 » by **Newz** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:36 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Is an undrafted QB throwing boneheaded interceptions in his first two starts all of sudden the coach's fault now? Huh, could've sworn that he threw for nearly 300 yards and completed over 60% of his passes in both his starts in McCarthy's system. But by all means, I'm sure a better coach could have gotten him to throw 350+ yards, 4 TDs, no picks and make him look like the second coming of Montana....

I mean, he's no Matt Flynn.

I think it's just a difference in expectations amongst certain people.

I was actually impressed with Tolzien. I wouldn't mind giving him a year or two to develop under McCarthy. People need to remember that he was signed at the start of the year. He didn't get QB school, he didn't get training camp or even most of the preseason. Given all of that I actually think McCarthy had him looking pretty impressive out there.

Ron Swanson · Post #18 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:43 pm

Newz wrote:
I think it's just a difference in expectations amongst certain people.

I was actually impressed with Tolzien. I wouldn't mind giving him a year or two to develop under McCarthy. People need to remember that he was signed at the start of the year. He didn't get QB school, he didn't get training camp or even most of the preseason. Given all of that I actually think McCarthy had him looking pretty impressive out there.

I think that Tolzien's ceiling is a solid back up, so yeah I agree. It will be interesting to see how he looks with a full offseason in McCarthy's QB school.

Mags FTW · Post #19 » by **Mags FTW** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:43 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
Mags FTW wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:McCarthy has gotten quality QB play out of Scott Tolzien

Really? Was that the game he threw two picks, three picks, or got benched?

Is an undrafted QB throwing a couple boneheaded interceptions in his first two starts all of sudden the coach's fault now? Huh, could've sworn that he threw for nearly 300 yards and completed over 60% of his passes in both his starts in McCarthy's system. But by all means, I'm sure a better coach could have gotten him to throw 350+ yards, 4 TDs, no picks and make him look like the second coming of Montana....

I mean, he's no Matt Flynn.

The QB's #1 priority is to protect the football. Romo had 358 yards and 2 TDs on Sunday, but what do most people remember about him from that game?

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #20 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:45 pm

Mags FTW wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
Mags FTW wrote:Really? Was that the game he threw two picks, three picks, or got benched?

Is an undrafted QB throwing a couple boneheaded interceptions in his first two starts all of sudden the coach's fault now? Huh, could've sworn that he threw for nearly 300 yards and completed over 60% of his passes in both his starts in McCarthy's system. But by all means, I'm sure a better coach could have gotten him to throw 350+ yards, 4 TDs, no picks and make him look like the second coming of Montana....

I mean, he's no Matt Flynn.

The QB's #1 priority is to protect the football. Romo had 358 yards and 2 TDs on Sunday, but what do most people remember about him from that game?

Yep, Tolzien may have better "tools" to be an effective QB in the league, but that doesn't mean **** if he can't avoid turning the ball over. Flynn is much more trustworthy in that regard and that is why he is more successful despite the lack of arm strength and general athleticism.